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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Student loans why don't some people pay them back?

So I got to say I watch gil and love her shows exp such as princess and till debt do us part. I see on there allot of time people always have student debt. Funny thing is at my wifes work she knows two people who never paid their loin back and it makes them have debt issues.

WTF is with people and student loans I had one when I went to college think I got a bit over $10,000. I know when I went to school I'd pack my luach if I was going to classes all day and not hit up the food on campus as to me that shit is a waste of money. I also packed away all the money I made form my co-ops and when I finished school I got the first job I could and that was a shitty min wage job working for an ISP doing support.

So after I finished school I paid off my loan in full like a bit over a month after I was done school they made a monster 20 something from interest off me maybe it was 50 bucks I can't remember. I'm guessing it cost them more to take care of my account then they made off me.

I don't get why people don't pay them back do some see it as free money or don't see it as important debt because it's the government?


dragonfly

join:2012-09-04

Well, mine's at $37k, I took loans for 5.5 years, CEGEP to University graduation. Monthly payments are $285 with 13 years to go...

To be honest, I've considered moving out of the country.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

I don't get why people don't pay them back

The interest is next to nothing, the payments are small relative to the amount of the loan, and if you lose your job the payments stop until you get another job.

That's why people take forever to pay them off. There are doctors here in town who were paying off their student loans well into their 50s.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3

well that is fine as you're paying them but you got some that simply stop paying them all together. I don't get it I see as it I was given the money so I got to give it back I mean it's not mine.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by TOPDAWG:

well that is fine as you're paying them but you got some that simply stop paying them all together. I don't get it I see as it I was given the money so I got to give it back I mean it's not mine.

You can't just stop paying them. Even the bankruptcy rules for student loans are different. One way or another you owe them the money.

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to TOPDAWG

in terms of loans to pay back, student loans are one of the best ones to not pay in full, and pay as per monthly determined rate.

This is true for those that have multiple loans/CCs/debt and such. The interest rate is so low that pay off the student loan is a dumb move over paying your CC bill that has a 19% interest rate.

basically, this will all depend on each person and what their current loans/debt are. but the student loan is the lowest interest rate one most likely..

now if you only have the student loan as your only item, and had money to pay it off, than yes I would agree with you, only at this time frame where interest rates are so low (for you're gains on investments I mean). But say this was year 2002/2003 were interest rates for savings/GICs and such were higher. It would be better to use the extra money in those investments, and just keep paying the student loan off monthly.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to dragonfly

move so you don't have to pay it back? If that is the case that is wrong is it not that is tax payer money you got. If you spends smart and make a good budget it's much easier to pay back then you think.

Debt scares the bleep out of me. I've never been in debt well other then my student loan when I owed on it. I'm pretty careful with money and budget pretty good. I got a CC but pay it off in full each month only ever had to pay interest once as I forgot to pay it on time. I also paid for 2 of my college terms myself and skipped getting more loan money.

I don't get debt sure some can't help it as a family member gets sick or something but I find most just spend dumb. they owe money but smoke drunk and go out with friends and the like and skip the bills.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

well that is fine as you're paying them but you got some that simply stop paying them all together. I don't get it I see as it I was given the money so I got to give it back I mean it's not mine.

Education should not cost 37K (in the case of dragonfly). Education , like in many European countries, should be "free" all the way into post secondary.

The cost of providing such an education is peanuts considering what a well educated person can bring to the workforce in their lifetime.

Now at the same time I would mandate you maintain a certain GPA level and not take courses that results in a basket weaving doctorate.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..

What's wrong with basket weaving?

Anyway, I work with a girl, I asked her the other day about her student loans, they were paid off a month before finishing school.

She's going to make a good wife to some guy some day.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1

She wasn't from the other side of the pacific was she? seems like these people are loaded and can pay off these loans instantly



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues

well if you do that then the education is not worth anything. The idea of education being a right is fine and all but you got to tie a money value to it. I mean somebody has got to pay for the school and the over paid staff that fulls them as the government already helps with that stuff it would led to insane raises in taxes.

