Re: Salary Research for Negotiation

Author	All Replies
OHN join:2003-02-05 Appleton, WI kudos:1 3 edits	reply to Oedipus Re: Salary Research for Negotiation Currently it is 80k, which appears to be a little below the median if I was only a call center manager. When comparing to a Help Desk Manager, the difference is huge.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-10 01:55:26 ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI Reviews: ·Comcast ·Callcentric ·Site5.com	I am assuming you are living in Los Angeles, CA? What certifications do you have? What is your level of education? How long have you been in the industry? These three questions also drive salary as well. -- My domain - Nightfall.net
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-10 10:27:33 ·

OHN join:2003-02-05 Appleton, WI kudos:1 1 edit	No certifications. Highest level is high school. I have on the job training. I have been doing this specific function for 10 years (at this company. I have about 15+ years in tech) now (Banking 17+ years). Yes, I live in Los Angeles. Again, keep in mind, I have a peer in my same area that does the same managerial functions as me (managing call center), minus the technical area and is of a higher level/pay. I can do what she can do, but she cannot do what I do. Ironically, it almost looks like having the technical expertise hurts me.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-10 12:30:35 ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI Reviews: ·Comcast ·Callcentric ·Site5.com	said by OHN: No certifications. Highest level is high school. I have on the job training. I have been doing this specific function for 10 years now (Banking 17+ years). Yes, I live in Los Angeles. Again, keep in mind, I have a peer in my same area that does the same managerial functions as me (managing call center), minus the technical area and is of a higher level/pay. I can do what she can do, but she cannot do what I do. Ironically, it almost looks like having the technical expertise hurts me. Actually, what hurts you the worst is that you have no certs and no degree. What does your peer have in terms of a degree or certifications? What about your peer's experience level? I know these questions have been asked already, but I thought I would mention them again because they are important. If your peer has a college degree or certifications along with the same experience level you have, then that would answer the pay disparity. -- My domain - Nightfall.net
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-10 14:20:36 ·
OHN join:2003-02-05 Appleton, WI kudos:1 1 edit	They dont have any degrees. Also, their focus is banking only while mine is banking and all the hats I wear technology wise. For the last 10 years I have been here, this person has been below me 5 years. It was not until recently they were promoted and to a level which is higher than mine. Their title is simply called Center Manager.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-10 19:48:41 ·
Kilroy Premium,MVM join:2002-11-21 Ann Arbor, MI	reply to OHN said by OHN: No certifications. Highest level is high school. I have on the job training. I'm going to tell you what you don't want to hear. The lack of a college degree is why you are paid less. This is the same issue I have. The company I work for requires a degree for the position I was working as a contractor. When they decided to hire me and found out I didn't have a degree (or more accurately no college eduction) I was hired in a lower position. As my brother put it, they would rather have a two year degree rather than 15 years of experience. I have since started college and was promoted to the position as I am working on a degree. I'm not rushing to get it, one class a semester, but it is what they want. -- “Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” ¯ Robert A. Heinlein
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 10:48:59 ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI Reviews: ·Comcast ·Callcentric ·Site5.com	This would make sense if his peer had a college degree and certs. According to the OP, his peer doesn't have those things. You are right though. I have seen many talented people who are not paid as much if you don't have the sheepskin or the certifications to backup your knowledge. I know a very talented network and support engineer who hasn't made over 50k in his career because he has no certs or degree and with 10 years of experience. These days, its just too easy to find someone with 10 years of experience with a degree and certs and pay them more. -- My domain - Nightfall.net
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 11:49:20 ·
Modus I hate smartassery on forums Premium join:2005-05-02 us Reviews: ·Verizon FiOS 1 edit	said by Nightfall: These days, its just too easy to find someone with 10 years of experience with a degree and certs and pay them more. I tell you for a fact that this doesn't apply where i am and may be the same in other areas -- Think Ahead. Learn More. Solve Now!
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 12:32:17 ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI Reviews: ·Comcast ·Callcentric ·Site5.com	said by Modus: said by Nightfall: These days, its just too easy to find someone with 10 years of experience with a degree and certs and pay them more. I tell you for a fact that this doesn't apply where i am and may be the same in other areas Depends on your location I guess. In most major cities, there are a lot of talented IT people out there. I know when we were looking for a Network Admin, we got hit with a bunch of resumes. The top 3 candidates selected all had 5+ years experience, a 4 year degree in IT, and certifications ranging from MCP, CCNA, and MCITP. We easily bypassed people with the same experience with no degree or no certs. -- My domain - Nightfall.net
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 13:56:47 ·
Modus I hate smartassery on forums Premium join:2005-05-02 us Reviews: ·Verizon FiOS	said by Nightfall: said by Modus: said by Nightfall: These days, its just too easy to find someone with 10 years of experience with a degree and certs and pay them more. I tell you for a fact that this doesn't apply where i am and may be the same in other areas Depends on your location I guess. In most major cities, there are a lot of talented IT people out there. I know when we were looking for a Network Admin, we got hit with a bunch of resumes. The top 3 candidates selected all had 5+ years experience, a 4 year degree in IT, and certifications ranging from MCP, CCNA, and MCITP. We easily bypassed people with the same experience with no degree or no certs. I'm in a major city and recently just went through the same thing but i found that in our case those resumes looked great but once those people were bought in for interviews the knowledge level didn't match what was on the resume. -- Think Ahead. Learn More. Solve Now!
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 14:27:13 ·
