Topic '[Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue? Spa' in forum 'Wireless Service Providers' - dslreports.com

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:54:44 EDT

seagreen posted : I've been asked to review this topic and I've read the entire thing. I see nothing that needs to be edited now - let's keep it that way.

It's an interesting and informative topic and I'd like to see it continue and be a worthwhile discussion for all participants so let's be mindful what we say to each other. Thank you.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 23:02:31 EDT

jcremin posted :

said by robbin:

said by jcremin:

I think the line may have been crossed when his actual privacy policy was posted and analyzed. That would have gotten me defensive too.

Sorry -- I don't buy it. If a member includes a link to their business by way of a sig in every post they make, then that information is fair game.

I'm not saying he was trying to hide it... Just saying that it turned personal at that point and he had every right to defend his practice if he feels it is appropriate, just like you (or anyone else) has a right to defend their position. If one person is supposed to drop it, why aren't you? (and the word "you" is not directed at anyone specific, but at everyone in this case)

I haven't taken a stance for or against the practice, and I suggest everyone get over it. Ok, some are for it and think it is okay. Some are against it and don't think it is okay. Both sides are getting a bit aggressive and that's the point in which this topic becomes useless.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 22:30:32 EDT

robbin posted :

said by jcremin:

I think the line may have been crossed when his actual privacy policy was posted and analyzed. That would have gotten me defensive too.

Sorry -- I don't buy it. If a member includes a link to their business by way of a sig in every post they make, then that information is fair game.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:01:04 EDT

jcremin posted :

said by robbin:

I don't see any direct attacks against anyone even after rereading the thread.

said by TomS_:

gunther_01 posted 3 times before anyone quoted him and the 2nd and 3rd posts were basically defence defence defence.

I don't plan to get any more involved in this thread other than to say that I thought the first few replies were more explanatory than anything. I think the line may have been crossed when his actual privacy policy was posted and analyzed. That would have gotten me defensive too.

I can see a bit of defense in the posts even before that happened, but I also see a bit of over-reacting from some people too and it could easily have been construed as an attack on those who do use this product.

Sure, the concerns may be valid, but there's nothing to say that the same thing couldn't happen when using ANY 3rd party DNS, and nobody seems to have a problem with recommending Google's public DNS, or Level 3's DNS, etc.

That's all.....

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:41:08 EDT

TomS_ posted : I only mean natural in the sense of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."

If youre going to have an opinion or be vocal about something, expect attention, some of which you might not like.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:48:29 EDT

gunther_01 posted : I think John has the right idea to be honest.

Tom, No, I don't think it is "natural" to be "picked on". I didn't like some of the wording and insinuations between myself and what others think of this concept. The two are not related in my opinion, even if I choose to use this product.

Yes, I am, and can be defensive. And to be quite honest at least one of those comments (without name or reference) could have gotten someone hit had that been an in-person comment.

While the comments aren't directly rude, or insulting, some can take them that way. Add to that, some didn't even want to hear how the system works. And introduced their own fear mongering in to a company they know nothing about.

To each their own.

And since I had a network outage today, and the owner of said company contacted me to see if we were having an issue with his equipment, I'll send him a note about this thread in case he wishes to get involved or clarify anything. But I am out of it.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:05:11 EDT

John Galt posted : *ignores thread*

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:59:59 EDT

TomS_ posted : To be fair, unwired also said they used it, but they left it at that and were never mentioned or quoted afterwards.

gunther_01 posted 3 times before anyone quoted him (yeah, I was the first, and it was a joke hence the big grinning smiley) and the 2nd and 3rd posts were basically defence defence defence.

edit: actually I see bburley quoted some text before me, but not using the quote tags, so I missed it

Its only natural that he has been picked on when he has been so vocal, just has people have hit back at me because Ive been somewhat vocal too. But this is adult discussion, we are all professionals, and no one is deliberately trying to be insulting towards anyone... right?

It has been a heated discussion, the most heated I have been involved in in the WISP forum that is for sure! Clearly this is a big issue to everyone involved, and from all sides of the fence.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:58:30 EDT

robbin posted : I don't see any direct attacks against anyone even after rereading the thread.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:46:29 EDT

jcremin posted :

said by TomS_:

I wasnt getting at that. I just cant understand why you seem to be taking it almost personally when as you say you have nothing to do with them.

