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rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to hmph

Re: TorIX Upgrade

traceroute to ## , 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 core1-london1-ge1-120.net.start.ca (64.140.120.1) 1.275 ms 0.268 ms 0.281 ms
2 core1-toronto1-te3-2.net.start.ca (64.140.112.86) 4.915 ms 5.778 ms 4.538 ms
3 gw-ovh.torontointernetxchange.net (206.108.34.189) 4.418 ms 7.607 ms 4.282 ms
4 mtl-2-6k.qc.ca (178.32.135.71) 22.669 ms 22.836 ms 22.479 ms
5 bhs-g2-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.7) 23.755 ms * 23.654 ms
6 bhs-1-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.14) 59.77 ms * 30.847 ms
7 ## 45.651 ms 23.579 ms 21.713 ms

hmph

join:2012-10-23
Alright, OVH's fault. Start is routing nicely. Time to complain to OVH...


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
are you actually seeing performance issues going from ovh to start? I ran some tests a few weeks ago and saw none. if ovh is having any capacity or performance issues going to start through TorIX you might not want them to statically route it.

hmph

join:2012-10-23

1 edit
OVH has 2x 10gbit connections to TorIX that generally peak at 10gbits. Start has 10gbit to TorIX with large amounts of spare capacity. I have already opened a ticket with OVH to make the change. In the end this should shave off ~10ms from the route. Why allow Bell to route the traffic all over the place when you can have a direct route between Start and OVH. It's a lot more cost effective and better for all end users performance wise including you. This is what TorIX is for after all...


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
i understand that, and usually providers will give preference to public/private peers to cut transit costs too so my concern is that they're avoiding TorIX for performance reasons.

I've talked to OVH network group a bit the last few months and managed to get TSI and OVH to setup a private peer at TorIX to get around bad performance through the public peer. They would likely be open setting up a private peer too with Start. If rocca's interested, he can reach their network group by contacting support@ovh.ca.

ultramancool

join:2004-12-22
Schenectady, NY
Uhh, trace from teksavvy to OVH, it goes through torix over public peering.

Tracing ...........*T
TTL LFT trace to XXXXXXX.cable.teksavvy.com (XX.XX.XX.XX):80/tcp
1 192.95.27.253 1.4ms
2 bhs-g1-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.13) 0.5ms
3 mtl-2-6k.qc.ca (198.27.73.4) 2.1ms
4 tor-1-6k.on.ca (178.32.135.70) 9.8ms
5 gw-teksavvy.torontointernetxchange.net (206.108.34.67) 8.9ms
6 2120.ae0.bdr02.tor.packetflow.ca (69.196.136.65) 65.3ms
7 richmond3.cable.teksavvy.com (24.52.255.74) 15.0ms


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to hmph
BGP makes path selection by prefix size, and then AS path length (not number of hops) and it appears they are directly connected to Bell in their Montreal DC, so their router looks at these options:

577 (Bell) -> 40788 (Start)
11670 (TorIX) -> 40788 (Start)

...so you have equal length paths, one you have to use your backhaul to Toronto for and one you get to dump off in Montreal. Before the holidays we sent them a direct peer request via the TorIX portal, didn't get a response - I'll followup sometime next week. If we did directly peer then the TorIX ASN becomes removed from the equation and it'd just look like:

577 40788
40788

...in which case the later would be selected (assuming they don't pad out their connection to Toronto).

k3d3

join:2013-01-18
reply to jmck
shaded, if start has a fairly little used 10gbit torix link and OVH has a half-used 20gbit (total) link, then you will pretty much be guaranteed a good link. In this case, performance is not the reason Bell is preferred. Also, this is on OVH's end, though you've also mentioned this.

rocca, I am currently with TekSavvy. If I switch to Start, do I incur the setup fee?

Thanks


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
said by k3d3:

If I switch to Start, do I incur the setup fee?

No if you have an active cable internet connection at the same address and just transferring it to us then there is no installation fee applicable.

Johny

join:2012-12-06
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to rocca
Looks like you guys got nlayer hooked up, and with that I've noticed a 70ms increase to a certain ip range that I use alot. What's up with that?

Tracing route to unknown.iad.scnet.net [75.102.43.162]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 16 ms 9 ms 10 ms 10.106.19.129
2 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 69.63.242.29
3 38 ms 11 ms 23 ms 69.63.249.173
4 17 ms 19 ms 23 ms v514.core1.tor1.he.net [216.66.0.53]
5 13 ms 12 ms 25 ms torix.tge2-3.ar1.tor1.ca.nlayer.net [206.108.34.
53]
6 75 ms 26 ms 25 ms xe-1-0-1.cr1.nyc3.us.nlayer.net [69.22.142.61]
7 32 ms 29 ms 38 ms xe-0-2-1.cr1.iad1.us.nlayer.net [69.22.142.92]
8 134 ms 148 ms 137 ms as23352.xe-1-3-0-101.cr1.iad1.us.nlayer.net [69.
31.30.21]
9 44 ms 60 ms 46 ms 50.ae0.cr2.iad1.us.scnet.net [64.202.119.69]
10 38 ms 33 ms 42 ms as36352.ge-1-1-5.cr2.iad1.us.scnet.net [75.102.4
3.122]
11 119 ms 116 ms 122 ms unknown.iad.scnet.net [75.102.43.162]

Trace complete.


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
They did not.

As you can see its going HE.net then NLAYER.

There is no direct connection to NLayer yet.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to Johny
nLayer isn't up yet, but the problem you're seeing appears to be with Server Central - ie the link between hop 10 and 11. The higher latency on hop 8 is likely just a lower prioritization on ICMP traffic since the hops behind it are showing good latency and of course traffic to hop 9 had to go through hop 8.