OHN join:2003-02-05 Appleton, WI kudos:1	reply to Nightfall With all do respect, I have worked on many occasions with people that have these certificates and have come to found out it does not necessarily indicate they know what they are doing. I do however recognize it would not hurt me to get them. That may be something for me to shoot for in the future.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 17:50:17 ·
Oedipus join:2005-05-09 kudos:1 Reviews: ·Comcast	said by OHN: With all do respect, I have worked on many occasions with people that have these certificates and have come to found out it does not necessarily indicate they know what they are doing. I do however recognize it would not hurt me to get them. That may be something for me to shoot for in the future. It matters to the hiring people. That's the only reason why a lot of IT people have any certifications at all.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 18:41:52 ·
OHN join:2003-02-05 Appleton, WI kudos:1	I agree with you. That is how it is in general. My point though is that if someone is afforded the opportunity and gains the real world experiance, that does account for something. In my case I am confident it is not related to the lack of certifications. It is more due to lack of understanding of my manager. I will make it one of my goals to obtain the certifications at least. Having them and real world experiance should make me an even stronger candidate.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-11 19:40:52 ·
Wily_One Premium join:2002-11-24 San Jose, CA	In the real world things like hiring and salary increase decisions do not depend solely on "hard" attributes like qualifications and experience; there is also the "soft" traits such as likeability, personality, etc. Could be your management just likes her more than you. Could be she is more sociable, "shmoozing" with the uppers and thus getting noticed more, which leads to a more favorable impression, and so on. As is often the case, your contributions on the tech side prevent problems from reaching upper management, if they are even noticed at all. Your work is thus under their radar. This is a potential pitfall in organizations that do not know how much a good tech saves them. They can't appreciate what they are not aware of.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-12 00:58:51 ·
Modus I hate smartassery on forums Premium join:2005-05-02 us Reviews: ·Verizon FiOS	said by Wily_One: In the real world things like hiring and salary increase decisions do not depend solely on "hard" attributes like qualifications and experience; there is also the "soft" traits such as likeability, personality, etc. Could be your management just likes her more than you. Could be she is more sociable, "shmoozing" with the uppers and thus getting noticed more, which leads to a more favorable impression, and so on. +1 this something that never gets mentioned but behind closed doors it comes during the conversation. We had to fill a opening for finance director and one of the candidates was the assistant finance director, long story short she didn't get the job because the lack of soft skills. -- Think Ahead. Learn More. Solve Now!
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-12 11:20:27 ·
AVD Respice, Adspice, Prospice Premium join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ kudos:1	reply to Wily_One said by Wily_One: "shmoozing" with the uppers and thus getting noticed is that what they are calling it these days? -- * seek help if having trouble coping --Standard disclaimers apply.--
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-12 11:20:42 ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI Reviews: ·Comcast ·Callcentric ·Site5.com	reply to OHN said by OHN: With all do respect, I have worked on many occasions with people that have these certificates and have come to found out it does not necessarily indicate they know what they are doing. I do however recognize it would not hurt me to get them. That may be something for me to shoot for in the future. Certifications, a degree, and past experience are no indications that people know what they are doing. The only way you know if people know what they are doing is to have them do it and you see that they can do something. In this world though, with the job market so tight, as someone who does hiring in IT I can tell you that the first thing I look for is a candidate strong in all three areas. It is easy to find people strong in all three areas right now. Its a buyers market out there. Don't discount the strength of certifications and a degree because you don't have one. Odds are you are not getting the big payday because those two areas are areas of weakness on your resume. -- My domain - Nightfall.net
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-12 15:34:07 ·
Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI Reviews: ·Comcast ·Callcentric ·Site5.com	reply to Wily_One said by Wily_One: In the real world things like hiring and salary increase decisions do not depend solely on "hard" attributes like qualifications and experience; there is also the "soft" traits such as likeability, personality, etc. Could be your management just likes her more than you. Could be she is more sociable, "shmoozing" with the uppers and thus getting noticed more, which leads to a more favorable impression, and so on. As is often the case, your contributions on the tech side prevent problems from reaching upper management, if they are even noticed at all. Your work is thus under their radar. This is a potential pitfall in organizations that do not know how much a good tech saves them. They can't appreciate what they are not aware of. I agree with this as well. Personality and attitude are so important. -- My domain - Nightfall.net
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-12 15:35:41 ·
AVD Respice, Adspice, Prospice Premium join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ kudos:1	said by Nightfall: said by Wily_One: As is often the case, your contributions on the tech side prevent problems from reaching upper management, if they are even noticed at all. Your work is thus under their radar. This is a potential pitfall in organizations that do not know how much a good tech saves them. They can't appreciate what they are not aware of. I agree with this as well. Personality and attitude are so important. The most highly mobile managers in every organization I've worked for are the ones that know how to get credit for the work they do, even if other do more and take that kind of work for granted. I can't tell you how many artificial fires I've seen put out that I could do in 30 minutes from home. -- * seek help if having trouble coping --Standard disclaimers apply.--
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-13 08:52:36 ·
Wily_One Premium join:2002-11-24 San Jose, CA	reply to AVD said by AVD: said by Wily_One: "shmoozing" with the uppers and thus getting noticed is that what they are calling it these days? heh - well I was trying to be more politically correct than saying "kiss ass". How about "sycophant"?
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-13 16:58:11 ·

OS and Software > No, I Will Not Fix Your #@$!! Computer > Salary Research for Negotiation