I've kept out of this topic so far because I can see it being a fine line, but there were direct attacks towards gunther_01 after he did admit to using it, and I can absolutely understand why he has been forced to be defensive about it.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:25:22 EDT

gunther_01 posted : I take insults personally.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:22:10 EDT

TomS_ posted : I wasnt getting at that. I just cant understand why you seem to be taking it almost personally when as you say you have nothing to do with them.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:37:45 EDT

gunther_01 posted : I think when people start throwing some names, and insinuations around, people get defensive.

I don't have any interest in the company if that is what you are getting at.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:24:30 EDT

TomS_ posted :

said by gunther_01:

Does your policy tell all of your customers that they are getting screwed by Google every time they type "google"? No it doesn't, does it.

The thing is, they are doing that voluntarily, and are quite free to leave and use another search engine if they really do feel like they are being "screwed."

Whereas you have opted all of your customers in to a scheme they have no idea is even running. It may take pure chance for someone to discover it depending on how technical they are, and then they have to request to opt out.

Theres a big difference...

Anyway, I dont know why you are so staunchly defensive of these guys. No one put you on trial here. You could have left it at "I use them and have no problem with it"...

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:20:56 EDT

gunther_01 posted :

said by OHSrob:

said by gunther_01:

And my policy is NOT going to say anything about it, because we aren't giving out any personal information about our customers. Does your policy tell all of your customers that they are getting screwed by Google every time they type "google"? No it doesn't, does it.

I sure would tell my customers if every domain name they resolve could be logged by a third party without my or their consent.

But it isn't. Only the websites of a retailer (that the customer is going to anyway) is..

I am content with the wordage in my contract with them. What they are doing, how, and for what reasons.. I am not out of line, nor going to play the devil's advocate when I have a contract that states otherwise to what this group is claiming can, is, or would be done with this information. You don't like the idea, that's fine with me. I happen to like it. It works, and is just fine with my ideals and my privacy policy to my customers.

It is a far cry better than what a lot of other companies do with your private information. And lets keep in mind, NOTHING you do on the Internet is secure, and private, unless it's via SSL. There is NO reasonable method of privacy inferred on the web. If your privacy policy states that there is, you should probably change yours before griping about mine.

We don't sell, or give our your personal, private contact information. And that's enough for me. Look around at businesses you deal with, and check out how many do just that. It's more than you realize.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:21:06 EDT

raytaylor posted :

said by robbin:

said by gunther_01:

Does your policy tell all of your customers that they are getting screwed by Google every time they type "google"? No it doesn't, does it.

My job is to provide access. What they do with it and any sites they go to is none of my business. What does Google have to do with my customers connection to the World Wide Web other than being an address on it?

I have never cared about cookies. I never cared if a google wanted to track the websites i go to so they can target adwords or adchoices to me.

But recently in the last 2 months i have REALLY noticed it. I see ads everywhere on sites that are related to things i have recently done research on.
For example - adverts in gmail used to be based on the email i was reading or with adwords on a website, it was based on the content of that site.

I spent three days researching solar controller and grid tie systems. For the next three weeks, adwords and others started displaying solar equipment adverts. Across multiple websites and gmail, unrelated to solar stuff.

That, to be honest, annoyed me. But for no reason other than i am annoyed that they are 'watching me' - even though "they" is just an algorithm in some cloud somewhere. It felt like something was being targeted directly at me.

Now take DNS logs from my dns server, filter them by my ip address, and suddenly you have an alternative to using cookies. You can see what websites i visit and crawl them for subject matter.
Then check cookies to see if anyone else is using my ip address in my home with different surfing patterns and you could send targeted advertisments via adwords or other networks based on my ip address.

You could also start messing with my traffic in subtle ways:
For example
Whenever i visit google, i could be sent to a google proxy that shows a replica of google homepage, but the submit button is tied to the rogue website's google search affiliate code.

