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JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to Bugblndr

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

When it comes down to it some just see the small picture and not the entire picture. It's a sad limitation of some minds... Just like how it takes a special type of CEO to get a company to the next 10 or 100 million dollars...

m3chen

join:2009-12-03
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Bugblndr
Clearly you need to understand your rights as a Canadian citizen and consumer a little better. While you are correct in assuming that it is ultimately up to you to protect yourself when a legitimate lawsuit is launched against you; Tek Savvy actually has an obligation to protect your private information under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. Simply passing the buck onto you as a customer after they have given all of your private information they have away to a third party without verifying the evidence against you / their affect customer is simply them not doing their due diligence.

While I'm sure their legal team gave them advice on this, I imagine that TSI has their own IT+S professional staff who could have provided them with similar information as what I / others have been saying on this board. Giving away data without making damn sure that those accused actually did the deed is going to be something that will come back to haunt TSI and their existing customer base.

Who7

join:2012-12-18
reply to Bugblndr
said by Bugblndr:

TSI gave those thousand people the opportunity to protect their own privacy, something they did not have to do. Should they do more? I'm not really sure, I know I protect my own privacy online as I see fit.

Sorry. TSI must inform their customers.

Doing what they are obligated to do does not make them righteous.

MFido

join:2012-10-19
kudos:2
reply to m3chen
said by m3chen:

BTW I'm not a lawyer

... so why are you thinking you know better than their lawyer what they should do?


AwShucks

@rogers.com
Their lawyer advises them on what they think is best for THEM. Not their customers. Not the general public. And besides, lawyers have been known to be wrong. There's also a lawyer on the losing side of most cases.


Atticka

join:2001-11-26
Montreal, QC
reply to JohnDoe187
I don't know why everyone is in a tizzy over this...

Teksavvy is trying to protect their status as a "dumb pipe", the moment TSI begins opposing the court request for information they risk becoming liable for commercial infringement. If your legal counsel gives you a recommendation on how to proceed then its usually a good idea to follow it.

Fighting the legal battle to protect the privacy of these users opens up too much risk and very little gain.

TSI did the right thing by being completely transparent and open in communicating to their user base. TSI did not need to do this and simply had to send a notice to the 2300 subscribers. The fact that Marc is active on this forum and relatively open about these proceedings is amazing, good luck getting this kind of interaction from Bell!

We have no idea what Voltage will do with the information they receive IF the court order for account information is upheld.

Those that got a notice SHOULD have lawyered up to have representation in the upcoming court hearing. It would have been great to see 2300 lawyers lined up ready to defend their privacy, that's not likely to happen though!

I think everyone needs to put the pitchforks down and think about this logcally.


apvm

join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1
said by Atticka:

TSI did the right thing by being completely transparent and open in communicating to their user base. TSI did not need to do this and simply had to send a notice to the 2300 subscribers. The fact that Marc is active on this forum and relatively open about these proceedings is amazing, good luck getting this kind of interaction from Bell!

What is the difference? Aren't they just the same in the end?


Atticka

join:2001-11-26
Montreal, QC
The difference is we can actually have a conversation about what is going versus having zero details.

The difference is having a company that cares enough and is open enough to have a dialogue with us regarding these proceedings.

Bell would not do this and would most likely simply comply with the request with little thought to the accused users.


shikotee

join:2007-01-11
Canada
kudos:2
reply to mattvmotas
said by mattvmotas:

The very simple answer is...

Let me stop you right there. Perhaps "simple answers" are best not used for complex problems?

What's next - Are you going to have a feeling in your stomach, which could either be some form of an idea or merely indigestion.

It is actually really "simple" Matt.... Our legal system should not be exploited for the financial gain of copyright trolls.

m3chen

join:2009-12-03
Toronto, ON
reply to MFido
@MontrealFido:

Apparently smart ass remarks are just as good as professional opinions. You should provide some input as to how a lawyer would know how computers, networks and bittorent operate / function...

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to Atticka

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

That's the "TSI" difference right and we should expect this type of things... They are a small company I don't expect anything less, sorry if that makes me sound demanding but I pay good money for the service.

As for your TSI liability claims if opposing did you not read the article about what the SME said? There is no point in replying to you when you are not taking in what experts are saying as you yourself is not an expert nor I.


apvm

join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1
reply to Atticka

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

said by Atticka:

The difference is we can actually have a conversation about what is going versus having zero details.

The difference is having a company that cares enough and is open enough to have a dialogue with us regarding these proceedings.

Bell would not do this and would most likely simply comply with the request with little thought to the accused users.

Thanks for the clarification.

Bell would hand them in a plate without telling them and Teksavvy will tell them "I am handing you all in a plate". Nice conversation and details.


Atticka

join:2001-11-26
Montreal, QC
reply to JohnDoe187

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

said by JohnDoe187:

That's the "TSI" difference right and we should expect this type of things... They are a small company I don't expect anything less, sorry if that makes me sound demanding but I pay good money for the service.

The TSI difference is their "Techsavvyness". I don't recall them ever advertising legal protection from copyright trolls...

Agreed, %99 of all the comments here are not from "experts" and generally formed from opinions on bits of information collected over time. Precisely why we all need to take a deep breath and try to understand all of the aspects of whats going on and not create uninformed opinions.

I expect TSI to provide me great internet service. I also expect TSI to protect their interests and limit their exposure and risk (as all corporations tend to do). I also fully expect TSI to operate within the constraints of the law and follow their legal counsels advice.