Johny

join:2012-12-06
reply to rocca
Hmmm yeah that 8th hop is always hovering 130ms. Nothing on your end rocca? This is poo


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to rocca
Could also be one hop up:

core1-toronto1>ping 64.202.119.69

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 64.202.119.69, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 16/17/20 ms
core1-toronto1>ping 75.102.43.122

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 75.102.43.122, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 108/113/120 ms

...but whatever it is, looks like it's in scnet's network.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to Johny
said by Johny:

Hmmm yeah that 8th hop is always hovering 130ms. Nothing on your end rocca? This is poo

Sorry, no, we don't have much influence 8 hops out.

Johny

join:2012-12-06
Ah alright. yeah seems like I'm the only one getting the high ping. my friends on rogers and bell are pinging fine


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
said by Johny:

Ah alright. yeah seems like I'm the only one getting the high ping. my friends on rogers and bell are pinging fine

Different route probably


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Hard to say, some times it's great, ie I just pinged that last IP and now it's in 20ms from the core.

core1-toronto1#ping 75.102.43.162

Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 75.102.43.162, timeout is 2 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 20/24/28 ms

It's possible they have more than one uplink to nLayer and one is saturated and one isn't, if so it'd be hit or miss which return path you'd take depending on LACP/CEF splits.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
Only way to know for sure what's happening is via traceroutes in the opposite direction, ie from that server back to you.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
said by rocca:

Only way to know for sure what's happening is via traceroutes in the opposite direction, ie from that server back to you.

you'll also get a better idea of where the problem is if you run mtr instead of just traceroute, mtr combines ping and traceroute for each hop and you should let it run for ~10-20 seconds.

Johny

join:2012-12-06
reply to rocca
yeah I donno, started yesterday and is still going on. I'll see if I can get a tracert from the server

merc782

join:2012-11-19
reply to rocca
Rocca,

Seeing Traffic routing via Cogent

»bgp.he.net/AS40788#_asinfo

is this a new 1gig transit ? plz enlighten us with details


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
No we've had that forever. nLayer is the new one coming online, it was supposed to be up this week but should be up next. Just completing the cross-connection at 151 Front.

merc782

join:2012-11-19
sorry for the confusion, was looking for nlayer, confused it with cogent. Tx for the update


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to hmph
We have a direct peering relationship with OVH now.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
said by rocca:

We have a direct peering relationship with OVH now.

that's pretty sweet, glad you're both interested in improving network connectivity like this.

                                                 My traceroute  [v0.80]
kif.mckill.ca (0.0.0.0)                                                                        Tue Jan 29 10:56:04 2013
Keys:  Help   Display mode   Restart statistics   Order of fields   quit
                                                                               Packets               Pings
 Host                                                                        Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 142.4.213.253                                                             0.0%     1    0.6   0.6   0.6   0.6   0.0
 2. bhs-g1-6k.qc.ca                                                           0.0%     1   44.5  44.5  44.5  44.5   0.0
 3. mtl-2-6k.qc.ca                                                            0.0%     1    1.8   1.8   1.8   1.8   0.0
 4. tor-1-6k.on.ca                                                            0.0%     1    8.6   8.6   8.6   8.6   0.0
 5. gw-startcomm.torontointernetxchange.net                                   0.0%     1    8.6   8.6   8.6   8.6   0.0
 6. core1-london1-ge1-1801.net.start.ca                                       0.0%     1   12.5  12.5  12.5  12.5   0.0
 7. ws01-010.start.ca                                                         0.0%     1   12.5  12.5  12.5  12.5   0.0
 


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to merc782
said by merc782:

sorry for the confusion, was looking for nlayer, confused it with cogent. Tx for the update

nLayer is up too now.


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by rocca:

said by merc782:

sorry for the confusion, was looking for nlayer, confused it with cogent. Tx for the update

nLayer is up too now.

Ping times are looking good through nLayer :)

Tracing route to singlehop.com [184.154.60.210]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     8 ms     8 ms     9 ms  10.106.193.1
  3    17 ms    19 ms    19 ms  69.63.254.205
  4    25 ms    23 ms    23 ms  24.156.146.121
  5    17 ms    15 ms    15 ms  ip-69-31-143-105.nlayer.net [69.31.143.105]
  6    17 ms    16 ms    26 ms  ge-0-2-9.cr1.mtl1.ca.nlayer.net [69.31.143.24]
  7    29 ms    30 ms    29 ms  xe-0-1-1.cr2.ord1.us.nlayer.net [69.22.142.77]
  8    31 ms    33 ms    33 ms  ae2-20g.ar1.ord6.us.nlayer.net [69.31.110.254]
  9    38 ms    29 ms    29 ms  as32475.ae7.ar1.ord6.us.nlayer.net [69.31.111.30]
 10    31 ms    32 ms    29 ms  asw-ds116.ord03.singlehop.net [173.236.77.102]
 11    31 ms    29 ms    31 ms  web05.singlehop.net [184.154.60.210]
 
Trace complete.
 
----------
 
Pinging singlehop.com [184.154.60.210] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 184.154.60.210: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=54
Reply from 184.154.60.210: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=54
Reply from 184.154.60.210: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=54
Reply from 184.154.60.210: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=54
 
Ping statistics for 184.154.60.210:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 28ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 28ms
 

dan mackay

join:2008-10-11
Barrie, ON
reply to rocca
such a shame my vps uses internap and routes over he


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
hey rocca, is Start peering with Akamai at TorIX? right now it seems Akamai is serving me from somewhere else.