We use some software in our internet cafe called handycafe. Its free internet cafe software - but it redirects google's homepage on the pc in a similar way as the above examples. Whenever you search for something, the first three results are always adwords advertisments which is how handycafe make their money.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:34:08 EDT

robbin posted :

said by gunther_01:

Does your policy tell all of your customers that they are getting screwed by Google every time they type "google"? No it doesn't, does it.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:15:35 EDT

OHSrob posted :

said by gunther_01:

I sure would tell my customers if every domain name they resolve could be logged by a third party without my or their consent.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:31:47 EDT

gunther_01 posted : And my policy is NOT going to say anything about it, because we aren't giving out any personal information about our customers. Does your policy tell all of your customers that they are getting screwed by Google every time they type "google"? No it doesn't, does it.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 17:48:58 EDT

OHSrob posted : Gunther your privacy policy (»www.wirelessdatanet.net/privacy.html) makes no mention of you using a third party advertising company (Cash4Trafik) for DNS.

I feel this is something you should tell your customers/future customers. Even if you just make it so if they want to opt out tell them to use a third party DNS service such as level3's (4.2.2.4) or googles (8.8.8.8).

You owe it to your customers to be up front with them about your policy's.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 17:43:48 EDT

bburley posted : When I said I wasn't going to take sides, I meant that I wasn't going to declare this particular company any more evil than what it says it is doing.

But I do agree with BlueC, and I would not attach this type of company to the network that I look after.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:00:29 EDT

BlueC posted :

said by gunther_01:

Except I'm some how selling my soul by making money.. That's alright though?

I would say bburley has it the most accurate. We are getting paid by allowing the retailer to gather marketing data from our customers. NOT, sell them more, via pop up ads. Not sending them to web sites they don't or didn't want to go to in the first place.

The premise is sound. It's sponsored by the retailer the customer is using anyway. And it doesn't violate any kind of privacy act in any way, because we aren't allowing anyone access to personal information. Only the company who already knows about the purchase (since you are buying from them any way) knows anything personal about you and/or your purchase. AND, it can be bypassed if someone doesn't like it by changing DNS servers on their PC.

I feel you are missing the point. You're operating a private network, right? Your customers are leasing access on this said network. These customers assume the traffic traveling over your network is only being monitored/accessed by you as an ISP.

The minute you start allowing 3rd parties to have access to customer data traveling over your network, it opens the door to other things.

I guess we view the role of an ISP differently. I personally believe an ISPs role is to provide their customers with access to the internet and maintaining exactly that. It would be the same as a phone provider allowing 3rd parties to gain access to information of your phone usage. It doesn't sit right with me, I wouldn't do it to my own customers.

That's simply my opinion on the matter. While you may disagree, I would imagine some of your customers would side with my viewpoint.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Tue, 15 Jan 2013 01:32:53 EDT

gunther_01 posted :

said by TomS_:

said by gunther_01:

something you don't understand, nor care to want to understand

Some of us understand it perfectly well. No need to be insulting.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:26:03 EDT

bburley posted : I am not going to take sides on this particular issue. It is certainly possible that this company is not doing anything more evil than tracking sales and accumulating marketing data. What large and/or Internet retailer doesn't do that these days.

What does disturb me is the overall trend. Pressure from stockholders and rising operating costs tend to drive various companies further to the evil side in search of profit. The line that is drawn between a reasonable service and invasive data mining for something new to sell becomes fluid and moveable.

Facebook is just one example. It appears that outrageous Terms of Service are not really defeated, they just take longer to implement. The new phrase "You are the product" seems here to stay.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:27:31 EDT

TomS_ posted :

said by gunther_01:

something you don't understand, nor care to want to understand

Some of us understand it perfectly well. No need to be insulting.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:58:57 EDT

shorthairedp posted : This is not ALL internet traffic, Just traffic to the retailers involved in the affiliate program or whatever it is called. So the retailer is involved. The end user was going to that site anyway.

It doesnt matter anyway, if this wasnt going on, everyone would get the same ad when they go to any page that serves ads, so you are already part of this.

The reality is this is a service to the end user, the end user gets more targeted advertising. I would much prefer I get an ad about something I care about than say an ad for nickel plated shoe horns.

If this was injecting ads into a toolbar without consent that would be a different story and the conspiracy theorists here would be justified, but its just standard operating procedure, at least this way you know who is serving ads to your customer base.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:46:07 EDT

BlueC posted : Oh, we understand.

Just because the large ISPs are taking on similar measures to increase revenue, doesn't make it right.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:13:47 EDT

gunther_01 posted : What you guys CLEARLY miss is this is sponsored by the companies you are buying from online in the first place. It's NOT voodoo.

