dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
16
share rss forum feed


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: [FiOS] Frontier FiOS customers falling further and further b

said by ITALIAN926:

Where is this announcement for Gbps?

»www.techworld.com.au/article/445···it_fios/

Meanwhile, the company has a platform in place to increase the speed of FiOS to 1 Gbps to homes, McAdam said. The company has more than 5 million FiOS customers now. A version of the service with 300M bps speed came out last year. Not to leave out enterprises, McAdam said Verizon would offer 100G bps speeds, which already connect most major U.S. cities, in its metro Ethernet networks to boost the speed companies can get.


--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
quote:
the company has a platform in place to increase the speed of FiOS to 1 Gbps to homes, McAdam said.
All that means is they have the network in place to offer Gbps, which is true being 100% fiber. The network can support Tbps, it doesnt mean youre gonna see it. Id be shocked if they upgrade beyond GPON this year.

quote:
My MISunderstanding is they will not renew their contract with Verizon but go with AT&T U-Verse instead.
Uverse is a completely different architecture, they will not replace their current FTTP with FTTN. They may replicate Uverse in other areas, but they surely wont scrap FTTP for FTTN.

wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000
All that chawk has posted is pretty much accurate. Plans ARE in place to replace BPON equipment with GPON equipment.

Yes, that does involve a massive undertaking of replacing every BPON ONT.
I will go so far as to say that the manufacturer is Calix and that company has even designed their ONT to fit into existing Tellabs ONT closures.

Frontier has a number of areas that are already GPON served. The largest office in Oregon - Beaverton, has had both GPON and BPON equipment for years.

"Italian926's" misunderstanding is that U-verse video product is dependent on an FTTN DSL architecture. U-verse can and already does run over FTTP.

Frontier will be terminating their agreement to recieve the linear video product from Verizon soon. Don't ask me when because at one point it was a July 2012 deadline until it was extended.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
quote:
U-verse can and already does run over FTTP.
That statement makes NO SENSE whatsoever.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
He's talking about U-Verse Lightspeed, which is a Fiber to the Home flavor of U-Verse which is closer to FiOS than DSL for delivery.

wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000
reply to ITALIAN926
Not quite sure what makes no sense to you.

AT&T has fiber to the home (fttp) in some areas. Their u-verse iptv video product is deployed over this network.

Frontier is looking to deploy some variation of u-verse over their fttp and conceivably the DSL network as well.

Not quite sure what makes no sense to you.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
Wow, Uverse uses FTTP? Didnt know that. Exactly what percentage of Uverse subscribers are FTTP? .01% ? Who has more FTTP customers, Comcast, AT&T or Google?

and btw, if Frontier does adopt GPON or better widespread, not all ONT's get replaced, that would not be economical at all. They would install them on new and upgrading customers.


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
said by ITALIAN926:

Wow, Uverse uses FTTP? Didnt know that. Exactly what percentage of Uverse subscribers are FTTP? .01% ? Who has more FTTP customers, Comcast, AT&T or Google?

Based on what I know of AT&T's network, Frontier has more FTTP subscribers than AT&T's U-Verse. ("FTTP subscriber" means someone served by fiber to their house, which AT&T does for greenfield U-Verse deployments. There is an ONT at those houses that does exactly what ours do: outputs a copper service.)

I suspect that the July 2012 deadline for linear video was a "deadline" for some sort of strategic partnership to get someone else to provide video service to Frontier's customers, thus not breaking all of those franchise agreements they didn't get out of. Since virtually every "cancel by" date has passed for Frontier in Washington state, they're stuck with the franchises. Since no one, including AT&T, wanted to do a video-only service on someone else's network, my theory is that linear video will remain as-is until management either figures out how to get out of the franchise agreements entirely (possible, but not likely, given how revenue-strapped some of these cities are) or the FiOS service goes back to Verizon.

Frontier FiOS going back to Verizon has been a theory of mine for the past few months, based on actions visible in the public sphere and the latest one has come to pass: First, the Reverse Morris Trust deadline that Verizon used to foist our areas onto Frontier has now passed. Those assets can be used in an RMT again without penalty. Second, Frontier now has business and customer service offices open in every market where Verizon does copper and FiOS, but with copper on a greater scale (e.g. semi-rural Texas). Third, at least in Texas, Verizon's copper service is being provided by GTE Southwest d/b/a Verizon Southwest of Texas, a regulated utility, which no longer officially provisions dial-tone services over the FiOS networks owned by Verizon Infrastructure. In one of Verizon's latest SEC filings, they continued to downplay the role of their copper network.

