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ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia
reply to Link Logger

Re: Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz found dead.

As public access used to be about going to the library and cheap access was just a library card sign up and card fee away folks could easily access/afford the knowledge they seek.
The video shows how that access is now, online only, and out for a bigger (far bigger) slice of it. Library's are changing and most of us hoped that our computer via internet would vastly improve this, with the exceptions, journals are not one of them.
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Link Logger
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reply to ashrc4

said by ashrc4:

said by Link Logger:

Content creators have every right to their content and if they choose to make it private, then what right does someone else have to decide otherwise.

DNA even gets copy written, and the journals on that for a small price would be o.k. but certain types of knowledge (like DNA) should be free to all those that could do/lead to betterment for us all. Not saying all of it, but some form of change from those that use our/peoples money to do this type of research should have a fairer system in place ahead of their personal profits. I guessing thats inline with how Aaron saw it.

Knowledge is often a double edge sword, DNA research, could be a benefit, might not be. For example finding an easy test for DNA markers for some forms of cancer, good, using DNA programming to create a race of super humans, maybe not good particularly if they are intent on enslaving 'lessor' humans. Sometimes its the shear costs of research that is the controlling factor and enables society to determine what research it wants.

The other question always comes down to who gets to decide what is beneficial? Aaron Swartz thought free information would be beneficial, whereas I think it would kill the creation of new information. For every successful inventor who makes a million, there are million inventors who ended fin the red, take away the reward and the remaining untouched risk kills the motivation.

I find it amazing that in our world of run away consumerism that people now expect free knowledge like its going to save them or something. The fact is people just don't value anything anymore as everything is just given to them without any real effort on their behalf and its killing them, society and the the planet. Maybe its time for expectations to change.

Blake
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ashrc4
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1 edit

said by Link Logger:

The fact is people just don't value anything anymore as everything is just given to them without any real effort on their behalf and its killing them, society and the the planet. Maybe its time for expectations to change.

I agree with all the of last post and the quote too although as separate from each other???

My ideas may be deemed to radical on the solution side to the quote, so i won't mention them.
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Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT!


ashrc4
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australia
reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger See Profileq :

The other question always comes down to who gets to decide what is beneficial? Aaron Swartz thought free information would be beneficial, whereas I think it would kill the creation of new information. For every successful inventor who makes a million, there are million inventors who ended fin the red, take away the reward and the remaining untouched risk kills the motivation.

Is it fair that an unsuccessful outgoing CEO gets a 10 million handshake whilst and leader in research only gets profits by tying up copyright on his findings. The brain drain saga continues.
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Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT!


Link Logger
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reply to ashrc4

The problem with the internet is its a stupid machine, its a tool, little more then dumb hammer. Anyone can voice any opinion or post information which can run the full spectrum of brilliant to harmful and the internet doesn't care, nor is it meant to care as some folks are dead set against censoring anything and given the internet is global it sadly tends to sink to the lowest levels of world expectations or opinions, it rarely rises. Even some total whack group is free to spew their agenda of totally craziness from somewhere, but on the upside you don't have to read or agree with everything that is on the internet. Of course lots of groups like to label you with something if you don't agree with them as some kind of badge of 'human deficiency' (you are a insert-whatever-here) and that tendency hasn't been lost on the internet.

Now given the internet is simply a dumb machine it means it can also be manipulate or its behavior be forecasted so people with agenda's (which pretty much includes everyone on the planet) can use and does use it to promote their agenda whatever it maybe.

If you want to shape the world, don't waste your time on the present, its pretty much cast in stone, shape the future. So trying to shape the internet isn't likely to get very far, shape what comes after the internet.

Blake
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Link Logger
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reply to ashrc4

said by ashrc4:

Is it fair that an unsuccessful outgoing CEO gets a 10 million handshake whilst and leader in research only gets profits by tying up copyright on his findings. The brain drain saga continues.

Fair is a fairy tale, humans work via contracts (formal or otherwise) and even then they are often pooched. That CEO got a golden handshake because someone agreed to it as terms of their employment and no one opposed it (hello shareholders for example), so in the opinion of those making the decision the terms were agreeable. How many people really care that the CEO or owners of Walmart are making buckets of dough, apparently not many as Walmart gives them what they want, cheap stuff, so in a sense everyone is happy with how the system works.

