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JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187 to Atticka

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to Atticka

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

That's the "TSI" difference right and we should expect this type of things... They are a small company I don't expect anything less, sorry if that makes me sound demanding but I pay good money for the service.

As for your TSI liability claims if opposing did you not read the article about what the SME said? There is no point in replying to you when you are not taking in what experts are saying as you yourself is not an expert nor I.

apvm
join:2003-02-14
London, ON
Linksys WRT1900AC
SmartRG SR505N
Huawei HG612

apvm to Atticka

Member

to Atticka

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

said by Atticka:

The difference is we can actually have a conversation about what is going versus having zero details.

The difference is having a company that cares enough and is open enough to have a dialogue with us regarding these proceedings.

Bell would not do this and would most likely simply comply with the request with little thought to the accused users.

Thanks for the clarification.

Bell would hand them in a plate without telling them and Teksavvy will tell them "I am handing you all in a plate". Nice conversation and details.

Atticka
join:2001-11-26
Montreal, QC

Atticka to JohnDoe187

Member

to JohnDoe187

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers..

said by JohnDoe187:

That's the "TSI" difference right and we should expect this type of things... They are a small company I don't expect anything less, sorry if that makes me sound demanding but I pay good money for the service.

The TSI difference is their "Techsavvyness". I don't recall them ever advertising legal protection from copyright trolls...

Agreed, %99 of all the comments here are not from "experts" and generally formed from opinions on bits of information collected over time. Precisely why we all need to take a deep breath and try to understand all of the aspects of whats going on and not create uninformed opinions.

I expect TSI to provide me great internet service. I also expect TSI to protect their interests and limit their exposure and risk (as all corporations tend to do). I also fully expect TSI to operate within the constraints of the law and follow their legal counsels advice.
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187

Member

Ok the next time Voltage goes after TSI I hope u are not part of the IP list and Hearsay evidence can get your info

“It’s hearsay evidence. There’s very little in that affidavit that they’ve filed in support that gives us confidence that they’ve met the legal burden,” Mr. Fewer said.

While Mr. Knopf did not comment specifically on Voltage’s material, he said if it is inadequate, TekSavvy taking a stand against it would be an easy win for the company with its customers and would not sacrifice its status as a neutral party.

“It’s simply not right for anyone to assume that protecting privacy in any way amounts to endorsing piracy,” Mr. Knopf said. “They’re just completely separate issues.”
cynic10
join:2011-02-05

cynic10 to JohnDoe187

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to JohnDoe187

Re: A summary of How Teksavvy has failed it's customers...

Well, the CEO haven't said or been heard of since. And I doubt they're willing to do anything at this point. The decision to remain "Neutral" is quite upsetting given the precedence it will set and the known extortions method used by these copyright trolls.

I was going to give TSI another chance but forget it. I've made up my mind. I'm canceling service with TSI and going over to Start.ca

FYI - I'm not even one of the customers affected
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187

Member

Their cable Internet looks attractive I will be switching too.
Still researching other options, start.ca looks good.
cynic10
join:2011-02-05

cynic10

Member

Seems they're trying to talk me out of cancelling..
cynic10

cynic10 to JohnDoe187

Member

to JohnDoe187
if you find something good or other alternatives just in case please let the rest of us know .

The only way companies understand is if you hit them with your wallet. Talk is cheap. So far Start.ca seems the best that I've found.
morisato
join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

morisato to JohnDoe187

Member

to JohnDoe187
Its time to stop talking and Take action, If you like many feel teksavvy has failed to protect customer privacy Cancel your service there are other Indy's out there, And make sure you tell teksavvy why you Cancelled. So they can Calculate the dollars this Decision costs them.
The Mongoose
join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON

The Mongoose

Member

Much as I don't think the same way, I can respect the decision to leave TSI as a result of their stance on this. I do think the assumption that other ISPs are going to handle a similar situation any better is unjustified, but TekSavvy has to live with their decision on this one.

For what it's worth, I've taken the threat seriously and have begun testing VPNs. Not bad so far. But no matter which ISP I'm with, I'm going to be much more careful about privacy going forward.

Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium Member
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON

Tx to MFido

Premium Member

to MFido
said by MFido:

said by m3chen:

BTW I'm not a lawyer

... so why are you thinking you know better than their lawyer what they should do?

If i commit murder my lawyer will also advise me just the same lol. is this really how small minded people are these days. Do you honestly not have a clue what is on the line in Canada right now?
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187 to morisato

Member

to morisato
Don't worry I will be, it seems I can get a cheaper and faster deal with start.ca. No point to stay if this is truly TSI's path, I had been a loyal customer for 4 years.

apvm
join:2003-02-14
London, ON

apvm to The Mongoose

Member

to The Mongoose
From now on we have to be careful, downloading a picture for your screen saver, a demo, even browsing a webpage without reading the small print may ended up copyright violation.

