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me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Krisnatharok

Re: New benchmarks for th 8350 and 3570k/3770k. Weird results.

I hear ya man, if I had the money I would do the same thing. Not to mention he isn't even testing at the same clock speeds.



Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5

What are the clock speeds he's testing at? I can't watch the video just yet.



Krisnatharok
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Earth Orbit
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reply to me1212

said by me1212:

Not to mention he isn't even testing at the same clock speeds.

That wouldn't matter much. The 8350 an 3570K have different TDP and varying headroom, and the chip architecture is so different that making them the same clockspeed would not do anything towards removing a variable, except to prove that Ivy Bridge's design and architecture is far superior to Piledriver's.

It goes back to the "MOAR COREZ" or "MORE GHZ" myths. And is why the i3-3220 is such a fantastic little chip, despite being dual core.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Ghastlyone

4.5ghz for the 3570k, 5.01ghz(or something like that, just a tiny bit over 5ghz) for the 8350.


me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Krisnatharok

I know it would just remove that variable, and thats what I want to see because each chip overclocks differently. Some 3570k can hit 5ghz,and some 8350 can only hit 4.5ghz. I'd like a more apples to apples comparison than what we've gotten.



Krisnatharok
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Earth Orbit
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reply to me1212

said by me1212:

4.5ghz for the 3570k, 5.01ghz(or something like that, just a tiny bit over 5ghz) for the 8350.

Assuming he absolutely maxed out both under the same CPU cooler, that's a fair comparison. Everyone knows IB doesn't OC as well as SB, but has PCIe 3.0, USB3, faster clock-for-clock, etc.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

1 edit

True if he did do that then that is 100% a fair comparison; however, most people I have seen that use an h100(it looks like he was using that) can get 4.7ghz on the 3570k. I suppose he could have just gotten a chip that doesn't oc as well it happens.

Anyway, what I meant though was I would like to see how they preform when they are at the same speed just because I think it would be cool to see. Sure most of them wont have the same limit in the real world, but I think it would still be fun to see what would happen.

EDIT: found a couple things that supposedly show what the average oc for these chips are, for multiple types of cooling even.

»hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i5_3570k/
»hwbot.org/hardware/processor/fx_8350/



C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
reply to me1212

I find this rather interesting... most of all though, his video shows that the biggest differences where when playing while streaming your video output with the same results. I suppose in this case, how xsplit handles streaming a live game runnning seems to just be handled in a friendlier fashion on an FX8350 than it is on any of the Ivy Bridge i7's.

I just know that depressingly, I really wish that AMD's boards supported SLI proper. That and for the time being, none of theirs still have yet to implement PCI-E 3.0. Z77 & Ivy bridge boards all seem to also be as feature-lacking as well... and a case of where most of the time, you can't have an intel board that "has it all" unless you go with an X79-based board. Even there, you're still contending with the fact that intel has yet to make an Ivy Bridge-E chip, there's no conclusive support for PCI-E 3.0 on an x79-based platform, and - knowing intel - they'll release a new chipset to go with a (maybe) IB-E that would require replacing the motherboard to go that route.

I just know that for me, I try to get boards that are feature-complete, simply because I almost always end up using every available port; maybe not right away, but if it has it, I'll eventually end up using it. About the only thing I haven't really used much at all on my old 680i SLI board is the second NIC (for all but configuring a few wireless bridges - and even then, for maybe all of five minutes?), and the onboard audio once I got my X-Fi.
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Because, f*ck Sony



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

Modern ATI/AMD video card report themselves as PCIe 3.0 on X79 boards and modern nVidia boards don't due to drivers. Presumably you can force PCIe 3.0 operation on X79 / nVidia video card combos:

»hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1700629

»forums.geforce.com/default/topic···19-2012/

The nVidia excuse seems to be due to inconsistencies with respect to X79 motherboards and some Sandy Bridge-E processors.

I might give the " force-enable-gen3.exe" solution a try since I went from an HD 6870 to a GTX 670 but I suspect the difference between 5GT/s PCIe 2.0 and 8GT/s PCIe 3.0 isn't a problem that really needs fixing at this point. So for me if it isn't broken, I'm not going to try and fix it. Unless there is a noteworthy performance improvement due to PCIe 3.0 support "now" on a single GTX 670 then meh,.......and I suspect its meh.

I still question whether or not Intel will release a new chipset for Ivy Bridge-E. I'd personally like to see Intel add Thunderbolt support to X79 boards (or a new chipset) but they would either have to drop the Intel video requirement (unlikely IMO) or add Intel video to newer CPUs / boards.



