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jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2
reply to TSI Marc

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

said by TSI Marc See Profile
But it's right for Knopf to assume.

I think he has every right to assume. Maybe listening to those assumptions might help protect TSI.
--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

I think my point was if i want a lawyer specific to one thing, it'd be that lawyer. I don't 100% understand how hiring a lawyer or a firm work to be honest.

Rare is the lawyer who works ONLY on one narrow part of the law.
Think about it - in Canada there are N lawyers spread over M cities practicing all kinds of law. Copyright law LITIGATION and privacy law LITGATION doesn't occur every day in every city, or even every month.

Much as we all may feel otherwise, lawyers gotta eat too. So they branch out into related fields which are as closely aligned to their core interests as possible (which mostly occurs at large firms, though it can occur at small boutique firms).

Do you think if you have a brake problem with a Porsche that there's one mechanic at every Porsche dealer who does nothing but brakes all the time? Of course not. But there may be one guy who does brakes, suspension & steering 80% of the time.

jkoblovsky

join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON
kudos:2
reply to Tx

said by Tx See Profile
I think my point was if i want a lawyer specific to one thing, it'd be that lawyer. I don't 100% understand how hiring a lawyer or a firm work to be honest.

In our copyright consultations, the Canadian Bar Association refrained from providing an official position on copyright until after government announced it's position. There are some firms out there with financial interests around copyright and ensuring income from that.

The way this as been treated by Stikeman Elliott, seems a bit suspicious to me, since the legal arguments made, don't really protect TSI a whole deal when all is said and done. It opens up the floor for mass litigation, and as a result firms with financial interests in copyright could very well cash in. In fact Stikeman seem to have put TSI at greater risk as a result of the legal arguments here. My thoughts anyway.
--
My Canadian Tech Podcast: »canadiantechnetwork.podbean.com/
My Self Help and Digital Policy Blog: »jkoblovsky.wordpress.com/


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
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reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Tx:

I think my point was if i want a lawyer specific to one thing, it'd be that lawyer. I don't 100% understand how hiring a lawyer or a firm work to be honest.

Rare is the lawyer who works ONLY on one narrow part of the law.
Think about it - in Canada there are N lawyers spread over M cities practicing all kinds of law. Copyright law LITIGATION and privacy law LITGATION doesn't occur every day in every city, or even every month.

Much as we all may feel otherwise, lawyers gotta eat too. So they branch out into related fields which are as closely aligned to their core interests as possible (which mostly occurs at large firms, though it can occur at small boutique firms).

Do you think if you have a brake problem with a Porsche that there's one mechanic at every Porsche dealer who does nothing but brakes all the time? Of course not. But there may be one guy who does brakes, suspension & steering 80% of the time.

If we turn that analogy around about a regular mechanic they won't touch a porsche simply because it's not something they know well enough. Engines as a whole are the same but require an expert in that type of engine to work on it.

Take for example a ford vs my VW. Ford is a basic DOHC type motor. My VW that i actually own is a bit different. I have a cam follower i need to worry about and how that functions changes the engines maintenance.

Point is, you may be able to branch out slightly but unless trained in that field, that field of law, you're not an expert in it. Howard is in this case a copyright expert and practises strictly in copyright law. "copyright, trade-marks, cyberlaw, and related issues.

quote:
He is the Chairman of the Copyright Policy Committee of the Canadian Bar Association and was recently advisor to the Law Commission of Canada on security interests in intellectual property
If i were to hire a lawyer it'd be him not Nicholas McHaffie if it pertained to copyright law.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
said by Tx:

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Tx:

I think my point was if i want a lawyer specific to one thing, it'd be that lawyer. I don't 100% understand how hiring a lawyer or a firm work to be honest.

Rare is the lawyer who works ONLY on one narrow part of the law.
Think about it - in Canada there are N lawyers spread over M cities practicing all kinds of law. Copyright law LITIGATION and privacy law LITGATION doesn't occur every day in every city, or even every month.

Much as we all may feel otherwise, lawyers gotta eat too. So they branch out into related fields which are as closely aligned to their core interests as possible (which mostly occurs at large firms, though it can occur at small boutique firms).

Do you think if you have a brake problem with a Porsche that there's one mechanic at every Porsche dealer who does nothing but brakes all the time? Of course not. But there may be one guy who does brakes, suspension & steering 80% of the time.