Exp if I you got to school yeah you should make more then the guy who dropped out of high school. School is pretty cheap in Canada anyway. I also find some people go to University and pay far more then they would had they just went to college and the college still would have got them the job they wanted.

I kind of think schools should have classes on debt and the like. I also think the school system is broke as hell. I mean I went to college and had to pay for classes that did not even help me in my chosen career as you had to take 4 gen eds to finish your diploma.



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to DanteX

said by DanteX:

She wasn't from the other side of the pacific was she? seems like these people are loaded and can pay off these loans instantly

No...she's from a hick village outside this area. Strictly middle class family.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

well if you do that then the education is not worth anything. The idea of education being a right is fine and all but you got to tie a money value to it.chosen career as you had to take 4 gen eds to finish your diploma.

How does educating the masses for free make it worthless?
By your analogy, grade school and High school are a waste of time since it's "free".

I mean somebody has got to pay for the school and the over paid staff that fulls them as the government already helps with that stuff it would led to insane raises in taxes.

To bring out my well worn tag line.. you tax cuts at work.

I would argue that a well educated person would return infinitely more money then the money spent on educating them for free.

Exp if I you got to school yeah you should make more then the guy who dropped out of high school. School is pretty cheap in Canada anyway. I also find some people go to University and pay far more then they would had they just went to college and the college still would have got them the job they wanted.

Look I'm not saying that the high school drop out(and how would they get into post secondary if they dropped out in the first place ). There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

well it's simple if a skill becomes common cause people get free school then that skill is no longer as rare and is not worth as much.

Now I do agree with the idea you're saying as I think in the states they could use your idea. The government will be more then happy to give people welfare money but won't give them money to go to school. To me that makes no damn sense. It's like people will reward those who do dumb shit but not those who want to fix their lives and become successful. Now you can go to trade college and the government will pay for it but it's not pushed as much as it should be.

Same goes for when people say if they raised min wage it would help people. it won't as company's then will make their products cost more. Now by the time all company's do that people may even be worse off then they were before.

PS. I am a high school drop out I just got my GED as it was faster and the school I went too was shit.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by TOPDAWG:

well it's simple if a skill becomes common cause people get free school then that skill is no longer as rare and is not worth as much.

i disagree...free (or close to it) post secondary education is quite common in many European countries and they seem to do quite well with that type of system (the Northern European nations anyway, as they have work ethics, not like the lazy South).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to TOPDAWG

Wow, did you really say that?

It's about who you are, not how you are educated. I frequently joke I'm not my father's son. He was a handy bastard, it's not in me. I understand it all, I know how to do it all, but it just doesn't translate to my hands.

So saying that if everyone goes to school and the skill becomes worthless is an asinine statement. For example, I don't have the aptitude to become an architect, and I'm sure the same goes for many here.

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


dragonfly

join:2012-09-04
reply to TOPDAWG

The "free education" usually comes at a price -- you need a minimum GPA out of high school in order to qualify.

Since I already described my debt situation, I'll describe my own unique circumstances:

- Dropped out of high school at 17 due to emotional breakdown following my dad's death. Failed all my last year's courses but one.
- Drifted around for 5-6 years doing odd jobs and generally being a loser
- Went back and finished high school at the age of 23
- Mother is on a pension and lived in the boonies, I had no savings, student loans it was, and I needed to live away from home
- Moved to Montreal for the last year of CEGEP, had a great CRC score, chose Dawson, promptly get caught in the middle of the school shooting
- Switched to Concordia as a mature student in Biology, to get out of that toxic environment at Dawson
- Four years of university, I changed programs 3 times and took a year longer to graduate than I should have otherwise.
- Graduated with a BA in Classics, minor in Computer Science
- Landed an internship at a software engineering firm, hired on full time as a C#/ASP.Net developer, I now gross around $55k with two years experience.

