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rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to jagerman

Re: Start Communications - New Packages

It's likely that 'option c' will be the approach we take, it's easy to explain still and gives people the ability to accomplish the unlimited off peak that they are looking for.

jagerman

join:2011-01-10
Kingston, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

The costs of on-peak usage are much much higher than you are allowing for. If we are going to win this point, we have to be realistic

My main point was to propose a menu for different dimensions of use, not to suggest prices. I will point out, however, that I was careful to make all of those above prices agree with the new Cogeco plans.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to jagerman
jagerman, I totally agree with you about the general principal, but...
said by jagerman:

b) Choose your monthly traffic:
50GB [included]
100GB [+$4]
150GB [+$7]
250GB [+$10]
350GB [+$15]
Unlimited [+$14, only available with 4/.6 plan]

The costs of on-peak usage are much much higher than you are allowing for. If we are going to win this point, we have to be realistic
--
electronicsguru.ca

jagerman

join:2011-01-10
Kingston, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

The marketing/explanation to the average consumer is pretty confusing, ie 100GB on-peak, unlimited off-peak vs 250GB is much easier to visualize the later. We're hoping that the final capacity rates make it moot and we can have an unlimited package and make it simple, if that doesn't come along soon then we'll likely figure out some sort of off-peak option you can add to your account.

I get the confusion, but couldn't you hide that under a sort of "advanced" plan for people who aren't confused by it? I rather like the ability of more finely tuned plans. You could, for instance, offer something like this for Cogeco-land (numbers vaguely based off the new pricing scheme in the original post):

1) Choose a standard package:
4/.6 w/ 100GB $29.95
20/1.5 w/ 150GB $39.95
30/2 w/ 250GB $49.95
55/2 w/ 350GB $79.95

2) Or build a custom package:
a) Choose your speed:
4/.6 [starting at $25.95]
20/1.5 [starting at $32.95]
30/2 [starting at $39.95]
55/2 [starting at $54.95]

b) Choose your monthly traffic:
50GB [included]
100GB [+$4]
150GB [+$7]
250GB [+$10]
350GB [+$15]
Unlimited [+$14, only available with 4/.6 plan]

c) Choose your extras:
Unlimited off-peak use (12pm-8am) [+$10]
...

I just sort of guessed at numbers to make the "custom" plans add up to the standard plans; obviously you'd need to figure out the appropriate price points.

Just a thought.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to tristen1230
said by tristen1230:

So does off peak hours don'ct count like Teksavvy?

For cable internet, off peak hours do count at Teksavvy. See this for more information on how it actually works there:
»Re: [Cable] Use all you want time.

Actually, you should probably read that entire thread:
»[Cable] Use all you want time..
--
electronicsguru.ca


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to rocca
Thanks rocca! I was hesitant, because I know you've covered it before. But, I feel strongly about it.

From my perspective it isn't that hard to explain to customers. Everybody understands rushhour. As with the politically difficult on-peak off-peak electrical billing, everybody should be confronted with the true cost of what they are doing.

Try explaining that you really do want a D3 modem for Standard because you'll get a speed upgrade in two weeks if you ask for it, but not on Teksavvy for two more months after that, and only if the CRTC decides Teksavvy (or Acanac who is really Distributel) should get it. but all of that only until November because then everybody is on the same system regardless. Which I do for every most customers looking at Standard/Express, which is pretty much everybody. ARGH!!!
--
electronicsguru.ca


tristen1230

join:2010-12-26
Belleville, ON
reply to rocca
So does off peak hours don'ct count like Teksavvy?


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

I can't help going back to the question of off-peak usage. The cost of off peak usage is basically zero, and reflecting that back to customers would be huge.

Doing so at the same price would mean reducing the on-peak total though because there is an implication that some of the usage will be used off-peak. The marketing/explanation to the average consumer is pretty confusing, ie 100GB on-peak, unlimited off-peak vs 250GB is much easier to visualize the later. We're hoping that the final capacity rates make it moot and we can have an unlimited package and make it simple, if that doesn't come along soon then we'll likely figure out some sort of off-peak option you can add to your account.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

I can't help going back to the question of off-peak usage. The cost of off peak usage is basically zero, and reflecting that back to customers would be huge.