I would agree that our world values are completely screwed and innovation and artist pursuits are vastly undervalued, but again people have proven repeatedly that those things are of little value (ie they don't want to invest in them), or they don't value the work and take them without payment or otherwise ignore the terms of the copyright.

I'm not sure there is a brain drain as I think its just not worth it to be a brain anymore, hence declining involvement/enrollments in those areas.

Blake
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Just Bob
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Spring Hill, FL

Once upon a time long ago and far away, universities published the scientific journals. We outgrew that system and the system didn't really work all that well anyhow as the number of journals exploded. What we have now is a continuing privatization, commercialization and monetization of knowledge and the universities themselves.

Those who are connected to universities or have access to major libraries that subscribe to JSTOR have free and easy access. Others can only gain access at great expense. The number of public libraries subscribing to JSTOR has decreased as the cost has increased.

Part of the problems is that one size doesn't fit all. What may work for MPAA and the RIAA doesn't work for all intellectual property. It almost seems as if big money is trying to corner the market on knowledge.

You may see thing differently. That's okay. It's good to have choices.
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Kearnstd
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reply to Link Logger

the CEO pay issue is the same as the movie stars make too much issue.

As long as a hand full of employers are willing to pay the millions they will be able to hire those asking the millions.

And really once you exit the banking industry nobody cares what the CEO makes. And people only care about the banks because it was their tax dollars that allowed the banks to not go chapter 11.
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Link Logger
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reply to Just Bob

said by Just Bob:

Once upon a time long ago and far away, universities published the scientific journals. We outgrew that system and the system didn't really work all that well anyhow as the number of journals exploded. What we have now is a continuing privatization, commercialization and monetization of knowledge and the universities themselves.

Simply because the public doesn't want to pay for it, so Universities increasing turn to corporations for funding. Research has been this way pretty much forever. You might have a brilliant idea but who is going to fund your research into that idea? How do you get 'public' money to do your research or is that even possible? Things like »www.kickstarter.com/ are certainly interesting as its a way to fund/build a product/project/etc and have the public fund it and somehow reward those who helped make it possible, but even then its limited as to how much funding can be raised and most kickstarted projects end up not making it.

said by Just Bob:

Those who are connected to universities or have access to major libraries that subscribe to JSTOR have free and easy access. Others can only gain access at great expense. The number of public libraries subscribing to JSTOR has decreased as the cost has increased.

Again I would ask why do researchers subscribe to it at the price they charge, because it provides value for the money. Why do they submit papers to it, because that is where their peers look for qualified papers. Simply it works for their industry, so it continues to be the system of choice.

said by Just Bob:

Part of the problems is that one size doesn't fit all. What may work for MPAA and the RIAA doesn't work for all intellectual property. It almost seems as if big money is trying to corner the market on knowledge.

I'm not sure big money is trying to corner the market, or they are the only ones who can or are willing to invest in research and having multiple processes only tend to make things more expensive and confusing as how do you decide who uses what process and when and how do you make it fair and fair in who's eyes. For example private schools, some feel they are unfair others feel they are fair, but they are a solution to the one size doesn't fit all.

said by Just Bob:

You may see thing differently. That's okay. It's good to have choices.

Choices are good.

Now I used to be a researcher and created ideas that lead to products and companies etc but found out that I hated it, as a researcher my interest was in the product and how it worked for people, however investors/shareholders/etc only cared about how much money they were going to make and so that is what ultimately ends up driving and unless there are people who are willing to pay researchers without expectation of return, that is the system which will remain in place. Certainly people like Bill Gates and his foundation have had some impact, but not enough to change things much.

Now I sit in my office and build little projects that I'm willing to fund myself and I might publish a paper or a blog entry, but likely not as its the idea creation process I love and so I do what makes me happy, but of course that means I don't make money off of these ideas, but making money came at a price I didn't really enjoy.

Blake
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ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia
reply to Link Logger

said by Link Logger:

said by ashrc4:

Is it fair that an unsuccessful outgoing CEO gets a 10 million handshake whilst and leader in research only gets profits by tying up copyright on his findings. The brain drain saga continues.

Fair is a fairy tale,.........

Fairer is a reality, fair is often a compromise for fairer..... which means the same......what?.......my last EMU told me that
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DownTheShore
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reply to PX Eliezer7

»www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21011663

The president of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has asked for an internal investigation into its role in Aaron Swartz's prosecution.

Academics have since taken to Twitter to release their research free in tribute to Mr Swartz, using the hashtag "PDFtribute".

