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TechnoGeek
join:2013-01-07

1 recommendation

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Re: Vicious circle

I agree. Your posts are very entertaining. Farce has always been very in.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

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said by TheMG:

said by Camelot One:

His point seemed pretty clear to me. He is willing to pay the $15 a month fee for HBO, just not the $60 a month cable subscription just for the ability to pay another $15 for HBO. Sell him HBO directly for $15, and he will buy.

That is an excellent point.

Personally I will NEVER subscribe to a streaming service that also requires me to subscribe to traditional TV (satellite/cable). That completely defeats the purpose of internet streaming in the first place, which is to dump traditional TV in favor of a service that is more portable, flexible, and on-demand.

The funny thing is for HBO, They would not lose any revenue if people cut the cord and bought HBO Go instead. HBO is already a premium channel that people pay around $15 for on top of their cable bill.
crypt0
join:2012-12-22
Edmonton, AB

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said by ITALIAN926:

Bullshit ! Stop breaking the damn law.

You are the bullshiter.

17 U.S.C. ยง 107
quote:
the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

LMAO "RESEARCH" used in the context teaching, classroom, and scholarship?. You are RESEARCHING on whether or not you enjoy the movie?

You Pirates are hysterical, truly.
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

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said by ITALIAN926:

If you dont want to pay for HBO, if you cant afford it, if you dislike their streaming option, DONT WATCH IT.

Tired of the underlying message of endorsing piracy, on almost every headline.

Yeah, why don't we all just ignore the fact that technology has made the old distribution model obsolete because it's against the law.

If we had it your way on transportation of goods, we'd still be using canals instead of trains.

Something better came along, i'm over it, you should get over it too.

For those whom might not have gotten my canals vs railroads reference, read this and see if you can find the similarities:

»voices.yahoo.com/railroa ··· 882.html

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Yea, you should ignore it because its against the laws, BECAUSE ITS ILLEGAL. Just like you have cars that can surpass the speed limit. You want to take a chance and speed, go right ahead.

If the copyright holders want to make their product available via the net, Netflix, Itunes, IPTV providers , etc, Thats their prerogative. Its unlawful, and it should be immoral as well to just TAKE whatever the hell you want.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

And if the copyright holders do not want to make their stuff available online they deserve to suffer the piracy.

The simple fact is HBO could offer HBO Go without tethering it to an existing cable subscription, They do it overseas already. Lots of people would be willing to pay the mere $15 a month for HBO content, After all if they have cable they would be paying about that extra to get HBO anyway. IF they can do it outside the US there is no reason in any form of logic preventing them from doing it inside the US as well.

If I where an investor I would be asking why they are avoiding that revenue stream.
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

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said by ITALIAN926:

Yea, you should ignore it because its against the laws, BECAUSE ITS ILLEGAL. Just like you have cars that can surpass the speed limit. You want to take a chance and speed, go right ahead.

If the copyright holders want to make their product available via the net, Netflix, Itunes, IPTV providers , etc, Thats their prerogative. Its unlawful, and it should be immoral as well to just TAKE whatever the hell you want.

*yawn*
Are you really using the speed limit as an analogy?
I guarantee you that EVERYONE here has gone over the speed limit more than once, that's just for starters.
Never mind the fact that reckless driving endangers people's lives.

I don't believe you are that dense that you don't get it, but here it is in caps so you don't miss it:

SOMETHING BETTER CAME ALONG.

And the analogy i posted is a damn good one. Because this is simply history repeating itself, and guess what?
Rail roads won in the end.
This is exactly the same thing happening, except this time we're not talking about transportation of goods. But instead information abundance versus scarcity.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, or anyone else thinks, so you might as well accept it. We're going into an era of abundance, and information is just the start.
Expand your moderator at work

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

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Re: Vicious circle

said by ITALIAN926:

Bullshit ! Stop breaking the damn law. HBO isnt breaking any laws by running their business how they see fit. You cant, and DONT compete with FREE.

"Give us your product for PENNIES or we'll just shoplift it anyway." What kind of crap is that? Seriously.

As i download the most recent Boardwalk Empire

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

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Netflix doesn't compete with free? Really? Are you just trolling, or......
KrK

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What's immoral and should be unlawful is how they just make the laws say whatever they want.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

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said by seamore:

said by ITALIAN926:

Bullshit ! Stop breaking the damn law. HBO isnt breaking any laws by running their business how they see fit. You cant, and DONT compete with FREE.

"Give us your product for PENNIES or we'll just shoplift it anyway." What kind of crap is that? Seriously.

As i download the most recent Boardwalk Empire

May I ask why you feel you are entitled to that episode that others PAY for? Are you special or something? Are you above rules?