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
Ok the next time Voltage goes after TSI I hope u are not part of the IP list and Hearsay evidence can get your info

“It’s hearsay evidence. There’s very little in that affidavit that they’ve filed in support that gives us confidence that they’ve met the legal burden,” Mr. Fewer said.

While Mr. Knopf did not comment specifically on Voltage’s material, he said if it is inadequate, TekSavvy taking a stand against it would be an easy win for the company with its customers and would not sacrifice its status as a neutral party.

“It’s simply not right for anyone to assume that protecting privacy in any way amounts to endorsing piracy,” Mr. Knopf said. “They’re just completely separate issues.”

cynic10

join:2011-02-05
reply to JohnDoe187

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

Well, the CEO haven't said or been heard of since. And I doubt they're willing to do anything at this point. The decision to remain "Neutral" is quite upsetting given the precedence it will set and the known extortions method used by these copyright trolls.

I was going to give TSI another chance but forget it. I've made up my mind. I'm canceling service with TSI and going over to Start.ca

FYI - I'm not even one of the customers affected

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
Their cable Internet looks attractive I will be switching too.
Still researching other options, start.ca looks good.

cynic10

join:2011-02-05
Seems they're trying to talk me out of cancelling..

cynic10

join:2011-02-05
reply to JohnDoe187
if you find something good or other alternatives just in case please let the rest of us know .

The only way companies understand is if you hit them with your wallet. Talk is cheap. So far Start.ca seems the best that I've found.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to JohnDoe187
Its time to stop talking and Take action, If you like many feel teksavvy has failed to protect customer privacy Cancel your service there are other Indy's out there, And make sure you tell teksavvy why you Cancelled. So they can Calculate the dollars this Decision costs them.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
Much as I don't think the same way, I can respect the decision to leave TSI as a result of their stance on this. I do think the assumption that other ISPs are going to handle a similar situation any better is unjustified, but TekSavvy has to live with their decision on this one.

For what it's worth, I've taken the threat seriously and have begun testing VPNs. Not bad so far. But no matter which ISP I'm with, I'm going to be much more careful about privacy going forward.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to MFido
said by MFido:

said by m3chen:

BTW I'm not a lawyer

... so why are you thinking you know better than their lawyer what they should do?

If i commit murder my lawyer will also advise me just the same lol. is this really how small minded people are these days. Do you honestly not have a clue what is on the line in Canada right now?

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to morisato
Don't worry I will be, it seems I can get a cheaper and faster deal with start.ca. No point to stay if this is truly TSI's path, I had been a loyal customer for 4 years.


apvm

join:2003-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1
reply to The Mongoose
From now on we have to be careful, downloading a picture for your screen saver, a demo, even browsing a webpage without reading the small print may ended up copyright violation.

Remember the energy scam cheque with a small print on its back?

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to Atticka
...

JonyBelGeul
Premium
join:2008-07-31
reply to JohnDoe187
Motion to disclose TSI customer information is a direct challenge to the privacy agreement between TSI and its customers. But more specifically, it's a direct challenge to TSI's duty in upholding TSI's part of the privacy agreement, which is to protect its customers' information according to the conditions outlined therein.

TSI chose not to fulfill their duty by agreeing to not oppose the motion to disclose. The reason for this is to give notice and time to TSI customers, so they can seek legal counsel if need be. A direct consequence of TSI's decision is that if TSI customers decide to oppose motion to disclose, then TSI customers are in fact fulfilling TSI's duty in upholding TSI's part of the privacy agreement, at their own costs. A subsequent consequence of TSI's decision is that TSI gets free legal representation by their own customers, at the costs of their own customers.

Since when do ISP's rely on their customers to uphold ISP's part of the privacy agreement?

Yes, we have a privacy agreement. It says if there's a motion to disclose your personal information, then you must spend your money to make sure our part of the agreement is fulfilled.
--
My blog. Wanna Git My Ball on Blogspot.

zinc
Premium
join:2004-02-17
Kitchener, ON
To be fair to TSI, all their legal agreements with us customers says that if there's a court order, then they will comply. They do not say that they will take extreme measures to protect our privacy. And to date, there hasn't been a court order so nobody has any of our information.

It's really up to the court, I haven't seen any of the details, but if Voltage's evidence is as shabby as it has been described, then the court shouldn't be ordering TSI to disclose customer information. It's not up to TSI to decide that Voltage's evidence is crap.

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to JonyBelGeul
Exactly TSI wants the acussed to fight their battle... Voltage is not challenging the accused with the motion but TSI to hand over private information base on hearsay. As pointed out by the various experts its very puzzling to them why TSI has taken the stance they have and even made it clear Voltage's motion is nothing more than hearsay and a easy win for TSI. I just don't understand TSI's decision and I get we don't really get any say in it or maybe not even an explanation but it just seems to me and from the info on the experts it's a BAD decision on TSI's part. Oh well we will see Monday and the consequences it leaves. I for one am stopping my service is all TSI has is lip service.

BigVe

join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI
Quit whining and use VPN & a Seedbox/server that will take care of (most) of your problems.Hard to understand why so many Teksavvy customers blame them for your own piracy.Grow up and get on with life

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
You are the cause of the problem, no one is condoning pirating software or movies but yourself... We are discussing a privacy issue. I will grow up when you get yourself a education... Fair?

JohnDoe187

join:2013-01-04
reply to BigVe
I hope your VPN drops and your TSI connection is exposed while you are pirating. Have fun fool.