Topic 'Doors' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Doors

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:18:54 EDT

Draiman posted :

I have no idea what distorted has to do with wood warping. *double facepalm*

Not with WOOD, with fiberglass. Fiberglass has highest coefficient of thermal expansion, followed by steel.
A Fiberglass door that faces the sun all day with have thermal bowing (so I used distortion...big whoop! it will not be original shape after thermal expansion...thus distortion could be correct)
Do I need to explain what bowing is? How it affects door sealing?
:p
Ya know. I am just going to not post anymore. I was only suggesting to avoid installing fiberglass doors (like front doors to home) that face direct sun. Nothing about moisture. Nothing about rot.

We know what you tried to say but it was FALSE.

"Variations in temperature from one side of the door to the other can create thermal bowing as recognized by the Door and Hardware Institute as inherent in all materials."

Given the above statement the only differences are rot, moisture, etc. so that was posted to correct the FALSE reference. You suggested avoiding a fiberglass door over something that's inherent to all doors. Even when fiberglass has been proven to fair the BEST out of the door materials. It's the LEAST likely to happen too. :p

»Re: Steel door vs Fiberglass?
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:12:58 EDT

cableties posted :

said by Draiman:

I have no idea what distorted has to do with wood warping. *double facepalm*

Re: Doors

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:56:01 EDT

Draiman posted :

said by Chinabound:

Before this goes too far off-topic by your suggesting door types the OP didn't appear to be interested in, please explain what moisture damage has to do with possible sun damage to fiberglass doors cableties was referring to.

said by cableties:

Becareful with Fiberglass doors, if facing south/southwest sun. I think it was here, someone showed a distorted door from the sun.

dis�tort verb \di-ˈstȯrt\

Definition of DISTORT
transitive verb
1: to twist out of the true meaning or proportion
2: to twist out of a natural, normal, or original shape or condition
»www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/distort

I have no idea what distorted has to do with wood warping. *double facepalm*
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:42:57 EDT

Chinabound posted : Before this goes too far off-topic by your suggesting door types the OP didn't appear to be interested in, please explain what moisture damage has to do with possible sun damage to fiberglass doors cableties was referring to.

Re: Doors

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:47:16 EDT

Draiman posted :

said by cableties:

said by Draiman:

... Just go with a standard solid core FIBERGLASS fire-rated 20 minute door...

Becareful with Fiberglass doors, if facing south/southwest sun. I think it was here, someone showed a distorted door from the sun.

"Wood doors will warp and twist over time because of moisture absorption. Fiberglass doors will never warp or rot in humid climates or cold conditions. Wood doors are almost constantly in need of refinishing and protection from the elements. Fiberglass entry doors need almost no maintenance, even less maintenance than steel doors. Eventually, despite technology's best efforts, steel doors will start to rust if they are not cared for. A lot can be done to inhibit rusting but you still need to maintain steel doors to keep them in like-new condition."
»www.diynetwork.com/windows-walls···dex.html
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:43:03 EDT

cableties posted :

said by Draiman:

... Just go with a standard solid core FIBERGLASS fire-rated 20 minute door...

Becareful with Fiberglass doors, if facing south/southwest sun. I think it was here, someone showed a distorted door from the sun.
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Splat

Re: Doors

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 03:18:45 EDT

Beezel posted :

said by TheMG:

said by mityfowl:

Alarms do nothing for most people
The police are minutes away when you have seconds

True, since most alarm systems are installed in a way that the alarm can not be heard from outside.

A siren and flashing light on the outside of the house is the way to go. That in itself will be a pretty damned good deterrent. In seconds the whole neighborhood will be alerted. The would-be thief isn't going to stick around.

Just be careful to avoid false alarms!

When I had my other house the system had a outdoor bull horn siren. when it would go off, traffic on the main road would stop thinking a emergency vehicle would be coming. :)

Re: Doors

Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:31:47 EDT

Lagz posted :

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKk4woC6ZqM

4:21 for doors already installed....

Re: Doors

Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:37:11 EDT

TheMG posted :

said by mityfowl:

Alarms do nothing for most people
The police are minutes away when you have seconds

Re: Doors

Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:51:00 EDT

jsouth posted : Well I got a solid core steel door and a storm door that has a deadbolt lock on it as well the screws all go in to the frame of the house and we installed this »ezarmor.com/?dt_catalog=ez-armor-combo-set as well. Also we installed more lights and some cameras around the house. They tried to get into our neighbors house last weekend but they were home in the basement and the loser thieves almost got shot. (dang.) So the neighbors did the same and also put up a mercury vapor light and also put up cameras. Also all the neighbors are starting a neighbor hood watch in the area and we are getting stepped up police patrols. We have even sent the info of all the stolen Items to all the pawn shops in the surrounding towns and as far as Nebraska, Oklahoma and Missouri, through family members. In other words we are mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore. LOL

Re: Doors

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:21:27 EDT

Draiman posted : Exactly most security is about making the risk not worth the reward to people. Commercial fire code creates a weakness for example. There's no reason to create the same weakness if you don't have too though an inswing door isn't that much better. I guess you could install door bolts on the opposite sides as the hinges that go into the floor/ceiling so when someone tries to kick the door open it's solid. Eventually they'll get in but it might add enough trouble to get them to stop and pick another place.
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:05:28 EDT

ncbill posted : Jambs remain the weak point for residential exterior doors - usually soft wood, a good kick has the deadbolt rip right through them.