DWraith
@comcast.net

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For most it isn't about the money. It is about being able to actually watch what you are paying for.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

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said by ITALIAN926:

"Give us your product for PENNIES or we'll just shoplift it anyway." What kind of crap is that? Seriously.

While I don't necessarily condone it, pirating an HBO show is not something tantamount to shoplifting. In shoplifting, one steals a physical product - which there are finite quantities of - which economically hurts the store owner who purchased the product for resale.

Those who pirate HBO shows (I'm not one of them, BTW) do little to no harm to HBO, as HBO's final product isn't affected... besides most of the folks who pirate this stuff likely wouldn't have bothered purchasing it in the first place (thus no profit would have been made from them).

Now, this isn't justification for pirating products in the slightest... Just my $0.02 on where the shoplifting analogy that you offered breaks down.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 edit

ITALIAN926

Member

It doesnt break down, because when someone is pirating something, they are less inclined to subscribe to that channel, or buy an album, etc. If everyone and their mother used torrents, dont you think HBO would go out of business?

The shoplifting analogy is fine.

It costs money to produce this media. I would argue its no different than having to pay for water or electricity. Would you bypass your water or electric meter? I guess that wouldnt be classified as stealing either, right? What about going into a cable tap and hooking up coax into your house? Not stealing either right? Its just information.

Theres no justification in breaking these laws. People can cherry-coat them all they want, but in the end, its still illegal.

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

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said by 88615298:

said by seamore:

said by ITALIAN926:

Bullshit ! Stop breaking the damn law. HBO isnt breaking any laws by running their business how they see fit. You cant, and DONT compete with FREE.

"Give us your product for PENNIES or we'll just shoplift it anyway." What kind of crap is that? Seriously.

As i download the most recent Boardwalk Empire

May I ask why you feel you are entitled to that episode that others PAY for? Are you special or something? Are you above rules?

Im special.
Besides, it's not going to put them out of business.
sorry that you dont like hearing this.

torreny69
@rr.com

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Since I got Netflix I have pretty much stopped torrenting tv shows

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

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said by ITALIAN926:

It doesnt break down, because when someone is pirating something, they are less inclined to subscribe to that channel, or buy an album, etc. If everyone and their mother used torrents, dont you think HBO would go out of business?

The shoplifting analogy is fine.

It costs money to produce this media. I would argue its no different than having to pay for water or electricity. Would you bypass your water or electric meter? I guess that wouldnt be classified as stealing either, right? What about going into a cable tap and hooking up coax into your house? Not stealing either right? Its just information.

Theres no justification in breaking these laws. People can cherry-coat them all they want, but in the end, its still illegal.

I am not going to argue that piracy is right, or legal, or anything of the sort. But I do find major flaw in your argument. In every example you listed, there is product loss. Whether it be in the form of using electricity or water, there is a physical product that has to be produced PER USE, and is thus used PER USE. If someone shoplifts a CD, that CD is no longer available for purchase. And while not as severe, even in the case of cable theft, the extra tap degrades the signal to a degree, requiring more expense to deliver the product.

There is no such product harm or loss when it comes to someone downloading a TV show. No product is used, or made unavailable for sale to someone else. No additional cost is incurred by the creator if a copy is downloaded. Is it a lost sale? Maybe. But only if the downloader WOULD have paid for the TV show if that was the only way to watch it.

Not that any of that matters to THIS thread, since the issue at hand is HBO refusing to sell a product to those who want to buy it, thus encouraging them to obtain it as a download.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 edit

ITALIAN926

Member

One of my examples is stealing cable TV, how is that any different AT ALL from piracy?
Tapping into a cable tap DOES NOT degrade any signals. There is a specific Db loss outve that connection whether theres a hookup or not.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 edit

Camelot One

MVM

said by ITALIAN926:

One of my examples is stealing cable TV, how is that any different AT ALL from piracy?
Tapping into a cable tap DOES NOT degrade any signals. There is a specific Db loss outve that connection whether theres a hookup or not.

As a matter of fact, it does. The loss is small, but it is still a loss.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

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said by seamore:

Im special.
Besides, it's not going to put them out of business.
sorry that you dont like hearing this.

Gee if EVERYONE felt that way they WOULD go out of business. Now I know you're going to say "Well not everyone feels that way and they will pay". Which is my point. You feel like you're special and everyone should pay for YOUR entertainment. If you don't want to pay your are not entitled to the content PERIOD. Get some morals.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

2 edits

ITALIAN926

Member

They dont have morals, and thats the entire problem. I never thought to consider piracy because aside from being illegal, I know it negatively affects hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of jobs across various industries. They think they're above everyone else, as if they are smart to know about such things, but meanwhile, they are simply a bunch of dummies that dont see the bigger picture. Some of these Einsteins probably pirate religously, negatively impacting their OWN employment, but dont even realize it. Bunch of brains.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

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Actually, Netflix is competing with free. Let's say you want to watch a film online. You can:

A) Find a torrent to download the film. Now you need to wait for it to download and hope it's a good version and not one that someone shot with a shaky camera snuck into a movie theater. You've also got to hope that you don't download a file containing a virus. Finally, you've got to hope that the MPAA doesn't catch wind of your actions (because, thanks to BitTorrent, you shared the file out while you were downloading it).

or

B) You load the movie up on Netflix.