»pdftribute.net/
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siljaline
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reply to PX Eliezer7

Prosecutor Dismisses Charges Against Aaron Swartz

quote:
Monday morning the government filed one last motion in United States of America v. Aaron Swartz.

“Pursuant to FRCP [Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure] 48(a), the United States Attorney for the District of Massachusetts, Carmen M. Ortiz, hereby dismisses the case presently pending against Defendant Aaron Swartz. In support of this dismissal, the government states that Mr. Swartz died on January 11, 2013.”


Just Bob
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Spring Hill, FL

»www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21011663

However, in a blog post, Orin Kerr, a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School, wrote the actions of the prosecutors had been "based on a fair reading of the law".

"None of the charges involved aggressive readings of the law or any apparent prosecutorial overreach," he said.

"All of the charges were based on established case law."
Some people apparently fail to realize there's a problem illustrated by that statement.
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"...an imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." Plutarch
Judging other people is easy. Understanding them can break your heart.


AVD
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no, this is how the law works.


Just Bob
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1 edit

said by AVD:

no, this is how the law works.

Yes. It does and that's the problem.

If he had robbed a bank armed with a gun, he would get 20 years. He would have had to fire the gun to get 25 years. He was facing 35 years for a TOS violation.

We have a body of law now that fails to discriminate between political activism and terrorism.
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"...an imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." Plutarch
Judging other people is easy. Understanding them can break your heart.

Just Bob
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reply to PX Eliezer7

I thought I might only post a few quotes since some people will discount the message based on the source. Please read with an open mind.

»www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/1···n-Swartz

Anonymous hacks MIT- tribute to Aaron Swartz~UPDATE~
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"...an imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." Plutarch
Judging other people is easy. Understanding them can break your heart.
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Just Bob
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1 edit

Re: Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz found dead.

NM

Expand your moderator at work

Just Bob
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1 edit

Re: Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz found dead.

NM

Expand your moderator at work

Just Bob
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1 edit

Re: Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz found dead.

NM



scelli
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2 edits

I'm a member and financial supporter of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention as well as the American Association of Suicidology and have numerous books on the subject in my own personal library.

Unfortunately, I'm also a member of a club nobody wants to join: The suicide survivor club. That does not mean I attempted suicide and survived, but instead means I've had an individual in my life who did indeed kill themselves. As a direct result of such a heartbreaking event, I (along with many, many others similarly affected) are left trying to pick up the pieces years and sometimes decades later. In my particular case, the needless death was a beautiful and compassionate 26-year old nurse in May of 1975, almost 38 years ago. This may sound trite, but there isn't a day I don't think of her. Back then, mental health issues were almost always swept underneath the carpet as an embarrassment and so was stigma of death by suicide. I was 7,000 miles away in the service when this tragedy occurred, but can personally vouch for the fact that after she took a fatal overdose of the prescription drugs Tofranil and Doriden (the first an antidepressant and the second a sleeping aid not even approved by the FDA any more) and was found sprawled across her bed hours later, my life was never the same. In fact my life was almost destroyed. It also would take decades before I could actually verify the real manner of her death as the stigma of a daughter committing suicide was simply too much for the family to go public with.

However: She made the conscious decision to do it, as much as it genuinely hurts me to admit that. Sometimes the pain of staying around is far greater then the pain of leaving, if you understand what is meant by that. I didn't know anything about Aaron Swartz and no matter what the reason why he tragically did what he did, the plain hard fact is that Aaron himself ended his own life. While there most certainly may have been mitigating circumstances involved, it still doesn't negate the fact he and he alone made the final decision.
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FFH
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reply to Just Bob

said by Just Bob:

He was facing 35 years for a TOS violation.

No he wasn't. He had a deal on the table for 6 months. All the press reports about long prison sentences were overblown.
»betabeat.com/2013/01/tom-dolan-d···twitter/
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PX Eliezer7
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Aaron Swartz Case 'Snowballed Out Of MIT's Hands,' Source Says

....Privately, several MIT officials expressed concerns that prosecutors were "overreaching" by charging Swartz with federal crimes that carried a sentence of up to 35 years in prison, according to a MIT employee familiar with the investigation.

But by then, it was too late. "By the time this thing snowballed out of MIT's hands, it was gone," said the employee, who asked not to be named because he still works at the university. "When the federal government chooses to prosecute, you dont get to say no."