Student loan of $37k mostly due to being ineligible for bursaries my final year. It'd be $28k otherwise.

I can afford to pay it back, but $300/mo for 15 years is quite a lot for anyone.

Anyhow, the point being, I myself would not have qualified for the "free tuition" under the Nordic system due to a low GPA out of high school.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.

i agree...there are likely scenarios where there could be some people that would just seem to "fit" into programs they are really interested in, but can't do because of cost.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to dragonfly

said by dragonfly:
I can afford to pay it back, but $300/mo for 15 years is quite a lot for anyone.
it's peanuts compared to a mortgage.

as well, had you not made that investment in yourself, instead of a decent job paying $55k/year, perhaps you would be pouring coffee for $25k/year...the ROI on your education is only a few years (factoring in your taxes, etc)...that's a pretty significant improvement.

quote:
Anyhow, the point being, I myself would not have qualified for the "free tuition" under the Nordic system due to a low GPA out of high school.

then you work to improve your marks, or you save up your own money and go (which is what you did, with student loans)...either way, you are better off.

and good for you for going back to school and bettering yourself.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Raptor
Not a Dumptruck

join:2001-10-21
London, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to dragonfly

said by dragonfly:

- Landed an internship at a software engineering firm, hired on full time as a C#/ASP.Net developer, I now gross around $55k with two years experience.

Student loan of $37k mostly due to being ineligible for bursaries my final year. It'd be $28k otherwise.

I can afford to pay it back, but $300/mo for 15 years is quite a lot for anyone.

If you're grossing $55k a year, you should be able to pay down that $37k in less than 5 years, and that's still not being all that aggressive. I don't know what your interest rate is, but unless you can perform better on your investment returns, that ought to be your focus.

dirtyjeffer See Profile is right, I imagine your salary wouldn't be in the mid 50's and likely still to rise (as you're still new) if you didn't put down the coin to goto school in the first place.

As to the OP's original point, some people are just lazy. Others may have a more active money management style and their savings are returning higher growth than the interest on their loans. It's just math in that case.
--
....where's my fiber?


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to TOPDAWG

well dragonfly is not a good exp of what I'm talking about I really mean the people who just stop paying altogether. Exp most times the government will leave you alone even if you pay 50 a month but you have some people who just stop paying altogether.

Like I said debt scares me to death as my parents were paying for shit they had 10 years ago when I was growing up.

PS. Good for you dragon improving your life.



nonBell

@steadfastdns.net
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

said by TOPDAWG:

well that is fine as you're paying them but you got some that simply stop paying them all together. I don't get it I see as it I was given the money so I got to give it back I mean it's not mine.

Education should not cost 37K (in the case of dragonfly). Education , like in many European countries, should be "free" all the way into post secondary.

The cost of providing such an education is peanuts considering what a well educated person can bring to the workforce in their lifetime.

Now at the same time I would mandate you maintain a certain GPA level and not take courses that results in a basket weaving doctorate.

Very often I hear a number quoted for a student loan, but I have not seen any breakdown on how much was that was from tuition and how much was that was for room and board, and other expenses. So, comparing 37K with "free" is meaningless as I imagine a portion of that 37K is living expenses that European students have to pay as well, possibly higher even.

What I know is that I often see many students with their Macbook Pro sipping coffee at starbucks/second cup. How many of these are using their student loan I don't know, but I would say there must be some. They could have reduced their debt load if they decide they can use a cheaper Macbook (rather than pro, or god forbids a Dell), or drink less expensive beverages. I won't even go into those with big phone bills etc.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Raptor

said by Raptor:

If you're grossing $55k a year, you should be able to pay down that $37k in less than 5 years, and that's still not being all that aggressive.

More than a decade ago I was grossing a fuckton less than $55k a year and managed to pay off around $30k in 5 years so I don't see that as an issue for anyone. It does take a lot of working hours though... work hard now, play more later.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

yeah during school I had no life hell don't have much of one now. I never smoked can't even tell you what alcohol taste like as I've never had any and it's rare for me to go out. I'm a boring Mofo.

