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mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
kudos:13
reply to rocca

Re: Start Communications - New Packages

How about one more tier, or an option of some kind: $10 more, for a 450GB usage cap ?

CoreyMe

join:2007-11-03
London, ON
said by mlord:

How about one more tier, or an option of some kind: $10 more, for a 450GB usage cap ?

I'm curious about this too. TekSavvy charges $15/mo to go from a 300GB cap to unlimited on their 28/1 cable plan. Is that feasible for Start?

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by CoreyMe:

I'm curious about this too. TekSavvy charges $15/mo to go from a 300GB cap to unlimited on their 28/1 cable plan. Is that feasible for Start?

Teksavvy is running under non-aggregate pricing, Start is running under Aggregate pricing.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to mlord
said by mlord:

How about one more tier, or an option of some kind: $10 more, for a 450GB usage cap ?

Unfortunately that will have to wait until the capacity rate is reduced. Even the current caps aren't sustainable long-term while the capacity rate is still insanely priced.

yabos

join:2003-02-16
London, ON
said by rocca:

said by mlord:

How about one more tier, or an option of some kind: $10 more, for a 450GB usage cap ?

Unfortunately that will have to wait until the capacity rate is reduced. Even the current caps aren't sustainable long-term while the capacity rate is still insanely priced.

That's probably their plan since they don't like 3rd parties offering better deals for less money than what they offer.

CoreyMe

join:2007-11-03
London, ON
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

Unfortunately that will have to wait until the capacity rate is reduced. Even the current caps aren't sustainable long-term while the capacity rate is still insanely priced.

I guess that answers my question too. Sad to hear that, but I appreciate the reply.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
said by CoreyMe:

I guess that answers my question too. Sad to hear that, but I appreciate the reply.

Some may call me a bit of an optimist at some times, but I have to think the reason it's taking _so_ long to come out with the decision is that the Commission is really trying to get it right. If they do, then consumers will likely have many more options available.

mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

Unfortunately that will have to wait until the capacity rate is reduced. Even the current caps aren't sustainable long-term while the capacity rate is still insanely priced.

Too bad, that. I'm just looking at what my router says our usage has been for each of the past 12 calendar months. Most months are under 300GB, but five of them exceeded 350GB. So your new plans won't work for us.

Hopefully the CRTC will respond at some point soon.

Cheers


TomTor3

@quickplay.com
reply to rocca
Why D2 modems are not supported on Standard Cable anymore? They can easily handle that speed. I just bought Standard Cable service from Start this month, and now I have to already buy a new modem to get the new speeds???? This is not fair! What's the technical explanation to that decision to left behind all D2 owners?

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

said by CoreyMe:

I guess that answers my question too. Sad to hear that, but I appreciate the reply.

Some may call me a bit of an optimist at some times, but I have to think the reason it's taking _so_ long to come out with the decision is that the Commission is really trying to get it right. If they do, then consumers will likely have many more options available.

I just wanna say, that's how North Americans work. Slowly....

Question: Usage cannot be tracked by Rogers right? So technically, it is still unlimited usage. Or does APOI give Rogers the ability to track how much usage you're using?

Also, so you're still losing money on cable with each new subscriber?


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
reply to TomTor3

Why D2 modems are not supported on Standard Cable anymore? They can easily handle that speed. I just bought Standard Cable service from Start this month, and now I have to already buy a new modem to get the new speeds???? This is not fair! What's the technical explanation to that decision to left behind all D2 owners?

i'm almost 99% sure you weren't provided a D2 modem if you just bought a modem let alone the last 6+ months.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
reply to geokilla
said by geokilla:

said by rocca:

said by CoreyMe:

I guess that answers my question too. Sad to hear that, but I appreciate the reply.

Some may call me a bit of an optimist at some times, but I have to think the reason it's taking _so_ long to come out with the decision is that the Commission is really trying to get it right. If they do, then consumers will likely have many more options available.

I just wanna say, that's how North Americans work. Slowly....

Question: Usage cannot be tracked by Rogers right? So technically, it is still unlimited usage. Or does APOI give Rogers the ability to track how much usage you're using?

Also, so you're still losing money on cable with each new subscriber?

I don't think they can actually track individual users but Rogers does track the entire usage and bills them based on it :/


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to geokilla
said by geokilla:

Question: Usage cannot be tracked by Rogers right? So technically, it is still unlimited usage. Or does APOI give Rogers the ability to track how much usage you're using?

No, it's definitely not unlimited. We do track usage and people that are greatly abusing their quota get a call. Once the automated correlation piece is done (waiting on Rogers to finish a piece) then we'll be able to post it on the usage tracker much more easily. Most people have been respectful of their limits and we haven't had to make too many calls or throttle them down.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to TomTor3
said by TomTor3 :

Why D2 modems are not supported on Standard Cable anymore? They can easily handle that speed. I just bought Standard Cable service from Start this month, and now I have to already buy a new modem to get the new speeds???? This is not fair! What's the technical explanation to that decision to left behind all D2 owners?