Rocca has said a few times that is factored in already. If they were to do "free off-peak", the caps for the metered periods would be lower than the current caps.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

No, it's definitely not unlimited. We do track usage and people that are greatly abusing their quota get a call. Once the automated correlation piece is done (waiting on Rogers to finish a piece) then we'll be able to post it on the usage tracker much more easily. Most people have been respectful of their limits and we haven't had to make too many calls or throttle them down.

I can't help going back to the question of off-peak usage. The cost of off peak usage is basically zero, and reflecting that back to customers would be huge.

Of course Rogers tool would have to be compatible with that type of usage tracking too..
--
electronicsguru.ca


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to tristen1230
said by tristen1230:

Will there be anymore of these changes if I were to choose you. Also in the future would you guys offer unlimited. Is there any reason you do not become not aggregated.

We grandfathered all our existing customers, ie there were no forced changes on any of our customers. Unlimited will 100% depend on what the CRTC rules for capacity rates. As for becoming 'not aggregated', it's the other direction - ie the existing disaggregated TPIA providers will soon be coming to the aggregated platform (and subjected to the same rates we are) as mandated by the CRTC.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to TomTor3
said by TomTor3 :

That's not true. D2 can support up to 30Mbps upstream. I know that in Canada 2Mbps upstream speed sounds incredible, but those kind of speeds were common in Europe 5 years ago using D2 technology. Can you guys double-check it? I know Rogers has this kind of ridiculous requirements (like requiring D3 modems in order to increase monthly cap form 60GB to 80GB) but does Start.ca really have to do that too?

D2 modems can do more than 2mbit/s upload, certainly, but I don't think they can do 30mbit/s. I think the total capacity of an upload channel is around 30mbit, yes, but there is some other limiting factor that means real world home use modems can't. A moot point of course. D2 modems are certainly technically capable of 25/2, but probably not technically capable of 35/3, certainly not capable of 45/4.

All indications are that Rogers has decided not to allow it anyway. And this is different from previous Rogers decisions about D2 modems.. Right now TPIA companies can subscribe 32/1 on D2 modems if they want to, even though the guidance is that D3 should be required on all accounts over 15mbit/s speed.

My understanding is that Start has a portal into Rogers system, and Rogers simply automatically rejects orders when the parameters don't match.

There is still a chance that non-aggregated TPIAs might allow 25/2 on D2 modems, if they get access to the speed before being forced to aggregated later this year. A very slim chance though. And, if it happens, it won't last long. Rogers has announced that come April they will only accept D2 modems on 6mbit/s service.
--
electronicsguru.ca


tristen1230

join:2010-12-26
Belleville, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to rocca
Well I may do DSL. Just maybe but the 28 MbPS through Acanac and unlimited is a little tempting. Will there be anymore of these changes if I were to choose you. Also in the future would you guys offer unlimited. Is there any reason you do not become not aggregated.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to tristen1230
said by tristen1230:

Well I may just got with Acanac even with their bad reviews. Possibly teksavvy for unlimited... I was hoping for Cable 300gb from you guys but I am a lil bit dispointed about this.

We have options if you need 300GB or more, but certainly I encourage you to find the right provider for the service you need. We're the only provider up on the aggregated platform which means we're also the only ones that have to pay for capacity, and it's at rates that aren't sustainable. Once the review decision comes out from the CRTC, if it's favourable then I expect that we'll add more usage back to the new speed packages.


tristen1230

join:2010-12-26
Belleville, ON
reply to rocca
Well I may just got with Acanac even with their bad reviews. Possibly teksavvy for unlimited... I was hoping for Cable 300gb from you guys but I am a lil bit dispointed about this.


motoracer

join:2003-09-15
united state
reply to rocca
It's amazing that with new technology, the need for faster/more bandwidth increases, but the supply is decreased.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to coldmantis
said by coldmantis:

I'm guessing with all the request your getting to change speed profiles, I won't see the speed change tonight even though I phoned in this morning.

