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Etobicoke, ON
reply to Cdnexpert

Re: Shaw no support new Super HD from Netflix, boo!

said by Cdnexpert :

Actually most big isps are not all over this. In fact, some isp's actually trialed the cache out and removed it because it does not benefit them. It is not in the best interests of companies like shaw, rogers, comcast, charter, time warner, cogeco. Companies like telus, bell, cablevision who may not have the best peering arrangements will see a benefit for having the cache and can bring down costs on transit. It is well known that according to netflix canadian stats, that shaw and rogers are top providers when it comes to average bitrate served to netflix customers. Telus not so much, so it makes sense to better that experience. In addition, telus doesn't have a strong competing product as their vod store isn't that great. Big isps actually have negotiating power with the likes of Level 3, akamai, limelight than a smaller ISP which translates to costs being lower.

My comment was about peering, not the appliance. Whether Shaw has a competing product is mainly irrelevant, it's not Netflix. I've used VOD offerings from most of these providers and it is mostly awful at best. Big ISPs negotiating power with those commercial CDN players is irrelevant when Netflix migrates all of the traffic on to their own CDN. Numerous other big web properties have done the same thing. It is only logical to do so once they've become as big as they are.

said by Cdnexpert :

I must say its interesting with netflix's approach. Most isps have their own cdn and this is netflix's attempt to save money from the likes of L3, akamai and limelight that is killing them in essentially hosting costs using their caches. If an isp already has caches, why doesn't netflix work with the isp. Seems that netflix doesn't want to share any money with isp's, and now l3, limelight and akamai. And eveyone recognizes that the cache is not just for superhd and 3d content. Once they have their foot in the door, all netflix traffic will be served from cache, which saves them money.

Of course the cache isn't just about Super HD / 3D. It's been around for quite awhile already. That's pretty obvious. Level 3 and Limelight are not killing Netflix at all. It is about reducing the cost to deliver the bits to their customers. Any sane business would understand once they get to a certain size it makes sense to invest the time and money to build their own infrastructure. The ISPs CDNs are for their own content. Trying to use them makes absolutely no sense. It's the Netflix CDN, not a mishmash of other CDNs which they have no control over. Of course it saves them money. That's the whole point.

said by Cdnexpert :

In all applications, it is known that isp's don't gain any monetary value from netflix at all. If netflix is bringing down costs, why don't they utilize an ISP's already built cdn and share some of that dough they are saving?

They're building their own CDN. That doesn't make any sense. The ISPs own CDNs are for their own content. Level 3, Akamai, Limelight and other CDNs do not use the ISPs own CDNs. Why would Netflix be any different?

said by Cdnexpert :

I can see this going down as follows:

1) Bigger ISP's will flip netflix the bird and band together to build a netflix like service. Would be way cheaper to implement since cdn federation allows ISP's to join their CDN's together. Plus they already have great relationships with studios to negotiate content.

2) Netflix and ISP's negotiaite something that brings monetary value

#1 is pretty dumb and I doubt anyone really wants this. You can have all the infrastructure in the world but tithout very strong branding like Netflix it is doomed.

#2 is pretty debatable.

said by Cdnexpert :

This is just a prediction, but i am betting that eventually the super HD service will be turned on regardless of joining open connect. If you can get 25-50 mbps speeds on your internet package, why can't you stream a measly 5/7 mbps? Why are customers not raging at netflix knowing that most isps will not cooperate with them so make it work with how things are now. This is all a ploy to get their foot deeper into isp's networks and i bet they will eventually turn it on every where, especially if bigger isp's don't join open connect. Netflix can only hope that isp's join a statement that was made by the ceo.

It's not any more of a ploy than peering with Akamai, Limelight or other major CDNs. Netflix is not forcing the appliances on ISPs. It can benefit them but it is not a requirement for this service. The appliance tends to be used in situations where the ISP cannot peer with Netflix in markets without peering like Canadian providers that do not have their own networks extending down to American peering points or larger ISPs that want to put the appliances deeper into their networks.

said by Cdnexpert :

Lastly, for them to make a statement that its free for the isp is BS. Rack, cooling, power, optics all cost money. Losing a small % of customers may still be cheaper for isp's than to let netflix closer to the edge and enhance their service. Something to think about.

No one has said the whole initiative is free. The appliance is free and that's it. This is no different for Google caches or Akamai caches.
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