All of this added together means that Verizon is in a position to "trade back" for its former FiOS areas, leaving Frontier saddled with the debt Frontier incurred to take them along with the copper markets. Ergo, Frontier gets to do just copper (like it wants), and Verizon gets back FiOS markets in regions that would be wildly popular if not for the build-out costs in those relatively small areas. At least in Puget Sound, Verizon Wireless and Xfinity can still continue their partnership unabated because Seattle is covered by Comcast but not Frontier.

(Why did Verizon force Frontier to take the FiOS systems that Frontier obviously didn't want? My theory is to make the deal more palpable to Frontier shareholders... "We're getting an advanced network, too!")

wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

and btw, if Frontier does adopt GPON or better widespread, not all ONT's get replaced, that would not be economical at all. They would install them on new and upgrading customers.

No. You misunderstood my original post.

All BPON customers will be force migrated to GPON beginning sometime this year.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
That doesnt make any sense at all. Why would they waste all that equipment? Frontier is already having enough trouble making money, so they will migrate people unnecessarily? Please explain why it would be necessary to move ALL existing customers to GPON.


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
reply to wasvznowftr
said by wasvznowftr:

No. You misunderstood my original post.

All BPON customers will be force migrated to GPON beginning sometime this year.

That would be the height of lunacy. The ONT that they installed for me ~3 months ago would be replaced? Even Verizon doesn't do this and they actively market services that require GPON. A BPON ONT will still work with GPON equipment.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
BPON ont's do not work on GPON CO equipment, the point is Frontier would not switch all customers off of BPON to GPON. Imagine having to revisit all customers, its absurd. People will get GPON as new customers or when they upgrade their speeds.

wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000
said by ITALIAN926:

BPON ont's do not work on GPON CO equipment, the point is Frontier would not switch all customers off of BPON to GPON. Imagine having to revisit all customers, its absurd. People will get GPON as new customers or when they upgrade their speeds.

Sorry, italian.

Didn't know you had so much information.

See, chawk and I both work for Frontier in the Everett, WA Northwest HQ where the vast majority of Frontier's FiOS customers are served (Washington and Oregon) and thought we were being helpful by dropping some inside info.

But clearly you have more information than we do. I'll keep an eye on this and other threads to learn more from the users here. That way the next time I get a company email or have some director tell my department in a meeting what the future plans are , I'll know they're just full of it.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
LMAO, you have a paypal account? You want to BET Frontier does not migrate everyone off BPON? If they did make such a ludicrous choice, you should start sending out your resume to other companies.

Replacing not only ALL customers ONT's but CO PON cards as well. Then you have situations where ONT's are located within someones home, and you have to inconvenience the customer as well. Absurd.

BPON can handle 50Mbps per sub, possibly more, yet Frontier will force migrate everyone to GPON when like 90% of their overall footprint is still copper?


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
reply to wasvznowftr
said by wasvznowftr:

See, chawk and I both work for Frontier in the Everett, WA Northwest HQ where the vast majority of Frontier's FiOS customers are served (Washington and Oregon) and thought we were being helpful by dropping some inside info.

But clearly you have more information than we do. I'll keep an eye on this and other threads to learn more from the users here. That way the next time I get a company email or have some director tell my department in a meeting what the future plans are , I'll know they're just full of it.

Italian sure does have a way with words.

Your managers may be giving you accurate information, and they probably are. Personally, I have no reason to suspect that your managers are lying to you. The question still remains: Why would Frontier swap all currently-deployed BPON equipment for GPON when they are both 1) still installing new BPON equipment in customer environments and 2) there would be no benefit to doing so based on the current service offering?

I sincerely, fervently hope that Frontier actually is going to convert the entire network to GPON. I really, really want you to be right. Why? We might get 300/65.

EdmondsFios

join:2010-09-02
Edmonds, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit
reply to wasvznowftr
If Italian926 gets your sense of humor, this is going to become great reading material. I am also thrilled to hear that my new Tivo with Lifetime Service will no longer function with U verse and I will have to suck it up and go back to Comcast - for all my trliple play services.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to wesm
Thank you wes.

For you to GET GPON though, you dont have to convert the entire network ! lol Just add GPON to existing hubs ! Holy moly. A simple concept wasvznowftr managers cant comprehend. lol


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
reply to EdmondsFios
said by EdmondsFios:

If Italian926 gets your sense of humor, this is going to become great reading material. I am also thrilled to hear that my new Tivo with Lifetime Service will no longer function with U verse and I will have to suck it up and go back to Comcast - for all my trliple play services.

Same here. I'm quite familiar with the software U-Verse uses for their TV-over-IP setup. It can be awesome, but AT&T has compressed the video streams so much as to be unwatchable for fast-moving content like sports if there is more than one HD stream going at a residence. I must be the last person on the planet who likes linear video--especially how FiOS does it, whether Frontier or Verizon--its quality and relatively simplicity.