They need to be reinforced top to bottom by pulling off the molding and installing "door jamb armor" (many google hits)

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:10:39 EDT

LazMan posted : That's pretty much it... Make someone else's house look like an easier target.

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:57:04 EDT

mityfowl posted :

said by mityfowl:

said by robbin:

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Exterior or interior hinge pins can be removed.

The jam pin with a keyed deadbolt removes that opportunity (at least makes it very hard) to slide/slip/pry the door out.

It's all about making the thief go to the neighbors.

You can't stop a pro

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:15:00 EDT

LazMan posted :

said by robbin:

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

For an outswinging door, the hinges are exposed, right? The hinge pins (even in security hinges) are your weak spot - a 5# sledge and a halligan bar will pop the pins in 2-3 hits usually. If, for some reason you can't take the pins, you can always just cut the exposed portion of the hinge off, pin and all. Even with security pins/bolts in the hinge; the door is fairly easily popped - you only need about 1/4" of movement to clear the pin.

Don't get me wrong - the techniques for forced entry I know are effective, not subtle... Pounding with a sledge and halligan, cutting hinges, using a K-tool or slide hammer to remove deadbolts, etc are going to attract a LOT of attention. I'm trained to get in fast, not quietly... LOL

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:41:43 EDT

robbin posted : Properly installed exterior hinges with non-removable pins would be very hard to remove.

Interior or exterior, security hinge bolts complete the project with the double keyed deadbolt.

»www.amazon.com/SECURITY-HINGE-PL···ge+bolts

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:15:44 EDT

mityfowl posted :

said by robbin:

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Exterior or interior hinge pins can be removed.

The jam pin with a keyed deadbolt removes that opportunity (at least makes it very hard) to slide/slip/pry the door out.

Re: Doors

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:06:27 EDT

robbin posted :

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:56:12 EDT

mityfowl posted : As one who has been robbed in a nice neighborhood this is what I learned.

A good door is a deterrent. Double keyed dead bolts are great if you don't have small children.
Install a floor safe outside the master bedroom
You can't stop a pro
Alarms do nothing for most people
The police are minutes away when you have seconds
Make the thief want to go next door
Use 2.5" or longer wood screws to secure the striker plate and hinge plates
Use liquid nails to secure all wood to wood surfaces. use 2.5" screws to secure these surfaces and use opposing angles
Use pins on exterior doors (from the hinge door to the jam) to keep anyone from removing hinges

I could add big dog, gun and don't be prey but...

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:11 EDT

TheMG posted :

said by nonymous:

Is that true picking?

The accepted definition of lock picking is the action of manipulating the tumblers inside the lock, to get it to unlock the same as if the proper key had been inserted.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:39:01 EDT

LazMan posted : Apples and Oranges argument about the safety of inward vs. outward swing doors...

Emergency exits are required to be out swinging so that in a panic or emergency situation, a crush of people trying to get out won't prevent the door from opening.

Regular entrance/exits can be either way; although traffic flows work better with in-swinging on entrance, out-swinging on exit.

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove... Once the hinge side is free, it doesn't matter what kind of latch or deadbolt is on the other side. You can also get tools into the gap between the door and jamb easier on an outswing door, if you want to try and brute-force it; but reinforced jambs and door edges can minimize that risk.

At the end of the day, doors and locks keep honest or lazy people out - if they really want in, they are getting in... Regardless of what the door is made of.

@cdru - I've taken the Brotherhood Instructors Forcible entry course (that your video is from...) - by the end of the course, there isn't a commercial or residential door out there, that can't be breached in under a minute or two...

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:47:44 EDT

cdru posted :

said by Draiman:

Not to mention other things like an outswing can get blocked so a fire hazard or if you get snow a nightmare to use that door.

Yup. That's why almost all businesses have doors that open inwards instead of outwards.

For the sarcastically challenged, that's sarcasm.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:24:37 EDT

robbin posted : Sounds like some old, cheap lock. A properly installed, quality lockset does not allow manipulation of the latch to gain entry. There are also plates which will protect this area from access. As far as a fire hazard, commercial doors are required to swing out as an in-swinging door is considered a fire hazard.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:20:17 EDT

nonymous posted :

said by Draiman:

said by robbin:

said by Draiman:

An outswing entry door is 10 times easier to pick then inswing entry door as well which is why the majority of entry doors are inswing.

Could you elaborate?

Is that true picking? Plus you are not saying you could do that with a deadbolt?