If we turn that analogy around about a regular mechanic they won't touch a porsche simply because it's not something they know well enough. Engines as a whole are the same but require an expert in that type of engine to work on it.

Take for example a ford vs my VW. Ford is a basic DOHC type motor. My VW that i actually own is a bit different. I have a cam follower i need to worry about and how that functions changes the engines maintenance.

Point is, you may be able to branch out slightly but unless trained in that field, that field of law, you're not an expert in it. Howard is in this case a copyright expert and practises strictly in copyright law. "copyright, trade-marks, cyberlaw, and related issues.

quote:
He is the Chairman of the Copyright Policy Committee of the Canadian Bar Association and was recently advisor to the Law Commission of Canada on security interests in intellectual property
If i were to hire a lawyer it'd be him not Nicholas McHaffie if it pertained to copyright law.

To each his own.

Nicholas McHaffie is a partner in Stikeman Elliott's Litigation, Intellectual Property, and Competition and Foreign Investment groups in Ottawa. He practices in the area of
a) litigation [ok, we're litigating in Federal Court, so - check],

with a primary emphasis on
b) intellectual property [this case is partly copyright, so - check],
c) public law [law governing the relationship between individuals (citizens, companies) and the state - Charter and Privacy, so - check],
d) administrative/regulatory [well since the regulations governing the new copyright law are non-existent at the moment - check], and
e) commercial matters [this is a civil, not a criminal case, so - check]

Seems to me that most of the bases are covered.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
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said by MaynardKrebs:

To each his own.

Nicholas McHaffie is a partner in Stikeman Elliott's Litigation, Intellectual Property, and Competition and Foreign Investment groups in Ottawa. He practices in the area of
a) litigation [ok, we're litigating in Federal Court, so - check],

with a primary emphasis on
b) intellectual property [this case is partly copyright, so - check],
c) public law [law governing the relationship between individuals (citizens, companies) and the state - Charter and Privacy, so - check],
d) administrative/regulatory [well since the regulations governing the new copyright law are non-existent at the moment - check], and
e) commercial matters [this is a civil, not a criminal case, so - check]

Seems to me that most of the bases are covered.

You can argue differences all day long. Howard is the preferred lawyer when it comes to copyright law. Period. Let's also not ignore the fact that Howard brings up very valid points that Teksavvy has yet to answer where customers have asked.

When you have 1 reputable copyright lawyer and expert questioning Teksavvy's motives it's enough to question everything.

When everyone wakes up and smells the coffee and see's unicorns do not exist it make be a safer place. The whole argument is lost until you understand what civil rights you are willing to sacrifice in the name of what exactly?

I've lost count how many naive people think "if you don't download anything illegal you'll be safe". For this small minded way of thinking people are willing to sacrifice privacy rights.

Hell it's not even illegal to download a movie in Canada and it's not theft or stealing.

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
Wow awesome Marc came in here to make a few one word responses and a stupid one liner! Way to go Teksavvy...

Stumbles

join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL
reply to JohnDoe187

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

Oh how I wish Rocky would extend such a failed 3rd choice ISP to my area here in Florida. I'd drop AT&T in less than a heart beat.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Tx:

I think my point was if i want a lawyer specific to one thing, it'd be that lawyer. I don't 100% understand how hiring a lawyer or a firm work to be honest.

Rare is the lawyer who works ONLY on one narrow part of the law.
Think about it - in Canada there are N lawyers spread over M cities practicing all kinds of law. Copyright law LITIGATION and privacy law LITGATION doesn't occur every day in every city, or even every month.

Much as we all may feel otherwise, lawyers gotta eat too. So they branch out into related fields which are as closely aligned to their core interests as possible (which mostly occurs at large firms, though it can occur at small boutique firms).

Do you think if you have a brake problem with a Porsche that there's one mechanic at every Porsche dealer who does nothing but brakes all the time? Of course not. But there may be one guy who does brakes, suspension & steering 80% of the time.

so a lawyer is a creature that needs to eat real food
wish they didnt have to do that so often with all hte money they make they must be giant sized by now?