....MIT employees also captured network traffic from Swartz's laptop and turned that data over to the Secret Service without requiring a warrant or subpoena. MIT disclosed that data to law enforcement with permission from the university's general counsels office, Swartz's attorney wrote in an October court filing.

....Some say the university could have handled Swartz's case internally. "The lesson learned is MIT needs a clear policy on when to talk to outside law enforcement because the case became a fiasco," the MIT source said. "Once federal prosecutors were on the case, there was no going back."

»www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1···627.html

Just Bob
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1 edit
reply to FFH

Has it come to your attention that Aaron Swartz isn't the first young man this prosecutor has driven to suicide? Has it come to you attention that Aaron burned through the money from the reddit sale defending himself and was financially ruined?

As to your description of the plea bargain, you fail to mention that he would have been required to plead guilty to 13 felonies. How would you know the total content of the plea offer? Wasn't there something about a $1,000,000 fine and restitution? How would 13 felony convictions affect his life?

The US Attorney's office has refused to comment "out of respect for the family." Isn't it strange that you're using the same words used by the husband of the same US Attorney, who apparently doesn't share his wife's "respect for the family?"
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"...an imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." Plutarch
Judging other people is easy. Understanding them can break your heart.

Expand your moderator at work

Just Bob
Premium
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Spring Hill, FL
reply to FFH

Re: Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz found dead.

said by FFH:

said by Just Bob:

He was facing 35 years for a TOS violation.

No he wasn't. He had a deal on the table for 6 months. All the press reports about long prison sentences were overblown.
»betabeat.com/2013/01/tom-dolan-d···twitter/

Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren is introducing an amendment to CFAA to prevent this from happening again. She's calling it Aaron's Law.

»www.reddit.com/r/technology/comm···/c7xmd94
As we mourn Aaron Swartz’s tragic death, many of us are deeply troubled as we learn more about the government’s actions against him. His family’s statement about this speaks volumes about the inappropriate efforts undertaken by the U.S. government. There’s no way to reverse the tragedy of Aaron’s death, but we can work to prevent a repeat of the abuses of power he experienced.

We should prevent what happened to Aaron from happening to other Internet users. The government was able to bring such disproportionate charges against Aaron because of the broad scope of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) and the wire fraud statute. It looks like the government used the vague wording of those laws to claim that violating an online service’s user agreement or terms of service is a violation of the CFAA and the wire fraud statute.

Using the law in this way could criminalize many everyday activities and allow for outlandishly severe penalties.
More at the link.
--
"...an imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." Plutarch
Judging other people is easy. Understanding them can break your heart.

Just Bob
Premium
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Spring Hill, FL

The amendment is short and simply. You can find the rough draft here:
»www.lofgren.house.gov/images/sto···1513.pdf



MsTerra
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reply to PX Eliezer7

said by PX Eliezer7:

Aaron Swartz Case 'Snowballed Out Of MIT's Hands,' Source Says

....Privately, several MIT officials expressed concerns that prosecutors were "overreaching" by charging Swartz with federal crimes that carried a sentence of up to 35 years in prison, according to a MIT employee familiar with the investigation.

But by then, it was too late. "By the time this thing snowballed out of MIT's hands, it was gone," said the employee, who asked not to be named because he still works at the university. "When the federal government chooses to prosecute, you dont get to say no."

....MIT employees also captured network traffic from Swartz's laptop and turned that data over to the Secret Service without requiring a warrant or subpoena. MIT disclosed that data to law enforcement with permission from the university's general counsels office, Swartz's attorney wrote in an October court filing.

....Some say the university could have handled Swartz's case internally. "The lesson learned is MIT needs a clear policy on when to talk to outside law enforcement because the case became a fiasco," the MIT source said. "Once federal prosecutors were on the case, there was no going back."

»www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1···627.html

I wonder how MIT was supposed to have handled the case internally when Swartz wasn't officially affiliated with MIT.

Also, this

At the time of his alleged offenses, Swartz was a fellow at Harvard University, not a student at MIT, but his lawyers argued that MIT's Internet policy allowed unfettered use of its network. Unlike other universities, MIT did not require a password or any affiliation with the school to access servers and digital libraries, Swartz's lawyers said in court filings.

is bullshit. Like other universities, MIT has publicly-accessible content available, and other content that requires authorization. At the time this happened, access to JSTOR required authentication via valid MIT certificates.
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