No definitely not, speed profile changes take at least 24-48 hours to complete and with the volume could be looking at a few days.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to TOPDAWG
The file was closed late summer, it's anyone's guess as to when it will be decided. Many people thought it would be at the ISP Summit in November, missing that date it was thought maybe we'd hear before the holidays, but at this point just waiting. The interim rates are almost a year old now.

coldmantis

join:2005-02-04
reply to rocca
I'm guessing with all the request your getting to change speed profiles, I won't see the speed change tonight even though I phoned in this morning.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to rocca
when does the wholesale pricing stuff come out or is it case closed for that issue? I don't follow this stuff like I used too.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to abitbent
Thank you very much, I really appreciate your support!


abitbent

join:2004-04-23
Brantford, ON
Reviews:
·magicjack.com
·Start Communicat..
reply to rocca
Thanks for being so engaged with your customers Rocca. I understand the game you have to play with Rogers and Bell is a tough one, and try to make a few bucks for Start as well.

Based on how Rogers and Bell are treating Canadians, I'd pay more and get less from Start then have to ever go back to those huge corporations.

The CRTC better get the wholesale pricing right, because there are over a half million Canadians (OpenMedia) waiting to scream if they don't.

I just really appreciate the honesty and engagement from Start so far.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to geokilla
yeah sucks paying rogers 87 for 10/2 is killing me makes me want to cry but nothing else I can get in my area. The min Start has a higher speed cable uncapped serve I'm switching.


coaxguy

join:2009-07-29
kudos:1
reply to rocca
Time to decide to switch or not now. Currently on Bells 25/10 plan with a student data package of 375GB for $60 a month. Data will be going down to 125GB in a month and price will be going up to $69.99

Decisions, decision.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

They may can track you like they said and call you but it may not be ready where they can force you to pay for overages.

While we aren't charging overages at this time due to the lack of the automation component (which is coming soon), it doesn't mean it's open for abuse in the mean-time. That's really my point, ie don't signup expecting unlimited because it won't happen. We have reports that point out the hot spots and we deal with incidents as needed. For people that want to treat it as unlimited, then we have an unlimited option at 6Mbps.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

yeah still think that is true. While I know that it may change soon or never it's not cool to sign up for a 200GB cap then use a TB in a month just cause you can. No way Start wants to state the date the tracking will be live.

They may can track you like they said and call you but it may not be ready where they can force you to pay for overages.

Lol I won't be like that, don't worry. It's just that I normally use around 100GB/month, but sometimes I download anime series and what not, and those series itself would push me up to 150GB or more. Never have I hit 200GB...

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to geokilla
said by geokilla:

Oh really? Because last I heard and read, there is still no usage tracking for cable IISP customers... When did this change? Or does this only apply to Start and not Teksavvy? The usage tracking that is.

This seems pretty obvious. With APOI implementation, all traffic goes through Rogers/Cogeco's systems now before handing off to the TPIA's link.. with that rogers and cogeco can now use their same tracking system they use for their own users for the TPIA's.

Tek's Roger's implementation can't do this yet as they're not on APOI yet, so it's basically not tracked and you're under an honour system to stay under your cap if you don't have the unlimited plan.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to geokilla
said by geokilla:

Oh really? Because last I heard and read, there is still no usage tracking for cable IISP customers... When did this change?

We've been tracking since end of November.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to geokilla
yeah still think that is true. While I know that it may change soon or never it's not cool to sign up for a 200GB cap then use a TB in a month just cause you can. No way Start wants to state the date the tracking will be live.

They may can track you like they said and call you but it may not be ready where they can force you to pay for overages.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

said by geokilla:

Question: Usage cannot be tracked by Rogers right? So technically, it is still unlimited usage. Or does APOI give Rogers the ability to track how much usage you're using?

No, it's definitely not unlimited. We do track usage and people that are greatly abusing their quota get a call. Once the automated correlation piece is done (waiting on Rogers to finish a piece) then we'll be able to post it on the usage tracker much more easily. Most people have been respectful of their limits and we haven't had to make too many calls or throttle them down.

Oh really? Because last I heard and read, there is still no usage tracking for cable IISP customers... When did this change? Or does this only apply to Start and not Teksavvy? The usage tracking that is.