This has been available to individual customers via similar non-paid- for sponsored websites for a long time now.

Take the same model, and give it to an ISP, and you have something that makes money, without any risk.

We do have a privacy policy. It's very clear, and this doesn't break it one bit.

Now ask all the big ISP's what they are doing in the background with redirects for search engines. Pop up advertisements... Ask Google what they are going with their own ISP and it's advertisement revenues from their customers?...

You guys are clearly grasping at straws over something you don't understand, nor care to want to understand. I'll take my check and be perfectly happy with it, thanks.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:41:00 EDT

OHSrob posted :

said by LLigetfa:

I wonder if that could/should be extended to the use of other DNS services regardless of whether or not you derive revenue from it. I use Google DNS mainly because it is so much faster than my upstream provider's DNS. Does that mean I need to inform all of my hotspot users that Google is mining data from their internet use?

No google is a trustworthy company if they did something really shady they would face legal action. I use googles dns for my third dns server as a forwarder as well. (First upstream, then level3, then google)

This DNS service is extra shady and its clear from the email that prairiesky received I sure wouldn't trust them.

Im starting to get the feeling many of you guy's don't even have a privacy policy or AUP and people here are just winging the whole being an internet service provider thing.

When the guy running this decides he has enough providers using his service and the amazon thing isn't making him enough and he rips off your customers through a fraudulent way way have fun explaining it to your customers.

edit: I just noticed your running a hot-spot, This isn't the same type of business.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:33:02 EDT

TomS_ posted :

said by gunther_01:

Why does it have to be a "scam" when it works

Because the definition of a scam is not "you get bent over a barrel and end up in the gutter", although that might be the stereotypical view of a scam - e.g. the person that loses all of their savings. A scam is simply something that is done "less honestly", lets put it that way.

I suppose the thing that irks me about this system is the irony, the massive blatant irony. Lets take one comment that really says it all:

It is your network, don't let others profit off your customers!

So, whos making profit out of your customers? The very guys who are telling you that you shouldnt be letting it happen!!!

How much are they making out of this compared to you?

said by gunther_01:

Real money, for next to nothing

Except your soul. :D

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:58:55 EDT

gunther_01 posted : I'll try and clear this up just a little bit.
I have used this system both ways. You can have a proxy server (that they provide for free) that watches traffic. And in turn redirects traffic destined for their retailers. Or you can go the DNS route, which essentially does the same thing.

In either case, it doesn't care about the traffic destined any where other than the companies we both get paid from.

Why does it have to be a "scam" when it works. Just because you are skeptical, doesn't mean it's a scam. I get a check each month... Do you? My service isn't slowed down, or act funny when it's on. My customers (for the most part) don't care about it. So what's the problem?

I have referred a hand full of companies to use this system as well. I have no problem trying to explain it. Because, again, I get paid using it, AND I see no issues with it. Be it privacy, or anything else.

From what I understand, it logs an IP, and the retailer. A third party keeps track of the purchase totals so you get paid appropriately. From what I was told, it is simply advertising revenue that is reversed to the networks where the customer comes from. They are trying to track what areas of the country buy what and from where, and if the retailers advertising is working in that area. In turn we get a check.

It has averaged about $.50 per sub per month if it matters to any of you. Real money, for next to nothing on our end, or costs.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:10:05 EDT

unwired posted : I run a smaller network and have been making use of this for about a year - It seems to work well - I've yet to have any dns issues with the customers and it pays. I agree with what some of the other guys on here are saying - I know for a fact Charter is doing things in the background. Basically it does as it says you get paid when end users make purchases at online sites that participate in the affliate system.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:40:50 EDT

bburley posted :


There is nothing that is personally identifiable that is happening guys.

Perhaps with a small amount of effort it could identify you. You would be using the same DNS servers when you retrieved your email, right?

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:10:02 EDT

PSWired posted : Ugh. Just look at how the sales pitch is worded. SCAM SCAM SCAM. You can tell it's bad news right from the start.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:05:59 EDT

gunther_01 posted : There is nothing that is personally identifiable that is happening guys. It's not much more than a cookie for a session to a retailer. In essence, a session is established, it is marked by which ISP it came from, and that's it.

This has been happening for years via other means, and has been available to consumers for a long time.