The new speeds require D3 because they use channel bonding on the upstream and channel bonding is a D3 technology. Unfortunately it's just not technically possible to provision the new packages on the D2 modems.


TomTor3

@quickplay.com
said by rocca:

The new speeds require D3 because they use channel bonding on the upstream and channel bonding is a D3 technology. Unfortunately it's just not technically possible to provision the new packages on the D2 modems.

That's not true. D2 can support up to 30Mbps upstream. I know that in Canada 2Mbps upstream speed sounds incredible, but those kind of speeds were common in Europe 5 years ago using D2 technology. Can you guys double-check it? I know Rogers has this kind of ridiculous requirements (like requiring D3 modems in order to increase monthly cap form 60GB to 80GB) but does Start.ca really have to do that too?

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by TomTor3 :

I know Rogers has this kind of ridiculous requirements (like requiring D3 modems in order to increase monthly cap form 60GB to 80GB) but does Start.ca really have to do that too?

Rogers has final say on what modems can get what speed profiles on their network.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to TomTor3
said by TomTor3 :

That's not true. D2 can support up to 30Mbps upstream. I know that in Canada 2Mbps upstream speed sounds incredible, but those kind of speeds were common in Europe 5 years ago using D2 technology. Can you guys double-check it? I know Rogers has this kind of ridiculous requirements (like requiring D3 modems in order to increase monthly cap form 60GB to 80GB) but does Start.ca really have to do that too?

All the new speed profiles are configured to use channel bonding, without channel bonding support they can't register to pickup the profile, despite theoretical single channel speeds. Ie, the speed is irrelevant, it's the fact that the new profiles are configured using D3 technology. Even if it was technically possible to have a D2 modem pickup channel bonding (which it can't), Red doesn't allow orders to be submitted with D2 modems on the new speeds and will reject the order/change.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

said by geokilla:

Question: Usage cannot be tracked by Rogers right? So technically, it is still unlimited usage. Or does APOI give Rogers the ability to track how much usage you're using?

No, it's definitely not unlimited. We do track usage and people that are greatly abusing their quota get a call. Once the automated correlation piece is done (waiting on Rogers to finish a piece) then we'll be able to post it on the usage tracker much more easily. Most people have been respectful of their limits and we haven't had to make too many calls or throttle them down.

Oh really? Because last I heard and read, there is still no usage tracking for cable IISP customers... When did this change? Or does this only apply to Start and not Teksavvy? The usage tracking that is.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
yeah still think that is true. While I know that it may change soon or never it's not cool to sign up for a 200GB cap then use a TB in a month just cause you can. No way Start wants to state the date the tracking will be live.

They may can track you like they said and call you but it may not be ready where they can force you to pay for overages.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to geokilla
said by geokilla:

Oh really? Because last I heard and read, there is still no usage tracking for cable IISP customers... When did this change?

We've been tracking since end of November.

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to geokilla
said by geokilla:

Oh really? Because last I heard and read, there is still no usage tracking for cable IISP customers... When did this change? Or does this only apply to Start and not Teksavvy? The usage tracking that is.

This seems pretty obvious. With APOI implementation, all traffic goes through Rogers/Cogeco's systems now before handing off to the TPIA's link.. with that rogers and cogeco can now use their same tracking system they use for their own users for the TPIA's.

Tek's Roger's implementation can't do this yet as they're not on APOI yet, so it's basically not tracked and you're under an honour system to stay under your cap if you don't have the unlimited plan.


geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

yeah still think that is true. While I know that it may change soon or never it's not cool to sign up for a 200GB cap then use a TB in a month just cause you can. No way Start wants to state the date the tracking will be live.

They may can track you like they said and call you but it may not be ready where they can force you to pay for overages.

Lol I won't be like that, don't worry. It's just that I normally use around 100GB/month, but sometimes I download anime series and what not, and those series itself would push me up to 150GB or more. Never have I hit 200GB...


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

They may can track you like they said and call you but it may not be ready where they can force you to pay for overages.

While we aren't charging overages at this time due to the lack of the automation component (which is coming soon), it doesn't mean it's open for abuse in the mean-time. That's really my point, ie don't signup expecting unlimited because it won't happen. We have reports that point out the hot spots and we deal with incidents as needed. For people that want to treat it as unlimited, then we have an unlimited option at 6Mbps.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to geokilla
yeah sucks paying rogers 87 for 10/2 is killing me makes me want to cry but nothing else I can get in my area. The min Start has a higher speed cable uncapped serve I'm switching.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to TomTor3
said by TomTor3 :

That's not true. D2 can support up to 30Mbps upstream. I know that in Canada 2Mbps upstream speed sounds incredible, but those kind of speeds were common in Europe 5 years ago using D2 technology. Can you guys double-check it? I know Rogers has this kind of ridiculous requirements (like requiring D3 modems in order to increase monthly cap form 60GB to 80GB) but does Start.ca really have to do that too?

