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JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23

Proud of TSI for it's actions in Jan 14th hearing

You stood up for our privacy.

Thank you Marc.

rdcanuck

join:2010-09-22
Nepean, ON
+1


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to JMJimmy
+1 Ditto!
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

MFido

join:2012-10-19
kudos:2
reply to JMJimmy
as I am a fanboy .... +10

d_source

join:2011-01-18
reply to JMJimmy
Where can we find out what happened today? Is it still going on?

TheodicalCat

join:2012-12-26
This is the link for the tweets about the court hearing:

»[Twitter] Ressy | PAnderson| MGeist | SVILaw

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to d_source
said by d_source:

Where can we find out what happened today? Is it still going on?

»[Twitter] Ressy | PAnderson| MGeist | SVILaw

Adjourned for today

Jaxom

join:2012-03-10
East York, ON
reply to JMJimmy
That is a lot of money Teksavvy has spent fighting these copyright trolls. Much thanks.

I am not one of the defendants but I still appreciate the fact that Teksavvy didn't just hand over our personal information.

d_source

join:2011-01-18
reply to JMJimmy

kahhnn

join:2003-07-16
North York, ON
reply to JMJimmy
Way to go! You sure had a lot of folks worried TS but at the end of the day you certainly did go to bat to protect customers privacy.

Big thanks to folks like Jason K, TX and others for your decent posts on this forum, I found most of it very informative.

Cheers!

EHTL

join:2002-10-31
Canada
reply to JMJimmy
Thank you TSI.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to JMJimmy
WOOT TSI! A nice measured response to Voltage. Just enough pressure.

I do hope the court will allow you to recover costs in this fiasco tho.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
They still did not oppose the motion all they did is buy more time for someone else to do what they should be doing... IE oppose the motion.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
reply to JMJimmy
Well TSI counsel did demand assurances of privacy from Voltage.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
True, they earned some points with me today but the lack of being willing to oppose the motion, Lost them alot of points p:)
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to morisato
said by morisato:

They still did not oppose the motion all they did is buy more time for someone else to do what they should be doing... IE oppose the motion.

As Ak said, they did request assurances of privacy. They also backed up CIPPIC, took issue with the affidavit from Barry Logan, but more than that they gave the court a major point to consider: Only ~50% of the IPs could be associated. That has huge legal significance because this is a civil case and the odds are important. If TSI was able to associate 75% or more the odds are heavily in Voltages favour - at 50% it makes it that much harder for Voltage to claim their information is accurate. Combine 50% with all the arguments against IP info that means they've got a serious uphill battle that they're probably not prepared to fight.


drjp81

join:2006-01-09
canada
reply to JMJimmy
The techdirt article seems to say as much as the battle is not going to be easy for Voltage and the judge seems to actually concerned with the issues. That is the most important.

--
Cheers!

MoreFaxes

join:2002-09-27
United
reply to JMJimmy
Why celebrating? I don't see it.

1. The lawsuit is not terminated. It is simply postponed.
2. TSI's log is inaccurate and incomplete, by their own admission. Any TSI customer can potentially be wrongfully accused. Weren't there 40 mistaken ID from the last count? So anyone is at risk, including the law abiding netizens that never ever used a P2P.

So why are we still celebrating again?


drjp81

join:2006-01-09
canada
said by MoreFaxes:

Why celebrating? I don't see it.

1. The lawsuit is not terminated. It is simply postponed.
2. TSI's log is inaccurate and incomplete, by their own admission. Any TSI customer can potentially be wrongfully accused. Weren't there 40 mistaken ID from the last count? So anyone is at risk, including the law abiding netizens that never ever used a P2P.

So why are we still celebrating again?

Because we made progress towards real justice. Which is what anyone wants.
--
Cheers!


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to morisato
said by morisato:

They still did not oppose the motion all they did is buy more time for someone else to do what they should be doing... IE oppose the motion.

This....The only good news that I saw coming out of court today is that at least TSI is working with CIPPIC and advocating for them to intervene in the case.

Come to think of it, isn't that a little better actually? While I still wish TSI simply opposed the motion which would have stopped it dead in the water, at least an expert and pro-internet group such as CIPPIC is now involved in the case and in TSI's corner...
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting


Dr Facts

@gc.ca
reply to MoreFaxes
said by MoreFaxes:

So why are we still celebrating again?

Because Voltage, once again, has not gotten what they wanted. Their game plan was simple, slip into court, get the names and numbers, send off their letters of extortion, sort through the responses and collect the windfall.

Quick, clean and cheap.

Now they've opened up a can of worms, they have at least one more court date that has gotten a lot more complex.

Complex = more time and money spent = less easy troll profit.