C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

But that's just it... I thought it was the CPU that governed whether you could use PCI-E 3 or 2 on intel, since that's the word from just about every motherboard maker out there. And since there's no Ivy Bridge-E to know for sure, we can't verify if these x79 boards really can do PCI-E or are just saying they are.

And just my opine, but I fully expect intel to change socket and chipsets again if they ever do bother to make an Ivy Bridge-E.

That is one thing that has bothered me with the current state of z77 boards out there. It seems even to just get one Thunderbolt port, you suddenly lose a lot of available ports of every other type. Firewire is usually a casualty , as is at least half the sata and usb ports that are provided by those boards that don't. That's why as it stands, there really isn't a single z77 board I'd like enough to replace even my old 680i SLi.
--
Because, f*ck Sony



pizz
bye bye twc. hello Comcast.
Premium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
Reviews:
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1 edit
reply to me1212

well this could be the greatest conspiracy ever to hit the tech world! Below are pretty much the 'goto' sites, for reviewing. There's always a margin of error, between sites. But i'm sorry im gonna believe these type of sites, over the other.
»www.anandtech.com/show/6396/the-···tested/5

»techreport.com/review/23750/amd-···viewed/5

»www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/am···,18.html

»www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di···ml#sect0

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to C0deZer0

pcie 3.0 isn't needed right now. From what I've seen you need 5 way sli/cf(or 4 way sli with heavy physx use) with 7970/680 before 2.1 really gets bottle necked.

but I haven't tested it myself, my mobo only has 3 way sli capabilities(2 at 8x 1 at 4x) and I cant afford that many gpu any way.



C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

Maybe it's not needed now, but it will be.

Even the reviews I'd read way back when showed that while a geforce 6800 didn't exactly need the extra bandwidth of PCI-E 1.* over AGP8x, the 8800's certainly needed it, save for suffering a rather significant performance penalty.

I'd imagine it will be the same story two generations down the road. A GTX 680 might not need the extra bandwidth of PCI-E 3.0, but the 880 (or whatever it'll be called two generations later) will.
--
Because, f*ck Sony


me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

I get what you are saying, but I think it will be more two years before the bandwidth requirements more than double for the x80. since the 680 doesn't even use 1/2 of pcie 2.0. Still you have a good point, there is no reason for amd to not have it on their boards, especially since intel already was putting it on their boards when amd's latest chipset came out.



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to C0deZer0

said by C0deZer0:

But that's just it... I thought it was the CPU that governed whether you could use PCI-E 3 or 2 on intel, since that's the word from just about every motherboard maker out there. And since there's no Ivy Bridge-E to know for sure, we can't verify if these x79 boards really can do PCI-E or are just saying they are.

That's a gray area and I don’t know if we will ever get a satisfactory answer to those questions. My initial though was that there was errata in the earlier Sandy Bridge-E stepping preventing proper PCIe 3.0 support such as the VT-d issue that was corrected in the C2 stepping. nVidia suggests the issue is bigger then just the processors by implicating some of the motherboards without specificity. Intel just lists Sandy Bridge-E processors as having PCIe 2.0 support and Ivy Bridge processors as having PCIe 3.0 support:

»ark.intel.com/products/63697/Int···3_80-GHz

»ark.intel.com/products/70845/Int···3_50-GHz

»ark.intel.com/products/65523

said by C0deZer0:

And just my opine, but I fully expect intel to change socket and chipsets again if they ever do bother to make an Ivy Bridge-E.

I hear you but everything I have read suggest that the transition from Sandy Bridge-E to Ivy Bridge-E will be similar to that of Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge. That is to say the socket presumably will not change.

said by C0deZer0:

That is one thing that has bothered me with the current state of z77 boards out there. It seems even to just get one Thunderbolt port, you suddenly lose a lot of available ports of every other type. Firewire is usually a casualty , as is at least half the sata and usb ports that are provided by those boards that don't. That's why as it stands, there really isn't a single z77 board I'd like enough to replace even my old 680i SLi.

Well there are obviously bandwidth limitations with respect to Z77 motherboards. Its easy to say that there are no perfect motherboards but your right there are some serious limitations on the choices out there for Z77, X79 and so on. Even if Ivy Bridge-E comes with new motherboards / chipsets with PCIe 3.0 support, native USB 3.0, 6 or more native SATA 3G ports, Thunderbolt (and the kitchen sink) it will be a pricey solution that many will not or cannot consider.


El Quintron
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said by Octavean:

it will be a pricey solution that many will not or cannot consider.

I think it depends where users are in their upgrade cycle as well... when PC buying time comes around, I can afford a fair bit, but it has to be a substantial gain .