I still have a lot of crap I don't need but yet never been in debt.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

More than a decade ago I was grossing a fuckton less than $55k a year and managed to pay off around $30k in 5 years so I don't see that as an issue for anyone. It does take a lot of working hours though... work hard now, play more later.

The money is practically free though and the payment terms are the most flexible you'll ever encounter, so I can completely understand people taking as long as they want to pay it off. My wife certainly does, and the extra cashflow each month lets us pay for, you know, baby food and diapers.

You can't just walk away from it, though. One way or another the loan is getting paid off, even if you go bankrupt.


pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by elwoodblues:

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.

i agree...there are likely scenarios where there could be some people that would just seem to "fit" into programs they are really interested in, but can't do because of cost.

I think it's very possible to have a glut of certain degrees if they are free. Heck even with the burden of huge loans many people get degrees with low career value in the US, then slave away the stereotypical starbucks job to pay them back over a lifetime.

I do support most education being free, but there needs to be limits and requirements that aren't there in the system right now. With some constraints, a fully paid system could actually be more efficient at providing economic value. Right now we fork over 50-70% of the money required but have basically no input into how it is used. Students and universities want to crank out tons of liberal arts degrees because they are easier? Go nuts. Medecine and engineering are hard? No worries.

The free systems in Europe don't operate so loosely AFAIK. Not only could you not keep your free ride in art history with a D average, but you may not even get into that if the demand on the student side is much higher than the demand on the career side. To me both of these make sense (requiring more performance and more value than we do now from the money taxpayers put in). If we're going to go 'free' the money has to come with more strings to make sure it is well spent, because paying for slackers to extend their carefree childhood into their 20s with easy free degrees is not a good use of money.

dragonfly

join:2012-09-04
reply to TOPDAWG

About the most damning thing you'll find are CEGEP dropouts who took 2 years of student loans just to move out of their parents' houses. I saw that a lot.

But I think if you look at individual cases, you'll find very few fit the stereotypical bill of "the unemployed Ph.D. in Basket-Weaving". If someone has an advanced degree and is unemployed, it's almost always because a family situation prevents them from doing the post-doc rounds. For instance, it's hard to make it on $25k/yr when you have a child.

Life finds a way to get in the way, unless you live like a monk.



A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Education should not cost 37K (in the case of dragonfly). Education , like in many European countries, should be "free" all the way into post secondary.

The problem with this is I agree with part of it. Tuition should be free, but what do you do about books, rent, food, etc.?

I went back to school a few years ago (done now) and was amazed at how many students admitted they got an excess of OSAP money. This paid for their vacations during break. They were also the ones that seemed to always be buying lunch and coffee, etc. I packed lunch, thermos of coffee, and such - however, I was completely paying my own way. Free money doesn't feel real to some (what percentage I don't know) and they don't really think about paying it back.

I was in a co-op program where most should have been able to pay their own way after working, but still seemed to be getting OSAP. My first time through college my parents covered my first 8 months and after that I worked breaks and/or co-op. It was wonderful as I did it without loans at all.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

Debt scares the bleep out of me. I've never been in debt well other then my student loan when I owed on it. I'm pretty careful with money and budget pretty good. I got a CC but pay it off in full each month only ever had to pay interest once as I forgot to pay it on time. I also paid for 2 of my college terms myself and skipped getting more loan money.

Keep that attitude and hopefully that will serve you well. I've done my best to avoid debt. I don't count a small equity loan against a paid off home. I pay my cc each month, pay down the equity loan, and try to keep myself in the best financial situation that I can.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to dragonfly

I got a CNTN diploma and it's not worth shit as I finished school right when the melt down in the markets happened and issue I face now is while I got the skills everyone just wants to hire people with years of exp under their belt.

Every time I do get an interview I always get the oh we went with the person with more exp.

I'm working now to get into a government program that teaches you how you run your own business.