Remember the energy scam cheque with a small print on its back?
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187 to Atticka

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to Atticka
...
JonyBelGeul
Premium Member
join:2008-07-31

JonyBelGeul to JohnDoe187

Premium Member

to JohnDoe187
Motion to disclose TSI customer information is a direct challenge to the privacy agreement between TSI and its customers. But more specifically, it's a direct challenge to TSI's duty in upholding TSI's part of the privacy agreement, which is to protect its customers' information according to the conditions outlined therein.

TSI chose not to fulfill their duty by agreeing to not oppose the motion to disclose. The reason for this is to give notice and time to TSI customers, so they can seek legal counsel if need be. A direct consequence of TSI's decision is that if TSI customers decide to oppose motion to disclose, then TSI customers are in fact fulfilling TSI's duty in upholding TSI's part of the privacy agreement, at their own costs. A subsequent consequence of TSI's decision is that TSI gets free legal representation by their own customers, at the costs of their own customers.

Since when do ISP's rely on their customers to uphold ISP's part of the privacy agreement?

Yes, we have a privacy agreement. It says if there's a motion to disclose your personal information, then you must spend your money to make sure our part of the agreement is fulfilled.
zinc
Premium Member
join:2004-02-17
Kitchener, ON

zinc

Premium Member

To be fair to TSI, all their legal agreements with us customers says that if there's a court order, then they will comply. They do not say that they will take extreme measures to protect our privacy. And to date, there hasn't been a court order so nobody has any of our information.

It's really up to the court, I haven't seen any of the details, but if Voltage's evidence is as shabby as it has been described, then the court shouldn't be ordering TSI to disclose customer information. It's not up to TSI to decide that Voltage's evidence is crap.
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187 to JonyBelGeul

Member

to JonyBelGeul
Exactly TSI wants the acussed to fight their battle... Voltage is not challenging the accused with the motion but TSI to hand over private information base on hearsay. As pointed out by the various experts its very puzzling to them why TSI has taken the stance they have and even made it clear Voltage's motion is nothing more than hearsay and a easy win for TSI. I just don't understand TSI's decision and I get we don't really get any say in it or maybe not even an explanation but it just seems to me and from the info on the experts it's a BAD decision on TSI's part. Oh well we will see Monday and the consequences it leaves. I for one am stopping my service is all TSI has is lip service.
BigVe
join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI

BigVe

Member

Quit whining and use VPN & a Seedbox/server that will take care of (most) of your problems.Hard to understand why so many Teksavvy customers blame them for your own piracy.Grow up and get on with life
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187

Member

You are the cause of the problem, no one is condoning pirating software or movies but yourself... We are discussing a privacy issue. I will grow up when you get yourself a education... Fair?
JohnDoe187

JohnDoe187 to BigVe

Member

to BigVe
I hope your VPN drops and your TSI connection is exposed while you are pirating. Have fun fool.
JonyBelGeul
Premium Member
join:2008-07-31

JonyBelGeul to zinc

Premium Member

to zinc
said by zinc:

To be fair to TSI, all their legal agreements with us customers says that if there's a court order, then they will comply. They do not say that they will take extreme measures to protect our privacy. And to date, there hasn't been a court order so nobody has any of our information.

It's really up to the court, I haven't seen any of the details, but if Voltage's evidence is as shabby as it has been described, then the court shouldn't be ordering TSI to disclose customer information. It's not up to TSI to decide that Voltage's evidence is crap.

It's not up to the court to cross-examine Voltage's motion to disclose. It's not the court's duty to do this. It's the defendant's duty to cross-examine the motion. In fact, without opposition, the court has no choice but to grant the motion as is.

Upholding one's part of a privacy agreement by cross-examining a third party's motion to disclose is not extreme measures. It's an integral part of one's duty according to the conditions set forth by the agreement.

Furthermore, a motion to disclose is not a court order.

To be fair to TSI, of course.

Atticka
join:2001-11-26
Montreal, QC

Atticka to JohnDoe187

Member

to JohnDoe187
said by JohnDoe187:

I hope your VPN drops and your TSI connection is exposed while you are pirating. Have fun fool.

Why do you constantly have the need to throw insults around? This is unwarranted, say your peace and move on.

Throwing insults, no matter how justified you feel in doing so, only serves to degrade your own credibility.

apvm
join:2003-02-14
London, ON
Linksys WRT1900AC
SmartRG SR505N
Huawei HG612

apvm to JonyBelGeul

Member

to JonyBelGeul
said by JonyBelGeul:

said by zinc:

To be fair to TSI, all their legal agreements with us customers says that if there's a court order, then they will comply. They do not say that they will take extreme measures to protect our privacy. And to date, there hasn't been a court order so nobody has any of our information.

It's really up to the court, I haven't seen any of the details, but if Voltage's evidence is as shabby as it has been described, then the court shouldn't be ordering TSI to disclose customer information. It's not up to TSI to decide that Voltage's evidence is crap.

It's not up to the court to cross-examine Voltage's motion to disclose. It's not the court's duty to do this. It's the defendant's duty to cross-examine the motion. In fact, without opposition, the court has no choice but to grant the motion as is.

Upholding one's part of a privacy agreement by cross-examining a third party's motion to disclose is not extreme measures. It's an integral part of one's duty according to the conditions set forth by the agreement.