D2 modems can do more than 2mbit/s upload, certainly, but I don't think they can do 30mbit/s. I think the total capacity of an upload channel is around 30mbit, yes, but there is some other limiting factor that means real world home use modems can't. A moot point of course. D2 modems are certainly technically capable of 25/2, but probably not technically capable of 35/3, certainly not capable of 45/4.

All indications are that Rogers has decided not to allow it anyway. And this is different from previous Rogers decisions about D2 modems.. Right now TPIA companies can subscribe 32/1 on D2 modems if they want to, even though the guidance is that D3 should be required on all accounts over 15mbit/s speed.

My understanding is that Start has a portal into Rogers system, and Rogers simply automatically rejects orders when the parameters don't match.

There is still a chance that non-aggregated TPIAs might allow 25/2 on D2 modems, if they get access to the speed before being forced to aggregated later this year. A very slim chance though. And, if it happens, it won't last long. Rogers has announced that come April they will only accept D2 modems on 6mbit/s service.
--
electronicsguru.ca


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

No, it's definitely not unlimited. We do track usage and people that are greatly abusing their quota get a call. Once the automated correlation piece is done (waiting on Rogers to finish a piece) then we'll be able to post it on the usage tracker much more easily. Most people have been respectful of their limits and we haven't had to make too many calls or throttle them down.

I can't help going back to the question of off-peak usage. The cost of off peak usage is basically zero, and reflecting that back to customers would be huge.

Of course Rogers tool would have to be compatible with that type of usage tracking too..
--
electronicsguru.ca

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by Teddy Boom:

I can't help going back to the question of off-peak usage. The cost of off peak usage is basically zero, and reflecting that back to customers would be huge.

Rocca has said a few times that is factored in already. If they were to do "free off-peak", the caps for the metered periods would be lower than the current caps.


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:23
reply to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

I can't help going back to the question of off-peak usage. The cost of off peak usage is basically zero, and reflecting that back to customers would be huge.

Doing so at the same price would mean reducing the on-peak total though because there is an implication that some of the usage will be used off-peak. The marketing/explanation to the average consumer is pretty confusing, ie 100GB on-peak, unlimited off-peak vs 250GB is much easier to visualize the later. We're hoping that the final capacity rates make it moot and we can have an unlimited package and make it simple, if that doesn't come along soon then we'll likely figure out some sort of off-peak option you can add to your account.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Thanks rocca! I was hesitant, because I know you've covered it before. But, I feel strongly about it.

From my perspective it isn't that hard to explain to customers. Everybody understands rushhour. As with the politically difficult on-peak off-peak electrical billing, everybody should be confronted with the true cost of what they are doing.

Try explaining that you really do want a D3 modem for Standard because you'll get a speed upgrade in two weeks if you ask for it, but not on Teksavvy for two more months after that, and only if the CRTC decides Teksavvy (or Acanac who is really Distributel) should get it. but all of that only until November because then everybody is on the same system regardless. Which I do for every most customers looking at Standard/Express, which is pretty much everybody. ARGH!!!
--
electronicsguru.ca

jagerman

join:2011-01-10
Kingston, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to rocca
said by rocca:

The marketing/explanation to the average consumer is pretty confusing, ie 100GB on-peak, unlimited off-peak vs 250GB is much easier to visualize the later. We're hoping that the final capacity rates make it moot and we can have an unlimited package and make it simple, if that doesn't come along soon then we'll likely figure out some sort of off-peak option you can add to your account.

I get the confusion, but couldn't you hide that under a sort of "advanced" plan for people who aren't confused by it? I rather like the ability of more finely tuned plans. You could, for instance, offer something like this for Cogeco-land (numbers vaguely based off the new pricing scheme in the original post):

1) Choose a standard package:
4/.6 w/ 100GB $29.95
20/1.5 w/ 150GB $39.95
30/2 w/ 250GB $49.95
55/2 w/ 350GB $79.95

2) Or build a custom package:
a) Choose your speed:
4/.6 [starting at $25.95]
20/1.5 [starting at $32.95]
30/2 [starting at $39.95]
55/2 [starting at $54.95]

b) Choose your monthly traffic:
50GB [included]
100GB [+$4]
150GB [+$7]
250GB [+$10]
350GB [+$15]
Unlimited [+$14, only available with 4/.6 plan]

c) Choose your extras:
Unlimited off-peak use (12pm-8am) [+$10]
...

I just sort of guessed at numbers to make the "custom" plans add up to the standard plans; obviously you'd need to figure out the appropriate price points.

Just a thought.