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« Just encourages piracy..
This is a sub-selection from Vicious circle

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One to ITALIAN926

MVM

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Re: Vicious circle

said by ITALIAN926:

You cant, and DONT compete with FREE.

Netflix would seem to prove otherwise.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Wow, free Netflix, can you provide a subscription link for me?
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

said by ITALIAN926:

Wow, free Netflix, can you provide a subscription link for me?

I know you can read and understand context, so do it.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 edit

ITALIAN926

Member

Got it. NO Netflix isnt competing with FREE. Netflix is competing with the MSO's product. Big difference.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

Camelot One

MVM

said by ITALIAN926:

Lost me there BF

His point seemed pretty clear to me. He is willing to pay the $15 a month fee for HBO, just not the $60 a month cable subscription just for the ability to pay another $15 for HBO. Sell him HBO directly for $15, and he will buy.

That business model makes perfect sense. You get someone like Google to build a net player that "tunes" the various networks just like a TV, and let people subscribe to the ones they want. The only reason that isn't happening is that the content companies and the cable companies are all intertwined.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

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said by ITALIAN926:

Got it. NO Netflix isnt competing with FREE. Netflix is competing with the MSO's. Big difference.

Since Netflix has emerged people pirate less. FACT.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Citation?
slckusr
Premium Member
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC

slckusr

Premium Member

said by ITALIAN926:

Citation?

I do
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Citation?

According to a publication of internet research company Sandvine, Netflix is helping to fight piracy. Sandvine researched global internet traffic and noticed that torrent traffic decreases when the traffic generated by Netflix increases.

»www.myce.com/news/netfli ··· c-64722/
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

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Premium Member

to Camelot One
said by Camelot One:

His point seemed pretty clear to me. He is willing to pay the $15 a month fee for HBO, just not the $60 a month cable subscription just for the ability to pay another $15 for HBO. Sell him HBO directly for $15, and he will buy.

That is an excellent point.

Personally I will NEVER subscribe to a streaming service that also requires me to subscribe to traditional TV (satellite/cable). That completely defeats the purpose of internet streaming in the first place, which is to dump traditional TV in favor of a service that is more portable, flexible, and on-demand.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

said by TheMG:

said by Camelot One:

His point seemed pretty clear to me. He is willing to pay the $15 a month fee for HBO, just not the $60 a month cable subscription just for the ability to pay another $15 for HBO. Sell him HBO directly for $15, and he will buy.

That is an excellent point.

Personally I will NEVER subscribe to a streaming service that also requires me to subscribe to traditional TV (satellite/cable). That completely defeats the purpose of internet streaming in the first place, which is to dump traditional TV in favor of a service that is more portable, flexible, and on-demand.

The funny thing is for HBO, They would not lose any revenue if people cut the cord and bought HBO Go instead. HBO is already a premium channel that people pay around $15 for on top of their cable bill.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to ITALIAN926

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to ITALIAN926
Netflix doesn't compete with free? Really? Are you just trolling, or......

torreny69
@rr.com

torreny69

Anon

Since I got Netflix I have pretty much stopped torrenting tv shows

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

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Actually, Netflix is competing with free. Let's say you want to watch a film online. You can:

A) Find a torrent to download the film. Now you need to wait for it to download and hope it's a good version and not one that someone shot with a shaky camera snuck into a movie theater. You've also got to hope that you don't download a file containing a virus. Finally, you've got to hope that the MPAA doesn't catch wind of your actions (because, thanks to BitTorrent, you shared the file out while you were downloading it).

or

B) You load the movie up on Netflix.

Option A is free but has many obstacles and dangers. Option B requires payment, but not that much ($8.99 a month) and you're pretty sure to get good quality (and no viruses or MPAA lawsuit letters).

So Netflix is competing with free (piracy) and winning. It's a lot easier to subscribe to Netflix than it is to be a pirate. If the content owners really wanted to destroy piracy, they'd put all their content onto Netflix streaming. Yes, a core group of pirates would remain (nothing would ever dissuade them), but most pirates would just go to the easier, less risky Netflix. (As a side benefit for the content owners, they'd get more money.)

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

The problem here is that you are applying logic to idiots. The MPAA companies still believe that getting $20 a movie from 10 people, and bitching about piracy costing them more sales, is somehow better than selling movies to 1000 people for $2 each.