Furthermore, a motion to disclose is not a court order.

To be fair to TSI, of course.

+1
JohnDoe187
join:2013-01-04

JohnDoe187 to Atticka

Member

to Atticka
Why do you feel the need intervene? Plus I don't expect anyone to take my word as I am not a lawyer or an expert... I'm just repeating what they are saying.
m3chen
join:2009-12-03
Toronto, ON

m3chen to zinc

Member

to zinc
@zinc:

Here's a thread I started a few weeks ago that explains what exactly TSI's legal obligations are with respect to our privacy:

»Re: Teksavvy and PIPEDA

Here's a snippet of my biggest problem with what is going on:

PIPEDA requires private-sector organizations to collect, use or disclose your personal information by fair and lawful means, with your consent, and only for purposes that are stated and reasonable.

They’re also obliged to protect your personal information through appropriate security measures, and to destroy it when it’s no longer needed for the original purposes.


Even with their TOS; they are obliged to protect your private information in PIPEDA and destroy their IP logs when they are no longer needed for their original and intended purpose (unless hidden somewhere in their TOS is that the intended purpose of IP logs is to allow third parties like Voltage to sue you). This is the point where you would want to consult a lawyer on whether or not TSI will be forced to live up to their privacy obligations. JMJimmy (one of the people named in the lawsuit) believe case law is against user on this one, but his case specifically points to a criminal case involving child pornography and law enforcement.
zinc
Premium Member
join:2004-02-17
Kitchener, ON

zinc to apvm

Premium Member

to apvm
I guess I'm a bit lacking in understanding of everything.

So in this case, since TSI has stated they won't oppose it, perhaps we as customers should be taking TSI to court to enforce our privacy agreement with them and prevent the disclosure?
JonyBelGeul
Premium Member
join:2008-07-31

JonyBelGeul to JohnDoe187

Premium Member

to JohnDoe187
I was a bit sarcastic in my last comment.

Seriously, to be fair to TSI, they've been good to me right up to this motion to disclose. To set the record straight, I didn't receive a notice email about the motion. However, this thing is huge, big, giant, humongus. It's about privacy for cheriss' sake. It's fundamental. It affects every gundam Canadian with an intarweb. It's not like TSI hiked the prices across the board by a couple bucks. We were pissed when they did that, weren't we? Yes, we were. But we pointed out just how many other ways TSI did the right thing by us. And we were right. TSI did right by us at every step, from low prices, to high quality services, to special services like MLPPP to bypass Bell's throttle (and that was huge all by itself), to fighting UBB/AVP and all that crap. It was like the little guys helping the other little guys.

But this thing, it's a ge-new-wine mistake. Set this thing straight gundamit.

Atticka
join:2001-11-26
Montreal, QC

Atticka to JohnDoe187

Member

to JohnDoe187
said by JohnDoe187:

Why do you feel the need intervene? Plus I don't expect anyone to take my word as I am not a lawyer or an expert... I'm just repeating what they are saying.

Its a new years resolution, I'm intervening because I can and I care.

If you want people to listen to you (I'm assuming that's your intent, otherwise we have no reason to be posting here), resorting to name calling is the last thing you should do. Calling someone a "fool" shows a lack of tact and will only serve to discredit your comments in general.
Atticka

Atticka to JonyBelGeul

Member

to JonyBelGeul
said by JonyBelGeul:

I was a bit sarcastic in my last comment.

Seriously, to be fair to TSI, they've been good to me right up to this motion to disclose. To set the record straight, I didn't receive a notice email about the motion. However, this thing is huge, big, giant, humongus. It's about privacy for cheriss' sake. It's fundamental. It affects every gundam Canadian with an intarweb. It's not like TSI hiked the prices across the board by a couple bucks. We were pissed when they did that, weren't we? Yes, we were. But we pointed out just how many other ways TSI did the right thing by us. And we were right. TSI did right by us at every step, from low prices, to high quality services, to special services like MLPPP to bypass Bell's throttle (and that was huge all by itself), to fighting UBB/AVP and all that crap. It was like the little guys helping the other little guys.

But this thing, it's a ge-new-wine mistake. Set this thing straight gundamit.

You make an excellent point!

But, lets take a step back and compare Teksavvy's past actions to this current issue.

Previously Teksavvy has fought for whats right for internet service and its customers.
-UBB\AVP
-Throttling\MLPPP
-CAPS

These are all technical in nature, specifically to do with internet service.

Now this, Copyright and privacy. This is not what Teksavvy is in business for, they have no reason for being pro or against Copyright notices and a decision either way does not affect their business model.

Privacy is a sticky situation, its a massive fight, much bigger than UBB or throttling that has MUCH wider consequences across Canada. I don't think Teksavvy has the resource or the fortitude to fight this fight, as a result they have backed down.
BigVe
join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI

BigVe to JohnDoe187

Member

to JohnDoe187
Privacy, Pirating....in your case it all boils out to same answer.By the way... I was just suggesting something that would maybe help You out in the future.Call me a fool if you like but in this case you are THE Fool