TraderOne

@teksavvy.com
reply to cynic10

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

hi cynic10,

Please let me know how the service of start.ca is. Do you know what their log retention is. I am considering leaving Teksavvy as well. I am just waiting to see what will happen on Monday. But, I don't have a good feeling about it.

cynic10

join:2011-02-05
said by TraderOne :

hi cynic10,

Please let me know how the service of start.ca is. Do you know what their log retention is. I am considering leaving Teksavvy as well. I am just waiting to see what will happen on Monday. But, I don't have a good feeling about it.

Will do. But you'll have to wait around Feb 8 or so before I can give answer since that is when my service start. Since they require 10 business days notice to startup and my new billing period starts around same week I had it delayed until Feb 8.

But there is a site for it and the reviews seems good so far.
»forums.redflagdeals.com/start-co···1151057/

And you can find some customers' experience w/ them on DSLreport too. »Start Communications


nupogodi
Premium
join:2012-07-10
Toronto, ON
reply to JohnDoe187
Pretty big mistake on TSI's part here. Oh, well. Fighting for privacy is a losing battle, isn't it? Year by year just gets chipped away.


TraderOne

@teksavvy.com
reply to cynic10
hi cynic10,

Thank you for your reply and info.

I email Start.ca for their log retention time last night. They emailed me back in less than 2 hours at 2:41 am. I wonder if these guys even sleep. Here is their answer.

Hello *** and thanks for your interest. Our log retention is 90 days. Thanks and have a great weekend.

Peter Rocca
Start Communications
519-434-5888 / 1-877-78-START

Ok. They have the same log retention as Teksavvy. I will ask them for their stance on customer privacy protection after Monday.

If Teksavvy rolls over on Monday, I will switch even though I may not get a better service elsewhere. Customers need to send out message to ISPs that breaching customer privacy will not be tolerated.
Expand your moderator at work


Sadf343

@teksavvy.com
reply to TraderOne

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

I will be switching providers as well, if TSI does not oppose the motion on Monday. I will switch even if I have to pay more elsewhere.

prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to JohnDoe187

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

said by JohnDoe187:

Wow awesome Marc came in here to make a few one word responses and a stupid one liner! Way to go Teksavvy...

Honestly, What do you expect them to do. They're fighting a court battle and you want them to publicly state their intentions and reasoning on an open forum. Give your head a shake.

I don't care who Konpf is, he's a lawyer with an opionon. I can find you 10 other Lawyers all with direct experience in the copyright field who will give you 10 different answers. The fact that one agrees with what people on this forum are saying means nothing.

I'm sure Tek has a very good strategy for this case as it does direct involve them. The fact that they've mentioned if they didn't ask for more time their customers wouldn't know what hit them, tells me that there's MUCH more at play behind the scenes that we don't know about and haven't heard.

Even if they agreed to not oppose the motion, it's the judge who decides if they can proceed or not and it certainly doesn't mean that they can't raise concerns on privacy while not opposing it.

TLDR; there's more to this than we and any of the other speculators know


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
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said by prairiesky:

said by JohnDoe187:

Wow awesome Marc came in here to make a few one word responses and a stupid one liner! Way to go Teksavvy...

Honestly, What do you expect them to do. They're fighting a court battle and you want them to publicly state their intentions and reasoning on an open forum. Give your head a shake.

I don't care who Konpf is, he's a lawyer with an opionon. I can find you 10 other Lawyers all with direct experience in the copyright field who will give you 10 different answers. The fact that one agrees with what people on this forum are saying means nothing.

I'm sure Tek has a very good strategy for this case as it does direct involve them. The fact that they've mentioned if they didn't ask for more time their customers wouldn't know what hit them, tells me that there's MUCH more at play behind the scenes that we don't know about and haven't heard.

Even if they agreed to not oppose the motion, it's the judge who decides if they can proceed or not and it certainly doesn't mean that they can't raise concerns on privacy while not opposing it.

TLDR; there's more to this than we and any of the other speculators know

Ok, please find me 10 others who disagree. Seeing as Konpf is a respected lawyer in this field. I ask you provide me with at least 30% of that 10 you're so sure about.

How are you so sure TSI has a strategy? There is none, they already made their plans known to us and to the courts.

