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robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to LazMan

Re: Doors

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

said by robbin:

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Exterior or interior hinge pins can be removed.

The jam pin with a keyed deadbolt removes that opportunity (at least makes it very hard) to slide/slip/pry the door out.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

Properly installed exterior hinges with non-removable pins would be very hard to remove.

Interior or exterior, security hinge bolts complete the project with the double keyed deadbolt.

»www.amazon.com/SECURITY-HINGE-PL···ge+bolts



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to robbin

said by robbin:

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

For an outswinging door, the hinges are exposed, right? The hinge pins (even in security hinges) are your weak spot - a 5# sledge and a halligan bar will pop the pins in 2-3 hits usually. If, for some reason you can't take the pins, you can always just cut the exposed portion of the hinge off, pin and all. Even with security pins/bolts in the hinge; the door is fairly easily popped - you only need about 1/4" of movement to clear the pin.

Don't get me wrong - the techniques for forced entry I know are effective, not subtle... Pounding with a sledge and halligan, cutting hinges, using a K-tool or slide hammer to remove deadbolts, etc are going to attract a LOT of attention. I'm trained to get in fast, not quietly... LOL


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to mityfowl

said by mityfowl:

said by robbin:

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Exterior or interior hinge pins can be removed.

The jam pin with a keyed deadbolt removes that opportunity (at least makes it very hard) to slide/slip/pry the door out.

It's all about making the thief go to the neighbors.

You can't stop a pro


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

That's pretty much it... Make someone else's house look like an easier target.


ncbill
Premium
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC
reply to jsouth

Jambs remain the weak point for residential exterior doors - usually soft wood, a good kick has the deadbolt rip right through them.

They need to be reinforced top to bottom by pulling off the molding and installing "door jamb armor" (many google hits)



Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to jsouth

Exactly most security is about making the risk not worth the reward to people. Commercial fire code creates a weakness for example. There's no reason to create the same weakness if you don't have too though an inswing door isn't that much better. I guess you could install door bolts on the opposite sides as the hinges that go into the floor/ceiling so when someone tries to kick the door open it's solid. Eventually they'll get in but it might add enough trouble to get them to stop and pick another place.
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!


jsouth
Jsouth

join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS

1 recommendation

reply to jsouth

Well I got a solid core steel door and a storm door that has a deadbolt lock on it as well the screws all go in to the frame of the house and we installed this »ezarmor.com/?dt_catalog=ez-armor-combo-set as well. Also we installed more lights and some cameras around the house. They tried to get into our neighbors house last weekend but they were home in the basement and the loser thieves almost got shot. (dang.) So the neighbors did the same and also put up a mercury vapor light and also put up cameras. Also all the neighbors are starting a neighbor hood watch in the area and we are getting stepped up police patrols. We have even sent the info of all the stolen Items to all the pawn shops in the surrounding towns and as far as Nebraska, Oklahoma and Missouri, through family members. In other words we are mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore. LOL


TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to mityfowl

said by mityfowl:

Alarms do nothing for most people
The police are minutes away when you have seconds

True, since most alarm systems are installed in a way that the alarm can not be heard from outside.

A siren and flashing light on the outside of the house is the way to go. That in itself will be a pretty damned good deterrent. In seconds the whole neighborhood will be alerted. The would-be thief isn't going to stick around.

Just be careful to avoid false alarms!


Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock
reply to jsouth

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKk4woC6ZqM


4:21 for doors already installed....

Beezel

join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV
reply to TheMG

said by TheMG:

said by mityfowl:

Alarms do nothing for most people
The police are minutes away when you have seconds

True, since most alarm systems are installed in a way that the alarm can not be heard from outside.

A siren and flashing light on the outside of the house is the way to go. That in itself will be a pretty damned good deterrent. In seconds the whole neighborhood will be alerted. The would-be thief isn't going to stick around.

Just be careful to avoid false alarms!

When I had my other house the system had a outdoor bull horn siren. when it would go off, traffic on the main road would stop thinking a emergency vehicle would be coming.


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to Draiman

said by Draiman:

... Just go with a standard solid core FIBERGLASS fire-rated 20 minute door...

Becareful with Fiberglass doors, if facing south/southwest sun. I think it was here, someone showed a distorted door from the sun.
--
Splat


Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by cableties:

said by Draiman:

... Just go with a standard solid core FIBERGLASS fire-rated 20 minute door...

Becareful with Fiberglass doors, if facing south/southwest sun. I think it was here, someone showed a distorted door from the sun.

"Wood doors will warp and twist over time because of moisture absorption. Fiberglass doors will never warp or rot in humid climates or cold conditions. Wood doors are almost constantly in need of refinishing and protection from the elements. Fiberglass entry doors need almost no maintenance, even less maintenance than steel doors. Eventually, despite technology's best efforts, steel doors will start to rust if they are not cared for. A lot can be done to inhibit rusting but you still need to maintain steel doors to keep them in like-new condition."
»www.diynetwork.com/windows-walls···dex.html
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!


Chinabound
Premium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3

Before this goes too far off-topic by your suggesting door types the OP didn't appear to be interested in, please explain what moisture damage has to do with possible sun damage to fiberglass doors cableties was referring to.



Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Chinabound:

Before this goes too far off-topic by your suggesting door types the OP didn't appear to be interested in, please explain what moisture damage has to do with possible sun damage to fiberglass doors cableties was referring to.

said by cableties:

Becareful with Fiberglass doors, if facing south/southwest sun. I think it was here, someone showed a distorted door from the sun.

dis·tort verb \di-strt\

Definition of DISTORT
transitive verb
1: to twist out of the true meaning or proportion
2: to twist out of a natural, normal, or original shape or condition
»www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/distort

I have no idea what distorted has to do with wood warping. *double facepalm*
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

1 recommendation

said by Draiman:

I have no idea what distorted has to do with wood warping. *double facepalm*

Not with WOOD, with fiberglass. Fiberglass has highest coefficient of thermal expansion, followed by steel.
A Fiberglass door that faces the sun all day with have thermal bowing (so I used distortion...big whoop! it will not be original shape after thermal expansion...thus distortion could be correct)
Do I need to explain what bowing is? How it affects door sealing?

Ya know. I am just going to not post anymore. I was only suggesting to avoid installing fiberglass doors (like front doors to home) that face direct sun. Nothing about moisture. Nothing about rot.
--
Splat


Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits

said by cableties:

said by Draiman:

I have no idea what distorted has to do with wood warping. *double facepalm*

Not with WOOD, with fiberglass. Fiberglass has highest coefficient of thermal expansion, followed by steel.
A Fiberglass door that faces the sun all day with have thermal bowing (so I used distortion...big whoop! it will not be original shape after thermal expansion...thus distortion could be correct)
Do I need to explain what bowing is? How it affects door sealing?

Ya know. I am just going to not post anymore. I was only suggesting to avoid installing fiberglass doors (like front doors to home) that face direct sun. Nothing about moisture. Nothing about rot.

We know what you tried to say but it was FALSE.

"Variations in temperature from one side of the door to the other can create thermal bowing as recognized by the Door and Hardware Institute as inherent in all materials."

Given the above statement the only differences are rot, moisture, etc. so that was posted to correct the FALSE reference. You suggested avoiding a fiberglass door over something that's inherent to all doors. Even when fiberglass has been proven to fair the BEST out of the door materials. It's the LEAST likely to happen too.

»Re: Steel door vs Fiberglass?
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!