All the parties involved are separated on purpose, so there isn't any identifiable means to the consumer.

We have no obligation to notify our customers, because we aren't selling their names, or anything personally identifiable to a third party. I don't even know what they are buying. Nor do I have access to it. So far everything has been done as per our agreement, and they have been great to work with.

If you don't like the idea, let someone else make money off of it instead LOL. I do like this idea better than targeted ads that pop up
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:55:54 EDT

prairiesky posted : In terms of privacy, how do you know it's not happening currently with the dns servers you're currently using? I'm sure google is data mining the shit out of 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. I currently use open dns, but there's nothing saying they aren't an evil company either.

I would be worried about unknown companies, but really, how do you know who you can/can't trust?

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:50:32 EDT

robbin posted : I totally agree. I would question the morality of using something like this as well as the legality. I would definitely consider it an intrusion into my customer's private affairs and not something I should be messing with as their "last mile" provider.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:42:06 EDT

BlueC posted :

said by TomS_:

Also I dont like the way they are playing the whole "dont let others profit off your customers" line... What has a customers retail habits got to do with the operation of your network? This is what the net neutrality debate is all about right? Network operators snooping in on customer activity and looking to profit from it.

Well said!

It's my personal belief if you're going to leverage your customer's activity (e.g. viewing what they are doing) for profit, you have a responsibility to inform your customers of such. It might not be legally required, but it's the ethical thing to do.

I don't know of many consumers who would be comfortable with that type of business practice.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:54:51 EDT

TomS_ posted :

said by bburley:

I doubt that it is dns poisoning.

Maybe not now, but it opens up the possibility for it to happen.

Ive done a couple of "digs" through these two DNS servers, and they appear to be handing back legit records for some domains. e.g.

$ dig @50.57.99.138 www.google.com ...;; ANSWER SECTION:www.google.com.         211     IN      A       173.194.73.106www.google.com.         211     IN      A       173.194.73.147www.google.com.         211     IN      A       173.194.73.99www.google.com.         211     IN      A       173.194.73.103www.google.com.         211     IN      A       173.194.73.104www.google.com.         211     IN      A       173.194.73.105

and

$ dig @50.57.99.138 www.microsoft.com ...;; ANSWER SECTION:www.microsoft.com.      704     IN      CNAME   toggle.www.ms.akadns.net.toggle.www.ms.akadns.net. 31    IN      CNAME   g.www.ms.akadns.net.g.www.ms.akadns.net.    31      IN      CNAME   lb1.www.ms.akadns.net.lb1.www.ms.akadns.net.  124     IN      A       65.55.57.27

But if you dig at retailers, you get some different results:

$ dig @50.57.100.29 www.amazon.com ...;; ANSWER SECTION:www.amazon.com.         10800   IN      A       50.56.52.52

Versus my own resolver:

$ dig www.amazon.com ...;; ANSWER SECTION:www.amazon.com.         60      IN      A       176.32.98.166

Traceroute to 50.56.52.52 goes to rackspace, while 176.32.98.166 which belongs to Amazon naturally goes to their network.

Telnet to 50.56.52.52 and ask it for www.amazon.com and it gives you a redirect:

$ telnet 50.56.52.52 80Trying 50.56.52.52...Connected to 50.56.52.52.Escape character is '^]'.GET / HTTP/1.1Host: www.amazon.com HTTP/1.0 302 Moved TemporarilyServer: ApacheCache-Control: no-cache, no-storeDate: Mon Jan  7 20:51:27 2013Location: http://www.amazon.com/?mcenabled=1Pragma: no-cacheConnection: Keep-AliveSet-Cookie: m123gz23523bs=3; domain=www.amazon.com; path=/Content-Length: 0

Ask it again for www.amazon.com with the path as /?mcenabled=1 and you get amazons webpage:

$ telnet 50.56.52.52 80Trying 50.56.52.52...Connected to 50.56.52.52.Escape character is '^]'.GET /?mcenabled=1 HTTP/1.1Host: www.amazon.com HTTP/1.1 200 OKDate: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:42:33 GMT...

Ask amazons own web server for www.amazon.com and it gives it straight up.

Im guessing they are running some kind of proxy server that is looking at what URLs you are browsing to on a retailers domains. Perhaps when you go through certain URLs to make purchases it is able to determine that you bought something, and associate some kind of credit with your account (based on you registering with them and letting them know your IP ranges.)

