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Bob4
Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

Bob4 to scross

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to scross

Re: Brand names

said by scross:

they [Wal-Mart] are notorious for continually going back to their suppliers and telling them to squeeze out more costs, which almost always means lowering quality.

That's what I was trying to point out to Steve.
Timmn
join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL

Timmn to nunya

Member

to nunya
Many of the brands you mentioned are now owned by a Chinese company, Techtronic Industries Co. Ltd.

Follow the link below to see the brands that they own:

»www.ttigroup.com/en/our_brands

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

Steve to Bob4

to Bob4
said by Bob4:

said by scross:

they [Wal-Mart] are notorious for continually going back to their suppliers and telling them to squeeze out more costs, which almost always means lowering quality.

That's what I was trying to point out to Steve.

I'm fully aware of how Wal-Mart operates, but in a commodity market (which Wal-Mart serves), reductions in costs virtually always results in lower prices to the end consumer: I'm not sure that any sober assessment of the facts can come to any other conclusion. Rollback, anyone?

Wal-Mart can only do this because they proxy the voting-with-their-wallet power that their customers have given them, and their enormous success is testament to their ability to meet the low-prices demanded by their customers.

Now if somebody wants to call this a "race to the bottom", they'll be on far firmer footing, but lots of people are making decisions with their own money to go that direction, which means that our view - preferring quality - is a clear (perhaps overwhelming) minority.

Steve

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
Nunya: I hear ya.
I order jeans from denimexpress. Two years ago I got a pair of Carhartt canvas work jeans. Great jeans but $20 more than Wrangler, Dickies and Key. So I tried Key and their work jeans (5 pocket with little pocket that can hold cell phone not wood ruler). A heavier denim compared to Wrangler and Dickies. and $18.
Last month I ordered another Carhartt "canvas" in diff color. It was thinner grade and tighter than the same #, same size pair I had two years ago. Quality down hill.
As for Black And Decker, they are junk now (Stanley took them over in 2010), but also own DeWalt (combined now with Porter Cable). Dewalt seems to make decent tools, but they also evolve. I find their batteries are more than their tools, so when the batteries die, cheaper to get new tool with batteries.

Talking about something very good but pricey...look up Kitchen Aid Pro Line. They make a toaster now (looks VERY deco) that is $300! (2 slice). I saw one and had toast from it. I want one but not for $300!

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

Milwaukee is a heart breaker. I have many Milwaukee drills from the olden days. They still hum along fine. They were very expensive, but I use them for commercial use, so it was worth the money.
I bought a cordless Milwaukee set a few years ago, and it has been nothing but problems. At least three trips to the repair shop. I FINALLY got the Milwaukee rep to switch out the drill with a new one.
Milwaukee is now owned by Techtronic (Ryobi), thus the dramatic drop in quality.

I like Bosch, but it appears as thought they are taking the same path as Milwaukee. Everything is going to China. I have yet to see a quality power tool from China.

I just bought one of Bosch's higher end 3/8" drills, made in Switzerland. Hilti is still made in Lichtenstein as far as I know.
Liberty
Premium Member
join:2005-06-12
Arizona

Liberty to cableties

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to cableties
said by cableties:

Nunya: I hear ya.
I order jeans from denimexpress. Two years ago I got a pair of Carhartt canvas work jeans. Great jeans but $20 more than Wrangler, Dickies and Key. So I tried Key and their work jeans (5 pocket with little pocket that can hold cell phone not wood ruler). A heavier denim compared to Wrangler and Dickies. and $18.
Last month I ordered another Carhartt "canvas" in diff color. It was thinner grade and tighter than the same #, same size pair I had two years ago. Quality down hill.

I have been buying made in USA jeans from Pointer for couple years now
They aren't quite as stylin' as the Wranglers I have been buying for decades but have all American fabric and labor
Cost half again what Wrangers cost

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

My Redwing boots crapped out last month (holes in the uppers, worn out soles). They were beyond repair, so I went to the boot store looking for non-Chinese replacements. Nothing that was waterproof. I couldn't believe Redwing had gone down the China path.
I finally ordered from »www.afboots.com/ (I was leery about ordering boots online). They wound up being 1/2 the price of Chinese Redwings.
dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ

dogo88 to Liberty

Member

to Liberty
Bought Pointer jeans but but like you the style wasn't there. I found allamericaclothing.com and they have jeans that are all american made from the cotton to the zipper. Style is similar to Wrangler and Lee. Price is compatible to Levis.
Liberty
Premium Member
join:2005-06-12
Arizona

Liberty to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

My Redwing boots crapped out last month (holes in the uppers, worn out soles). They were beyond repair, so I went to the boot store looking for non-Chinese replacements. Nothing that was waterproof. I couldn't believe Redwing had gone down the China path.
I finally ordered from »www.afboots.com/ (I was leery about ordering boots online). They wound up being 1/2 the price of Chinese Redwings.

I have bought Redwings for years & years too and have struggled with their line gradually converting to Chinese
No US models that interest me any longer there

My criteria for purchases now days, first filter is:
Made in USA or not China
Second is trade imbalance with manufacturer's country

The boots I have now are made in Romania (I think) Asolo
Expensive as Redwings and comfortable as hell - time will tell on build quality
Could not find decent US boots to-save-my-sole

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939 to Timmn

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to Timmn
Close, but it is based in Hong Kong and run by a German who is the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer who also sits on the board of Novatel Wireless Inc.
Timmn
join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL

Timmn

Member

I don't know what difference being based in Hong Kong makes, the British handed it over to China years ago.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to CylonRed

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to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

GE never had good stuff imho.

we had a GE fridge that ran fine for 35+ years or something, and its interior build quality was far superior to anything today. Its compressor even survived my parents running it in the UK while in the USAF. meaning it ran on a transformer at 50hz instead of 60hz as it was designed to.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

1 recommendation

sk1939 to Timmn

Premium Member

to Timmn
said by Timmn:

I don't know what difference being based in Hong Kong makes, the British handed it over to China years ago.