They're not beaten but they've just gotten a shot to the nose and I promise you it's stinging them.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

1 recommendation

It would be hilarious if their request is eventually denied, and they are forced to pay up the costs TSI incurred in looking up these IP's and notifying customers, not to mention loss of business due to those customers potentially cancelling, and potential new customers not deciding to sign up.
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to MoreFaxes
said by MoreFaxes:

Why celebrating? I don't see it.

1. The lawsuit is not terminated. It is simply postponed.
2. TSI's log is inaccurate and incomplete, by their own admission. Any TSI customer can potentially be wrongfully accused. Weren't there 40 mistaken ID from the last count? So anyone is at risk, including the law abiding netizens that never ever used a P2P.

So why are we still celebrating again?

1) TSI openly supported CIPPIC to aid them in gaining intervener status

2) TSI didn't roll over. While they didn't officially oppose the motion, they opened up several legal avenues for CIPPIC, requested protections for our information in the event of disclosure, openly opposed Voltage's "evidence", and made it clear that it's going to be damn expensive for trolls to get subscriber info (while costs pre-disclosure was denied the door isn't shut on costs - if they are grated costs... $80-95/claim is a nice value to set on future attempts)

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to JMJimmy
said by JMJimmy:

they gave the court a major point to consider: Only ~50% of the IPs could be associated. That has huge legal significance because this is a civil case and the odds are important.

The reason(s) why 50% of IPs could not be resolved to an account are important too and may not necessarily have any negative impact on the accuracy of the other 50% that were resolved.

If the main reason IPs were not resolved is due to lost/corrupted logs or logs lost to normal file rotation, they have little to no bearing on accuracy. This is what people demanding shorter log retention are banking on and if TSI fails to get their costs paid by Voltage, they might decide to do just that so next time Voltage or other troll comes with 2+ months worth of IP logs starting weeks ago, TSI will be able to tell 'em they cannot do anything with logs older than 21 days and chuck the whole thing out instead of wasting $200k again.

kabes

join:2010-05-14
Kitchener, ON
reply to JMJimmy
I'm glad the Judge brought up the problems with tying an IP address to a person, and the logistical issues of having 1000 defendants.

Suck it, Voltage.

Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
reply to MoreFaxes
said by MoreFaxes:

So why are we still celebrating again?

The court will be reserving possibly over a day to address this case, Voltage does not want deep scrutiny on the Copyright Troll issue and the fact they have been pretty much thrown out of the UK/US legal systems which is what brought them here in the first place.

They were hoping for a quick payout and this just blew up in their face

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

It would be hilarious if their request is eventually denied, and they are forced to pay up the costs TSI incurred in looking up these IP's and notifying customers, not to mention loss of business due to those customers potentially cancelling, and potential new customers not deciding to sign up.

Right on.

OT: Nice call on the new avatar. Hooked up my season tickets the day of the Marlins trade. Awwwwwwww yeah.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Dunlop
said by Dunlop:

said by MoreFaxes:

So why are we still celebrating again?

The court will be reserving possibly over a day to address this case, Voltage does not want deep scrutiny on the Copyright Troll issue and the fact they have been pretty much thrown out of the UK/US legal systems which is what brought them here in the first place.

They were hoping for a quick payout and this just blew up in their face

Whats happening now, is that the Judge decided not to write the decision TOGETHER based on his 4 points made in court.

He stated that since all 3 parties had been experiencing communication issues, the 3 parties can draft the decision themselves, and submit it to the court for approval.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Sanek

join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON
reply to JMJimmy
As expected, the court knew nothing of "IP Number" (lol). Thats ok, as long as there are experts that will speak on the subject matter and not just go with whatever voltage says.

I would say well handled, Teksavvy. You did as much as I think we could have expected from you and did not just sit back quietly - for that I thank you!

I'm not actually on the list of people covered by the voltage motion, but I feel the concern here is far beyond that point. Everyone is affected by the decisions made in that courtroom and I'm glad the judge realizes that it will not be in a 1-hour meeting.

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

said by JMJimmy:

they gave the court a major point to consider: Only ~50% of the IPs could be associated. That has huge legal significance because this is a civil case and the odds are important.

The reason(s) why 50% of IPs could not be resolved to an account are important too and may not necessarily have any negative impact on the accuracy of the other 50% that were resolved.

If the main reason IPs were not resolved is due to lost/corrupted logs or logs lost to normal file rotation, they have little to no bearing on accuracy. This is what people demanding shorter log retention are banking on and if TSI fails to get their costs paid by Voltage, they might decide to do just that so next time Voltage or other troll comes with 2+ months worth of IP logs starting weeks ago, TSI will be able to tell 'em they cannot do anything with logs older than 21 days and chuck the whole thing out instead of wasting $200k again.

Do we know this is the case for sure?

Even so, it does go to accuracy. If log files are being overwritten prematurely with new data due to rotation or files are being corrupted that points to issues in the storage/software/processes/etc which calls the entire data set into question.