Option A is free but has many obstacles and dangers. Option B requires payment, but not that much ($8.99 a month) and you're pretty sure to get good quality (and no viruses or MPAA lawsuit letters).

So Netflix is competing with free (piracy) and winning. It's a lot easier to subscribe to Netflix than it is to be a pirate. If the content owners really wanted to destroy piracy, they'd put all their content onto Netflix streaming. Yes, a core group of pirates would remain (nothing would ever dissuade them), but most pirates would just go to the easier, less risky Netflix. (As a side benefit for the content owners, they'd get more money.)

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

The problem here is that you are applying logic to idiots. The MPAA companies still believe that getting $20 a movie from 10 people, and bitching about piracy costing them more sales, is somehow better than selling movies to 1000 people for $2 each.

It is the same issue the RIAA went through over $15-$20 CDs to a few people, or 99c tracks to millions.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Heres logic for ya Mr. Brain. If everyone pirated, there would be no money to make movies and shows. Move along now, nothing to see here.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

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I think Camelot One it the nail on the head. Why do I want to pay 60.00 a month for crap I don't want just to pay more for HBO? Last time I checked, you had to subscribe to HBO to get HBO go. Why not just pay for HBOG and stream it on your roku or dvd player? Because big cable doesn't want them to.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

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You're absolutely right. I also think the problem with both the RIAA and MPAA is one of control, not piracy. They want control over everything from the creation of the music/movie to where and how the people view it. Technology gives people freedom to watch movies and listen to music in many more ways. It also helps to make the RIAA/MPAA irrelevant which (of course) frightens the heads of the RIAA/MPAA. Therefore, instead of allowing this freedom to drive more sales - and possibly lead to their demise, the RIAA/MPAA try to tighten their control over the technology to slow down any progress and bleed as much money as they can out of the system for as long as they can.

Ironically, had they embraced technology instead of fighting it, the RIAA would have come up with a good online music solution during the Napster era. This would have prevented the whole file-sharing fight before it started and we'd likely be getting all of our movies/TV shows online from MPAA-Net now.

anakin1138
@electronicbox.net

anakin1138 to Camelot One

Anon

to Camelot One
said by Camelot One:

said by ITALIAN926:

You cant, and DONT compete with FREE.

Netflix would seem to prove otherwise.

Don't forget iTunes. iTunes proved otherwise as well with the music industry.

Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR

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I seldom pirate anymore. As to software, I don't at all anymore. If I do, I live by the motto of the scene "if you like it, buy it! If you don't, delete it!". There are many things I downloaded in the past for shits and giggles that wound up being a sale they would have never seen because I would have never thought it to be that good, if I didn't try it. The only things I like and don't buy are abandonware that has no outlet to buy legally(some really old stuff like 70s and 80s computing products) and they are no longer trying to make money off of.

A good example: One of the last things I pirated was for Android. In fact, I will name it: GrooveIP, as I am now the proud owner of a legal software license for this app. I was heavily despaired at the quality of many Android VoIP clients. I was sick of downloading legally free ones, only to be disappointed to death. Risked my money on a couple paid ones, but at least they were bad enough for me to see that quickly(some of the free ones had flaws that you had to run awhile for them to bite you, like losing incoming calls) and hit the refund button in time. So now I am at this point. I see a copy of GrooveIP and download it, expecting to delete it in disappointment and frustration. A few days later, it was still my favored client with superb call quality, perfect stability, great config options I needed, and very light on battery. I was expecting disappointment yet again, but I realized I found what I was looking for. I then uninstall it, only to go to Google Play and purchase the app because of my being grateful to the developer for creating such a great app. That was $5 that he would have never seen otherwise because the crap the software industry had been putting out had me quite cynical. Only other that wasn't crap was csipsimple, open source and legally free, but still didn't quite make me happy due to some flaws(not showstoppers like with most clients). But I found something perfect for my use that wasn't free and paid up in appreciation. I believe in a good dev/musician/company/studio making a living to feed their family with honest work. In my case, the piracy only hurt those trying to rip us, the consumer, off by pawning off crap on us at a high price. But it made sure a good developer got his dinner for an app that made my life easier. The street goes both ways and not all of us are without morals. Those that deliberately sell crap lack morals, just the same as the pirates that decide something they downloaded was good enough to keep and keep consuming, but not good enough to pay for.