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LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to jsouth

Re: Doors

Apples and Oranges argument about the safety of inward vs. outward swing doors...

Emergency exits are required to be out swinging so that in a panic or emergency situation, a crush of people trying to get out won't prevent the door from opening.

Regular entrance/exits can be either way; although traffic flows work better with in-swinging on entrance, out-swinging on exit.

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove... Once the hinge side is free, it doesn't matter what kind of latch or deadbolt is on the other side. You can also get tools into the gap between the door and jamb easier on an outswing door, if you want to try and brute-force it; but reinforced jambs and door edges can minimize that risk.

At the end of the day, doors and locks keep honest or lazy people out - if they really want in, they are getting in... Regardless of what the door is made of.

@cdru - I've taken the Brotherhood Instructors Forcible entry course (that your video is from...) - by the end of the course, there isn't a commercial or residential door out there, that can't be breached in under a minute or two...


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

said by robbin:

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Exterior or interior hinge pins can be removed.

The jam pin with a keyed deadbolt removes that opportunity (at least makes it very hard) to slide/slip/pry the door out.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

Properly installed exterior hinges with non-removable pins would be very hard to remove.

Interior or exterior, security hinge bolts complete the project with the double keyed deadbolt.

»www.amazon.com/SECURITY-HINGE-PL···ge+bolts



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to robbin

said by robbin:

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

For an outswinging door, the hinges are exposed, right? The hinge pins (even in security hinges) are your weak spot - a 5# sledge and a halligan bar will pop the pins in 2-3 hits usually. If, for some reason you can't take the pins, you can always just cut the exposed portion of the hinge off, pin and all. Even with security pins/bolts in the hinge; the door is fairly easily popped - you only need about 1/4" of movement to clear the pin.

Don't get me wrong - the techniques for forced entry I know are effective, not subtle... Pounding with a sledge and halligan, cutting hinges, using a K-tool or slide hammer to remove deadbolts, etc are going to attract a LOT of attention. I'm trained to get in fast, not quietly... LOL


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to mityfowl

said by mityfowl:

said by robbin:

said by LazMan:

As for the security - outward swinging doors are easier to break into - the hinges are exposed, and even security hinges aren't that difficult to remove...

I'm curious how you would remove a hinge with the door closed?

Exterior or interior hinge pins can be removed.

The jam pin with a keyed deadbolt removes that opportunity (at least makes it very hard) to slide/slip/pry the door out.

It's all about making the thief go to the neighbors.

You can't stop a pro


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

That's pretty much it... Make someone else's house look like an easier target.