You mean other than minor things like an independent government, currency, and market economy?

chip89
Premium Member
join:2012-07-05
Columbia Station, OH

chip89 to Hellrazor

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to Hellrazor
To Late I bought A craftsman last year!
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

Hellrazor

Member

said by chip89:

To Late I bought A craftsman last year!

My condolences...

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939

Premium Member

I haven't bought a Craftsman power tool since the late 80's...and those still run fine.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to nunya

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to nunya
Profit margins. Companies must keep propping up stock with continuous gains, all the while consumers, squeezed on every side by soaring inflation and wage stagnation shop purely by price.

So the race to the lowest quality junk only accelerates. The sad thing is now is you can spend real money on a product and still get cheap junk quality that will fail and die. Look at modern construction vs a few decades ago. Ever watch how quickly a modern house burns down?
KrK

KrK to Steve

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to Steve
Wal-Mart perpetuates the myth of low prices.

They do this by having very visible and well placed loss leaders....

while they make it up selling cheap junk at very high margins elsewhere. Walmart is always believed to be the cheapest, but it isn't.

It's not just Walmart, however. The cheap junk at full price syndrome is everywhere. Farm Supply, Home Depot, ACE hardware, you name it. Junk @ full price.
telco_mtl
join:2012-01-06

1 recommendation

telco_mtl

Member

said by KrK:

Wal-Mart perpetuates the myth of low prices.

They do this by having very visible and well placed loss leaders....

while they make it up selling cheap junk at very high margins elsewhere. Walmart is always believed to be the cheapest, but it isn't.

It's not just Walmart, however. The cheap junk at full price syndrome is everywhere. Farm Supply, Home Depot, ACE hardware, you name it. Junk @ full price.

and its funny how the little things can be priced differently, up here we have a Canadian chain that operates under a few different banners, RONA. on things like breaker panels they are cheaper than home depot, but oddly home depot is cheaper on the breakers to fill the panel. its like this with many items. Sadly these big box stores have killed the traditional hardware store, when i was a kid we had 3 small hardware stores and 4 local owned lumber yards. today those 3 hardware stores are gone and 2 of the lumber yards gone, the other two have been bought up by chains. They may be cheaper on hardware and the like, but the mom n pop hardware store came with know how behind the product. Sometimes you would run into an odd problem around the house, if you go to a big box for a solution they will tell you cant be done, the mom n pop, he will head down to the mythical hardware store basement, you will hear crashing and banging with swearing and the guy appears with a couple of parts that fix your problem. Sadly these places are now few and far between. When i find one i frequent them as much as i can.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

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tschmidt

MVM

said by telco_mtl:

Sadly these places are now few and far between. When i find one i frequent them as much as i can.

We are lucky in that respect in that local hardware, lumber, plumbing and electrical businesses have not been displaced by the big box retailers and seem to be holding their own.

Our local hardware store comes reasonably close to big box prices and as you mentioned the people who work there have been there for years and know who you are and are able to offer advice.

I try to patronize local businesses but I have to admit there is an attraction to big box home centers in being able to walk the isles and see merchandise to get ideas. That is not something you can do in a smaller business where the counter attendant gets the merchandise for you.

While I generally agree with the axiom - you get what you pay for - it is hard to tell the true difference between products any more. There has been so much consolidation that now most brands are now owned by amorphous corporate conglomerates. Whatever unique traits they used to bring to the market have been lost.

/tom

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

said by tschmidt:

said by telco_mtl:

Sadly these places are now few and far between. When i find one i frequent them as much as i can.

...Our local hardware store comes reasonably close to big box prices and as you mentioned the people who work there have been there for years and know who you are and are able to offer advice.

I try to patronize local businesses but I have to admit there is an attraction to big box home centers in being able to walk the isles and see merchandise to get ideas. That is not something you can do in a smaller business where the counter attendant gets the merchandise for you...

+1
Lumberyard a ways out has far better lumber than the big boxes (Howes Despot). Matter of fact, big boxes have more kerfed, twists, and distorted/wet timber than most understand, yet buy because it is cheaper per foot than lumberyard.

I patronize the smaller hardware stores because they make up for higher price in knowledge, courtesy and wide assortment that big boxes don't have.

Never seen a sale at Howes Despot, Never. "Just our low prices..."
(ok, rant over. Off to get some HVAC filters... cheaper at HD than amazon!)

Killa200
Premium Member
join:2005-12-02
TN

1 recommendation

Killa200 to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
I've got to the point to where I ignore the brand name for the most part (There is a few out there that just scream pass, and on those I do). What I do is go to the local pawn shops, and look for contractor's tools that they have pawned off for whatever reason. If they look like hell and have been put through hell, and are still running by the time they hit the shelves at the shop, then they'll probably do me fine for a while. Gets me a great price too,

So far this is working out great.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
I tried customer support for a Black & Decker product about a year ago. The support was awful.

I've gotten outstanding support from Samsung, Jacuzzi, Vizio and Dyson. Though they aren't in the tool business.