It is the same issue the RIAA went through over $15-$20 CDs to a few people, or 99c tracks to millions.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Heres logic for ya Mr. Brain. If everyone pirated, there would be no money to make movies and shows. Move along now, nothing to see here.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

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Member

to TheMG
I think Camelot One it the nail on the head. Why do I want to pay 60.00 a month for crap I don't want just to pay more for HBO? Last time I checked, you had to subscribe to HBO to get HBO go. Why not just pay for HBOG and stream it on your roku or dvd player? Because big cable doesn't want them to.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

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You're absolutely right. I also think the problem with both the RIAA and MPAA is one of control, not piracy. They want control over everything from the creation of the music/movie to where and how the people view it. Technology gives people freedom to watch movies and listen to music in many more ways. It also helps to make the RIAA/MPAA irrelevant which (of course) frightens the heads of the RIAA/MPAA. Therefore, instead of allowing this freedom to drive more sales - and possibly lead to their demise, the RIAA/MPAA try to tighten their control over the technology to slow down any progress and bleed as much money as they can out of the system for as long as they can.

Ironically, had they embraced technology instead of fighting it, the RIAA would have come up with a good online music solution during the Napster era. This would have prevented the whole file-sharing fight before it started and we'd likely be getting all of our movies/TV shows online from MPAA-Net now.

anakin1138
@electronicbox.net

anakin1138 to Camelot One

Anon

to Camelot One
said by Camelot One:

said by ITALIAN926:

You cant, and DONT compete with FREE.

Netflix would seem to prove otherwise.

Don't forget iTunes. iTunes proved otherwise as well with the music industry.

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

Uncle Paul to Camelot One

Member

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I don't think people will be willing to pay $15 for Netflix and $15 for HBO. At that point you've past the threshold of pain that moves people to piracy. People can, and do compete with free when they provide an simple integrated approach for a decent price.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 edit

ITALIAN926

Member

Wow, the "competing with free" concept, mentioned again. Why does this exist? Because right now its a pain to get stolen content to those big ole TV's. Just wait till STB's that stream stolen content to TV's are released. (which should be illegal btw)

Netflix has like 20+ million subscribers. Now what % of them do you think came from previous PAY TV companies, what % do you think came from the moral-free Torrent community?

Id like you to build a lemonade stand next to mine, you charge $10 a cup, and at my stand, Im selling it for the rock-bottom price of $0. See how well you do.

Competing with free, what an intelligent concept.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 edit

Camelot One

MVM

Do you by chance work for the MPAA? If not, you should consider applying for a position. Your blatant closed mindedness and unwillingness to even consider that people are willing to purchase what they want, would make you a perfect fit for the current industry.

And since we have 4 full pages of discussion on a topic you started to say shouldn't be discussed, I will now now bow out. My work here is done.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

You dont have to work for the MPAA to follow the rules and laws of this country.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25 to ITALIAN926

Member

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Really? I am pretty sure people made movies and entertained well before there were millions and billions to be made in the industry.

Same with music, same with doctors and same with just about any other industry that provides a service.

Your overall statement that people would just stop doing what they enjoy and know how to do because they can't make millions in it is downright ignorant and against all of history.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

dnoyeB to Kearnstd

Member

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Cable companies would loose revenue. That would negatively impact HBO/CableCo negotiations.

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

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Geez you just don't get it.

There are certain amount of risk, unknowns, and time involved with getting your free product. You have to know where to get the free product (not everyone knows how torrents or newsgroups work). For the non-advanced, there is an increased risk of getting malware or trojans. There are legal ramifications for infringement by downloading or sharing. The media may need to be trans coded to play on your player. The quality of the product is always an unknown.

or

Your mother can pick up many TVs, DVD, Bluray or other devices that will play Netflix. Easily sign up for an account get several options of how to get content (either DVD, BluRay, Streaming or any combination of the three) pricing from $9/month. With that subscription they get an easy to use interface, 0 risk to malware or trojans, 0 infringement liabilities, and a known constant quality with no need to transcode.

So 'free' in this case really isn't 'free' because it comes with 'baggage'. For many many people, this 'baggage' is worth a certain amount money. They would rather pay Netflix a certain rate not to have to deal with the 'baggage' that comes with 'free'. And this is how Netflix is beating 'free' with a paid service (as linked from Sandvine earlier).

The issue is what that price point is for content. At some point the price gets to a point where people are willing to put up with the 'baggage' that comes with 'free'. This has been Karl's point. When the price gets to high, or the technical restrictions become to great, people will no longer be willing to pay for content and go back to getting it from somewhere else.

Now when a STB is widely available that allows Joe User to simply stream torrents directly it will further push the threshold for free vs pay down as it removes some of the 'baggage', but not all. Joe may still be willing to pay to use Netflix just to steer clear of infringement issues. But currently such a STB isn't available.
« Just encourages piracy..
This is a sub-selection from Vicious circle