I can't see myself going from Ivy Bridge to Ivy Bridge-E.

EQ
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Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

said by El Quintron:

said by Octavean:

it will be a pricey solution that many will not or cannot consider.

I think it depends where users are in their upgrade cycle as well... when PC buying time comes around, I can afford a fair bit, but it has to be a substantial gain .

I can't see myself going from Ivy Bridge to Ivy Bridge-E.

EQ

Still you have to consider that Sandy Bridge-E was released with three processors:

Core i7 3960X (6 cores 12 threads unlocked) - ~$1000+ USD
Core i7 3930K (6 cores 12 threads unlocked) - ~$630+ USD
Core i7 3820 (4 cores / 8 threads quasi unlocked) - ~$300 USD

The average user is unwilling to spend ~$640 to ~$1000+ USD on the processor alone. Also take note that X79 / C602 LGA2011 motherboards also tended to cost more at the time as well and some still do.

The entry level Core i7 3820 wasnt available during the initial release, wasnt really unlocked and had no clear advantage over previously available 4 core 8 thread Core i7 processors,.....

There is also every reason to believe that the Ivy Bridge-E release will be similar to the past Sandy Bridge-E release with respect to model of processors and price. So while you may be willing to pay such prices very few around you would. Instead most will opt to wait for Haswell.


El Quintron
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said by Octavean:

So while you may be willing to pay such prices very few around you would. Instead most will opt to wait for Haswell.

Even I would have waited in most circumstances, but arguably it comes back to how badly I would have needed an upgrade.

Assuming I still had my P45 system (P5Q/Q6700), and I had not opted to go Ivy Bridge, Ivy Bridge-E might have been tempting, especially if I had money to spare (eg: Tax return/Year end bonus)

I'll agree they're way too expensive though.
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Krisnatharok
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Earth Orbit
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reply to me1212

said by me1212:

pcie 3.0 isn't needed right now. From what I've seen you need 5 way sli/cf(or 4 way sli with heavy physx use) with 7970/680 before 2.1 really gets bottle necked.

but I haven't tested it myself, my mobo only has 3 way sli capabilities(2 at 8x 1 at 4x) and I cant afford that many gpu any way.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. Please don't spread rumor like this, and don't speculate if you don't know anything about it.

This is dual-GPU only on Battlefield 3--you can see the difference between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0 (essentially the difference between two 3.0 lanes running at 8x and 16x) as the resolution increases.

At 1080p, the difference is neglible, but @ 3x 1080p, it makes a huge difference. And this is just 2x GTX 680s.



Source: »www.reddit.com/r/gamingpc/commen···#c4aakyy

Familiarize yourself with the GaPC and BaPC subreddits. Try to say the same thing there you said here--you will be instantly banned.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Really sorry about that, I was just going off of stuff I'd seen a couple weeks ago. I'll make sure to double check before I talk about it again.

I'd rather not go to reddit though, heck I'd rather do about anything than go there.



Krisnatharok
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Earth Orbit
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said by me1212:

I'd rather not go to reddit though, heck I'd rather do about anything than go there.

There is some really good, thorough information on Reddit, and there are a lot of knowledgeable enthusiasts and industry experts there as well (the GaPC sub pretty much requires you to be an expert--they love to ban the fanboys and the uninformed).

Once you unsub from the atheism and politics subs (why I originally created an account), the site becomes more bearable. netsec, technology, gamingPC, buildaPC, truegaming, pcgaming,overclocking, and pcgamingtechsupport are all worthwhile places to frequent.

Every subreddit is it's only little kingdom, so it's hard to dismiss the entire site out of hand.

They have some great PC building guides, as well.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


El Quintron
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1 recommendation

said by Krisnatharok:

Once you unsub from the atheism and politics subs (why I originally created an account), the site becomes more bearable.

What could possibly go wrong with a bunch of highly anonymized people talking about politics and atheism?
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Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

And cats.



Blockfire
Sarcasm is my native tongue

join:2010-02-11
Wichita, KS
kudos:1

said by Krisnatharok:

And cats.

yes, definitely lots of cats

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Krisnatharok

Yeah, but if I start going on a couple of my friends will star constantly linking me to pony subreddits.



Krisnatharok
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reply to me1212

More feedback:

»www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/commen···what_he/


me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

He really does make some good points in his post. A higher ended amd system(mobo wise at least) going against a low end intel. Sure it may not be THAT much difference but eh I would say you should use components that are as comparable as possible when doing this stuff. not to mention how the 7870 and 670 preformed so similarly, and they couldn't replicate his results.