Pure speculation, but this has potential to be quite evil. MITM attacks with HTTPS capturing bank details??? With all of your DNS going through their servers, poisoning is not out of the question since you are relying on their security, what ever and how ever good it may be...

Also I dont like the way they are playing the whole "dont let others profit off your customers" line... What has a customers retail habits got to do with the operation of your network? This is what the net neutrality debate is all about right? Network operators snooping in on customer activity and looking to profit from it.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:38:21 EDT

LLigetfa posted : I wonder if that could/should be extended to the use of other DNS services regardless of whether or not you derive revenue from it. I use Google DNS mainly because it is so much faster than my upstream provider's DNS. Does that mean I need to inform all of my hotspot users that Google is mining data from their internet use?
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:19:21 EDT

OHSrob posted : I seriously hope any isp running this puts it in their privacy policy that third party advertisers have access to what DNS names they resolve.

If you guy's don't your probably breaking the law. Customer has a right to know you have sold their piracy out.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:43:14 EDT

gunther_01 posted : It works just fine, and as advertised.
--
»www.wirelessdatanet.net

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:22:48 EDT

prairiesky posted : I don't like the idea of another company scoping through my customers dns, but on the other hand i'm intrigued by the idea if I could find a way to control it on my end. Whenever someone else has a way of offering me money for something, I always ask, "why can't i do it myself" ...

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:44:39 EDT

Rhaas posted : I've done business with Solutions 4Ebiz, even had lunch with some of them while I was getting Imagestream training.

I'm sketchy about that offering though. I don't like the offering though. I guess the idea of monkey'ing with customers DNS doesn't sit well with me.
--
I survived Hale-Bopp!

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 04:29:34 EDT

bburley posted : I doubt that it is dns poisoning.

One of the traditional ways for advertisers to track users is spyware. With this method they can track your IP address along with every website you have visited without installing anything on your PC.

They might be able to use a simple cookie to get around NAT issues.

They will probably sell targeted advertising which earns more than random ad delivery.

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:24:49 EDT

TheHox posted : Just DNS poisoning

I tested it out, looks like it use forward.rewardfinds.com, which then uses some affiliate code.

»news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1970802

Re: [Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue?

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:42:33 EDT

robbin posted : Can't find much online about them. According to a LinkedIn profile

»www.linkedin.com/pub/patrick-far···/a03/931

"Responsible for Sales and Implementation of Imagestream Linux Routers, Azotel Billing/OSS, and Cash4Trafik, a product that pays commissions to ISPs when their customers shop online at any of over 1800 affiliate retailers."

Perhaps someone should invite Patrick to come discuss their WISP solution with us. I would be interested in seeing a list of the affiliate retailers as well as exactly how their service works. If it's not a scam then why is there no online information available other than a sales pitch?

[edit] Looks like they are selling or reselling Aspira Networks product

»www.aspiranetworks.com/

[Bus. Ops] Are you an Wireless ISP looking for more revenue? Spa

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:15:04 EDT

prairiesky posted : This isn't spam..... or is it. Has anyone else got this email, The guys name seems familiar, has anyone tried it? Does it pay well?

Thoughts?

Telecoms, Internet Service Providers, Wireless ISPs and Cable Operators,
How can YOU increase your Revenue?

Your customers buy online - Retailers pay you!
It is your network, don't let others profit off your customers!

NO Risk
Completely Free
Complete control to turn on/off anytime
NO Selling of Advertisements
Online portal for you to track your commissions
Signup in minutes!
Add Pure Profit to your bottom line today

Sign-Up Now!

Warning: This is free money.

with NO strings attached.
See the Experience:

Simply put these IP addresses in for your primary and secondary DNS servers on your laptop, go to a web browser, type www.amazon.com into the address bar and hit enter.

Primary DNS: 50.57.99.138
Secondary DNS: 50.57.100.29

The experience you just had is exactly what your customers will experience.

You get paid for purchases made over your network from top affiliate partners.
Click here for more information on the program
Increase your Revenue and Profit in just a few easy steps with Cash4Trafik. Sit back, relax and make more money.

Brought to you by:
Solutions4ebiz
WISPsolutions.com
Cash4Trafik.com
877-666-ebiz (3249)