SukunaiPremium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
·TekSavvy DSL
| Logs, is there a reason for them at all? Just curious, all this talk of retaining logs, and the durations and all of that.
What precisely is the point of retaining them at all?
What is their normal purpose?
Understand I know a single bit of knowledge concerning logs, and I would think it would be a simple matter for an ISP to respond to demands for them with 'oh we don't retain them, sorry, was there anything else?'.
What is the point of having them? What routine normal function that is not annoying to us, is performed by having logs?
Why have 12 months, if some get by with having just 3 months?
Is 3 days enough? is there some sort of magical minimum? |
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Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
| It is my understanding that it is a necessity in case of billing discrepancies, etc. Though, I do question the detail and length, I would think a simple daily tracking of bandwidth used would suffice for this purpose rather than actual detailed logging, but I really don't know that much about it. |
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 MacGyverDon't Waste Your EnergyPremium,ExMod 2003-05
join:2001-10-14
Canada
kudos:1
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Sukunai
The reason is to identify those truly breaking the law - child pornographers, lurers, scammers, spammers, death threats. Those court orders are complied with by the ISPs without publicity or fanfare, since those investigations are conducted in secret until you hear about 200 pedophiles arrested on the news.
Example: »www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/11/19···119.html |
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| said by MacGyver:The reason is to identify those truly breaking the law - child pornographers, lurers, scammers, spammers, death threats. Those court orders are complied with by the ISPs without publicity or fanfare, since those investigations are conducted in secret until you hear about 200 pedophiles arrested on the news.
Example: »www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/11/19···119.html
If I have only 30 days to dispute a bill, why keep records longer than say 45 days - which ought to be sufficient time for me to send my protest to my supplier on the 30th day and still allow plenty of time for my supplier to copy the portion of the master log they need to a 'disputes' directory - and then simply work with the data in the disputes section. The master log has records dropped on a rolling 45 day basis, and the disputes directory has my records erased once the dispute is resolve.
As to your examples above, maybe we should keep records of everything everyone does since birth - just in case we want to discover pre-crime as well. Oh wait, the NSA captures all traffic entering into the US - which includes all mail to/from sympatico.ca and rogers.com e-mail addresses. So maybe 50% of the Canadian populace is already monitored.
There's nothing stopping law enforcement from getting info on an *on-going* go-forward basis as long as they have a court order. Ditto for getting the 45 or 30 or whatever number of prior days of history an ISP has. |
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| reply to Sukunai
Same reason as having a previous, HARDCOPY papertrail for anything in financials, to legal, to health, to whathaveyou...
It is a (near irrefuteable) RECORD that SOMEthing happened at such and such a date / time that someone can backtrack
and pull up to crossreference / dispute.
My 00000010bits.
Regards |
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SukunaiPremium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1 Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Sukunai
"child pornographers, lurers, scammers, spammers, death threats"
Hmm well considering how society treats those persons when identified, I am not sure why the concern about identifying them in the first place.
I personally think the term 'punishment' shouldn't even enter the discussion.
So far it doesn't look like there is a massive deal of reason to plague ISPs specifically. Because to be quite blunt there are better ways to deal with those individuals. Better ways to identify those individuals.
I for instance have known sons of law enforcement persons. They have made it clear in the past, their dads were well aware of all the people in the area who were known criminals of various flavours.
I think raids into the homes of say a child pornographer would be easier and more prone to success, than beating up ISPs to prove the person had access to illegal content.
To suggest they 'need' to burden the ISPs is to just demonstrate a dismal level of knowledge. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:If I have only 30 days to dispute a bill, why keep records longer than say 45 days.
30 days to dispute a bill. 31 day billing period. Bills not always processed on the first day of the new billing period. You could be calling to dispute something that would have been logged over 60 days ago, and still be within the acceptable window for doing so. |
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1 edit | reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:
If I have only 30 days to dispute a bill, why keep records longer than say 45 days - which ought to be sufficient time for me to send my protest to my supplier on the 30th day and still allow plenty of time for my supplier to copy the portion of the master log they need to a 'disputes' directory - and then simply work with the data in the disputes section. The master log has records dropped on a rolling 45 day basis, and the disputes directory has my records erased once the dispute is resolve.
From Bell's TOS:
"19.1 In the case of a recurring charge that should not have been billed or that
was overbilled, a customer must be credited with the excess back to the date of
the error, subject to applicable limitation periods provided by law. However, a
customer who does not dispute the charge within one year of the date of an
itemized statement which shows that charge correctly, loses the right to have
the excess credited for the period prior to that statement.
19.2 Non-recurring charges that should not have been billed or that were
overbilled must be credited, provided that the customer disputes them within
150 days of the date of the bill."
So, longer than 45 days...
Edit: changed to general tariff TOS
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