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:06:44 EDT

Draiman posted :

said by robbin:

said by Draiman:

An outswing entry door is 10 times easier to pick then inswing entry door as well which is why the majority of entry doors are inswing.

Could you elaborate?

The space between the frame and the door is exposed on an outswing door. I've seen people pick outswings in under 60 seconds as a teen. Inswings they skipped and attacked windows instead.

Not to mention other things like an outswing can get blocked so a fire hazard or if you get snow a nightmare to use that door.
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:04:02 EDT

Draiman posted : The only difference between wood, fiberglass, and steel exterior is durability. If you bump a steel door you might dent it where wood or fiberglass wouldn't. Steel is considered the budget door. A fire-rating means 'solid core' so from a security prospective you don't care about the fire rating but you want 'solid core' so you get a fire rated door.
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:01:42 EDT

robbin posted :

said by Draiman:

An outswing entry door is 10 times easier to pick then inswing entry door as well which is why the majority of entry doors are inswing.

Could you elaborate?

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:58:50 EDT

bemis posted :

said by sk1939:

Steel doors are uglier, noisier, and heavier, but they won't splinter when kicked in if nothing else, and the heavier duty doors are also fire-rated.

My $199 Jeld-Wen looks just fine, from 5' away you would have no way of telling the difference between it and a painted wood door.

Not sure what you mean by noiser? It doesn't really make a sound when it closes unless you're counting the sound of the seals hitting the door, but that was same noise I had w/ my old wood door...

Fire rating is usually only for the ones w/o a window, and of course, if it's an exterior door, who cares about a fire-rating?

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:53:44 EDT

Draiman posted : An outswing entry door is 10 times easier to pick then inswing entry door as well which is why the majority of entry doors are inswing.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:50:14 EDT

cdru posted :

said by VioletVenom:

You not only need to take the door into consideration, but the jamb and swing of the door. When someone tries to breach the door they're going to try and force the door inwards. If you have an inswing door with a wooden jamb enough force needs to be applied to break 2 fastners and ~3/4" of wood. Versus a metal jamb, outswing you are now applying force against a metal stop on 3 sides of the door. As to metal vs solid core, I would think both would hold up quite well against brute force with the later installation.

When was the last time out saw an outswinging entry door on a house? Yeah they exist, but they are rare. Even if they are used, they are still not hard to get into. It's going to make noise, but a metal pry bar of a decent length will provide more than enough leverage. Door jamb, door, hinges, lockset...somethings going to give.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0pH08plTz0

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:44:24 EDT

Draiman posted : As long as you have room for the door to swing it can open either direction. You just have to buy a pre-hung inswing or outswing door to install. A cheaper option is get a wireless outside webcam and install it out of reach but in plain sight. Set it to email you pictures anytime it detects movement. If they want to break in after that the door wouldn't have made any difference.

While your at it go onto eBay and buy some ADT stickers and signs. The best option is to make sure they don't want to mess with you in the first place rather then invite attack and plan a defense against it.

The best defense is a good offense!
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:34:19 EDT

jsouth posted : We are having break ins where they are kicking in back doors or doors attached to garages that are in the back yard or out of view of neighbors. On my house breaking a window would possibly work but the neighbors would all hear. The same with brute force. Can any door be set to swing out? What about temperature issues? Does steel conduct heat and cold? Also I am getting a plain door. No windows in it at all.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:38:37 EDT

VioletVenom posted : You not only need to take the door into consideration, but the jamb and swing of the door. When someone tries to breach the door they're going to try and force the door inwards. If you have an inswing door with a wooden jamb enough force needs to be applied to break 2 fastners and ~3/4" of wood. Versus a metal jamb, outswing you are now applying force against a metal stop on 3 sides of the door. As to metal vs solid core, I would think both would hold up quite well against brute force with the later installation. As to someone using heavy equipment to breach a house, house loses.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:25:17 EDT

tcope posted : Weakest part of door... heck with that, they could just break a window and then unlock the door.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:26:53 EDT

Draiman posted : I don't think it matter between solid and metal they work about the same. Both are fire-rated doors. In the end the weakest part of the door is the hinges, handle, and/or lock. That's where people focus. If someone wanted to go threw our door they'd just hook up a chain to the door then to their car and rip the door off. That or shoot out the lock. Just go with a standard solid core FIBERGLASS fire-rated 20 minute door.
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:27:21 EDT

robbin posted : Just a guess but I think a solid wood door would be stronger than a foam cored residential quality steel door. Commercial rated doors would be different.

Re: Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:15:38 EDT

sk1939 posted : Steel doors are uglier, noisier, and heavier, but they won't splinter when kicked in if nothing else, and the heavier duty doors are also fire-rated.

Doors

Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:12:21 EDT

jsouth posted : I have a question about doors. Are solid core wood doors better for security or are the steel doors better. I already know to get the screws for the deadbolt put into the frame of the house. I am just wondering about the pros and the cons of each type of door.