Bugblndr

join:2010-03-02
Burlington, ON
Reviews:
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reply to prairiesky
said by prairiesky:

Honestly, What do you expect them to do. They're fighting a court battle and you want them to publicly state their intentions and reasoning on an open forum. Give your head a shake.

I don't care who Konpf is, he's a lawyer with an opionon.............

I'm sure Tek has a very good strategy for this case as it does direct involve them. The fact that they've mentioned if they didn't ask for more time their customers wouldn't know what hit them, tells me that there's MUCH more at play behind the scenes that we don't know about and haven't heard.......................

TLDR; there's more to this than we and any of the other speculators know

It's nice to see some sane heads in this thread from time to time.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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said by Bugblndr:

said by prairiesky:

Honestly, What do you expect them to do. They're fighting a court battle and you want them to publicly state their intentions and reasoning on an open forum. Give your head a shake.

I don't care who Konpf is, he's a lawyer with an opionon.............

I'm sure Tek has a very good strategy for this case as it does direct involve them. The fact that they've mentioned if they didn't ask for more time their customers wouldn't know what hit them, tells me that there's MUCH more at play behind the scenes that we don't know about and haven't heard.......................

TLDR; there's more to this than we and any of the other speculators know

It's nice to see some sane heads in this thread from time to time.

And you're the one to judge whose the one with a "sane head"? Ever consider those passionate about this whole mess are not just arguing our own rights but yours too?

Everyone here has a "sane head?" odd. nevertheless, each have their opinions. Guess you consider Howard Konpf not of those "sane heads". I can't help but really truly and honestly laugh at you people who get caught with a smoking gun if you're next on Voltages MILLIONS of ip's they do have but waiting as this is a test case. Will you be apart of the 42 next round? Maybe it won't be caught next time.

Bringing up valid points, arguments and discussing them make us not have "sane heads".

Give your "sane head" a shake. Go disable that wireless router as well. Is your neighbour using it? Hopefully you're a hardwired house.

Point is, don't judge people because you feel ignorant to the facts and feel safe because you weren't on the first 2300 IP's. People are upset because voltage is a troll, extorting people. If you find this acceptable you're as bad as Voltage.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

said by apvm:

According to Howard Knopf : “It’s simply not right for anyone to assume that protecting privacy in any way amounts to endorsing piracy,” Mr. Knopf said. “They’re just completely separate issues.”

But it's right for Knopf to assume.

A cryptic pile of NOTHING........just like your rollover.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to Bugblndr
said by Bugblndr:

It's nice to see some sane heads in this thread from time to time.

Versus anyone who doesn't agree with your view/opinion would be insane?


Who7

join:2012-12-18
Through human history, there are always those who rather surrender then fight. particularly if the fight seems to affect the OTHER guy.

"I don't download, so why should I care".....

Until he gets a notice of a false positive or finds his name on a database, or someone hacks his wifi.

This privacy issue is very much an issue of......then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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reply to Who7
said by Who7:

said by Bugblndr:

It's nice to see some sane heads in this thread from time to time.

Versus anyone who doesn't agree with your view/opinion would be insane?

It seem's unless you're up an ISP's ass or (product such as Apple/Microsoft) you're not a "sane head" because your views differ.

So unless we all in cult fashion start saying the same thing together we who oppose are not of the "sane heads"...

Odd mentality isn't it?

Bugblndr

join:2010-03-02
Burlington, ON
Reviews:
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said by Tx See ProfileIt seem's unless you're up an ISP's ass or (product such as Apple/Microsoft) you're not a "sane head" because your views differ.

So unless we all in cult fashion start saying the same thing together we who oppose are not of the "sane heads"...

Odd mentality isn't it?

I'm not up any ISP's ass, or software company's ass either. In the past 3 years I've used 4 different ISP's, Teksavvy two times. I use MS, Apple, and Linux OS's and don't consider myself a lemming.

My point is, until the motion is heard and the results determined, no one here really knows what is going to go down or how it is going to go down. Marc has already stated that "I will be there to ensure your privacy is taken seriously...."

I wouldn't expect any of the players in this to post their full and true intentions of their strategy on such a public forum where their adversary could easily read it. I do know that if my IP was on the list, I would've already consulted with my attorney to determine my best course of action.

Monday should be interesting, and I do hope that Voltage gets shot down. They are the bad guys in this IMO, not Teksavvy.