Hawkerbacker

@frontiernet.net
The main thing driving me crazy is you see all the new functionalities occurring with Verizon Fios such as the xbox 360 integration and ios app with Frontier you can't do any of those. It's frustrating knowing the fiber has such capabilities and it just sits there stagnant.


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
said by Hawkerbacker :

The main thing driving me crazy is you see all the new functionalities occurring with Verizon Fios such as the xbox 360 integration and ios app with Frontier you can't do any of those. It's frustrating knowing the fiber has such capabilities and it just sits there stagnant.

If they sent me an ad saying "hey, we've added HBO GO, enabled the Xbox streaming application, and might have even licensed the FiOS live TV app from Verizon, but it'll cost you a three year contract and $15 more per month," I'd sign up for HBO (which I don't currently get due to no HBO GO) and all they ask right now.

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN
reply to ITALIAN926
My grandmother has Uverse over fiber to the house. I saw the orange fiber lines being installed. Fiber is up and down every telephone pole in her neighborhood. Why it's not underground is beyond me.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

1 edit
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Wow, Uverse uses FTTP? Didnt know that. Exactly what percentage of Uverse subscribers are FTTP? .01% ?

Parts of Michigan (maybe other Midwest states which were "formally" (a play on "intensive" purposes*) Ameritech), parts of Teaxas, which was formerly Southwestern Bell Telephone, and parts of California, which was formerly The Pacific Telesis Group. And closer to 1% than 0.01%.

»Bad news! Notice the wording!

In which the OP states it is at least 5% of AT&T customers served by FTTP.

»Is Paxio real? Do they really offer service in San Jose?

Same poster is trying to identify where, in Santa Clara County he can get better FTTP service from another provider.

*"formerly" and "intents and purposes".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
reply to ITALIAN926
I was just reading the other day how people with uverse fiber to the home are getting the same speeds as uverse fiber to the node customers. Apparently they are going to increase speeds soon.

Will this u-verse video service be deployed in west Virginia? Would be nice to have competition here.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by mikedz4:

Will this u-verse video service be deployed in west Virginia?

No. U-Verse is provided by AT&T and as far as I know, there are no AT&T services in WV, just Frontier. AT&T is not likely to "ovebuild" into Frontier territory.

I was just reading the other day how people with uverse fiber to the home are getting the same speeds as uverse fiber to the node customers. Apparently they are going to increase speeds soon.



Where did you read this exactly? I'd like to read about it.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
will frontier provide video services other than wa, or, and in?


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

said by mikedz4:

I was just reading the other day how people with uverse fiber to the home are getting the same speeds as uverse fiber to the node customers. Apparently they are going to increase speeds soon.



Where did you read this exactly? I'd like to read about it.

See the second post I linked above. A (former?) AT&T FTTH user in the AT&T U-verse forum: ConstantineM See Profile. I think also some other user posts in that forum. Apparently AT&T offers an excuse which amounts to: "We don't want our FTTN user base demanding an upgrade to FTTH."
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
reply to mikedz4
said by mikedz4:

will frontier provide video services other than wa, or, and in?

My best guess? It's unlikely.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


pdxhz

@frontiernet.net
reply to mikedz4
About a month ago a tech that stopped by a neighbor's house to do a new Fios internet installation mentioned that Frontier is currently doing IPTV testing in Indiana (select employees only). How that technology could translate into customers beyond the Fios footprint is unclear at this point. How this could reduce Frontier's steep TV programming expense is even more murky.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by pdxhz :

About a month ago a tech that stopped by a neighbor's house to do a new Fios internet installation mentioned that Frontier is currently doing IPTV testing in Indiana (select employees only). How that technology could translate into customers beyond the Fios footprint is unclear at this point. How this could reduce Frontier's steep TV programming expense is even more murky.

IPTV works with VDSL, but the copper loop should ideally be under 1500 feet. Unless some different RT cabinets are available, there will be backlash from neighbors to those cabinets. Do some research on AT&T VRADs (opponents refer to them as, "Lawn 'Fridges").

I don't see how this would reduce programming expense; even if it did, could it offset the expense of installing VRAD cabinets, and conditioning the copper plant?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

quote:
IPTV works with VDSL, but the copper loop should ideally be under 1500 feet. Unless some different RT cabinets are available, there will be backlash from neighbors to those cabinets. Do some research on AT&T VRADs (opponents refer to them as, "Lawn 'Fridges").

I don't see how this would reduce programming expense; even if it did, could it offset the expense of installing VRAD cabinets, and conditioning the copper plant?
Why are you under the assumption that IPTV is restricted to VDSL delivery?