Tx
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said by Bugblndr:

said by Tx See ProfileIt seem's unless you're up an ISP's ass or (product such as Apple/Microsoft) you're not a "sane head" because your views differ.

So unless we all in cult fashion start saying the same thing together we who oppose are not of the "sane heads"...

Odd mentality isn't it?

I'm not up any ISP's ass, or software company's ass either. In the past 3 years I've used 4 different ISP's, Teksavvy two times. I use MS, Apple, and Linux OS's and don't consider myself a lemming.

My point is, until the motion is heard and the results determined, no one here really knows what is going to go down or how it is going to go down. Marc has already stated that "I will be there to ensure your privacy is taken seriously...."

I wouldn't expect any of the players in this to post their full and true intentions of their strategy on such a public forum where their adversary could easily read it. I do know that if my IP was on the list, I would've already consulted with my attorney to determine my best course of action.

Monday should be interesting, and I do hope that Voltage gets shot down. They are the bad guys in this IMO, not Teksavvy.

You are absolutely correct, Voltage are the bad guys, hands down. Anyone who agrees with them are fools. Name calling or not, they are. Problem is TSI is making it too easy for Voltage to extort their customers. This isn't some joe from ABC LLC that found 3 customers pirating his software and would like for it to stop. This is a far deeper issue. If TSI hands this info over, mark my words (should a judge grant it) Voltage will be back with tons more for months or years to come.

Unfortunately Teksavvy was entrusted to protect our privacy. When someone comes knocking at their door alleging they have IPs of people who downloaded a "move or software" then yea, not questioning it is odd. A judge allow voltage to compel this information if they say they have it along with a third party's affidavit saying so. It's too simple.

TSI get's rich off of a per IP/customer model and voltage creates a new revenue since their movies don't make enough money. At least to question the evidence and the method used to gather it and it's accuracy would have been nice.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
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said by Tx:

.....Problem is TSI is making it too easy for Voltage to extort their customers.

As "Hamilton Burger" of "Perry" Mason fame would say, "Immaterial, irrelevant, and incompetent, your Honor".

You don't know what is going to happen on Monday (unless you are now part of TSI's legal team) so your statement is merely speculative.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
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said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Tx:

.....Problem is TSI is making it too easy for Voltage to extort their customers.

As "Hamilton Burger" of "Perry" Mason fame would say, "Immaterial, irrelevant, and incompetent, your Honor".

You don't know what is going to happen on Monday (unless you are now part of TSI's legal team) so your statement is merely speculative.

Care to explain how i and everyone of these forums doesn't? Marc has already publicly made this statement via the forums and the teksavvy blog. How exactly is it speculative based on the very statements from the CEO's plans on the matter?

Marc on his transparency with Teksavvy has already said Teksavvy's stance and what they plan to do. There will be no contesting it. They only asked the courts for more time to notify customers. That's it. Monday as per their agreement with the court, they are handing it over.


apvm

join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1
Like I said, it is $200 a piece and with court order too, I'll screw anyone for $400,000+ anytime anyday. Of course, that's me.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

Monday as per their agreement with the court, they are handing it over.

If you aren't privy to backroom discussions or the intimate details of the legal strategy being cast this weekend (or not) then there is nothing more to say about the matter other than the Court may or may not decide in Voltage's favour, and that my friend is the only certainty in this whole process.

TSI isn't tendering anything to Voltage without being ordered by the Court to do so, thus your colourful phrase of "handing it over" is about as accurate as saying the moon is made from a delightful blend of Cambozzola, Swiss, Brie, and Venezuelan Beaver cheeses.


Tx
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No, you made a statement that i do not know what teksavvy is doing. I answered that i do. As do we all. How? This is what Teksavvy is known for. Transparency.

Marc announced it himself. Through the horses mouth. No speculation, no assumptions.

Why are you trying to make that statement more then it is?

Have you read nothing? They already had the motion to disclose handed to them. »www.teksavvy.com/Media/Default/C···tion.pdf

They have already (Marc) said they will not contest it. What does being privy to backroom discussions have to do with anything? That's all this was about. Nothing about what a court may decide.

Maybe i'll simplify it for you. The "colorful" phrase used was in terms of what their original plan they told us customers and the courts they will do January 14th, 2013. Thus handing user information over.