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PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
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·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to EUS

Re: Memorial UniversityStudents can't identify continents on map

said by EUS:

Saw this over the holidays, »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy and as I'm a fan of Clarke, Heinlein, and of course Asimov, I'm afraid that the future may turn out to be more like idiocracy, and not like that proposed by any of those fine writers.

Asimov's story "The Feeling of Power": People could not do ANY arithmetic without a calculator/computer, they didn't even know they had the capacity.

Cyril Kornbluth's 1951 story "The Marching Morons": Sounds like that "Idiocracy" movie you saw was ripped off from this story.

Another Kornbluth story that overlaps: "The Little Black Bag".

John D. MacDonald's "Spectator Sport" (1950):
See here for a discussion:
»thetrapofsolidgold.blogspot.com/···ort.html


lugnut

@communications.com
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by lugnut :

I tell ya, I'm just sooooooooooooooo damned happy I never had any kids of my own.

Until you spend your last years a lonely desolate lost soul.

Having kids is no guarantee that you won't be lonely. I know a lot of people who haven't traded more than 5 words with their kids in the past 30 years.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to vue666

I'm not surprised at all. I took a travel course a couple of decades ago. One of the segments was geography. Identifying all provinces, states, capital and/or major cities (generically placing them close to where they were) was a requirement. ie. it's more important to know where NYC is than Albany. The same was done for the other continents, although less detail for some areas. Airport codes as well were required.

Now, you have a group of people in the room who (you would think) are interested in travel since they want to work in the field. Most were clueless. Of course, for a long time I kept a couple of blank maps and coloured in where I'd visited. There's a couple of online versions of the same idea kicking around.


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to lugnut

said by lugnut :

said by peterboro:

said by lugnut :

I tell ya, I'm just sooooooooooooooo damned happy I never had any kids of my own.

Until you spend your last years a lonely desolate lost soul.

Having kids is no guarantee that you won't be lonely. I know a lot of people who haven't traded more than 5 words with their kids in the past 30 years.

Ok there is a pretty good chance, and very likely, you will spend your last years a lonely desolate lost soul.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to PX Eliezer7

Feeling of Power, I remember that short story.
I have not read Kornbluth...
--
~ Project Hope ~



horsey

@eastlink.ca
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

There is something wrong when university students can not even identify North America or the Atlantic Ocean on a blank map....

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundl···115.html

But not surprised as we as a society now spend more time & money on entertainment and escapism then on education and enlightment...

WOW what a great vid that prof is spot on. We need more teachers like her.
My pet peve is math...Are we that hard up for carpenters in Halifax we give them calculator's?
One of my all time fave math vids.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkp···A2rkpBSY


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
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join:2004-02-16
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·Start Communicat..
reply to ekster

Re: Memorial University Students suffer from incontinence

said by ekster:

I know that it can make people lazy. I know some people who have been driving for 10+ years and still don't know the 4 major highways in Montreal that every single one of them takes at least twice a day...

But do they reach their destination? I think this is a bad analogy, if you have a decent sense of direction you can find your way without knowing the name of the road. I do this all the time going to the cottage , take all kind of backroads knowing which is north and which is east and sensing direction from the daylight. But i cant tell you the names of the roads.


Kitlope

join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab
reply to Thane_Bitter

Re: Memorial UniversityStudents can't identify continents on map

said by Thane_Bitter:

said by ekster:

I don't get it, I figured that, if anything, people should know these things better now because of computers and Internet as it takes 2 seconds to find a place on a map, and everyone is constantly exposed to people from across the world...

That's the osmosis theory of learning, don't teach, just show stuff to kids and they will learn on their own. Forget theory, knowledge and facts, all kids should be able to formulate complex ideas, relationships, and theories without any tools or underpinning logic. Naturally, why know anything when the answer can be found nearly instantly either from a computer, smart phone or someone else.

Once you couple that with today’s classroom and student management "you get a gold star just for coming to class! / you failed but welcome to the next grade" the end result is a generation which started off being curious but ignorant and successfully transformed them into utterly stupid narcissistic beings full of want.

It's like the old skill of remembering phone numbers. Shit, I think in my mid teens in late 80s early 90s I remembered 30 or 40 numbers for different family and friends. Today I can still remember a few of them even though I haven't called them in 20 years. Now I can barely remember my own 2 numbers, as all the work is done for me within the address book of the phone.


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
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join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to vue666

I resemble that remark....



urbanriot
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join:2004-10-18
Canada
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·Cogeco Cable
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

There is something wrong when university students can not even identify North America or the Atlantic Ocean on a blank map....

I disagree. I feel it's meaningless.

I could identify tiny islands on a map and tell you what languages they speak and the primary religion, if one exists, but it's only useful to me as geographical facts were a necessary aspect of my job a while back. Now... they're just trivia.

Some people feel that history is important. I know plenty about wars in other countries and how they effect the current political climate and how today's citizens in foreign lands feel about wars they won / lost generations ago... but North American trivia? I knew there were wars and I know some names that were involved, but I couldn't tell you what the years were or who won what war.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all trivia unless it has a direct application on your life. Eventually you hit an age where all that information is replaced with other information anyhow. I was a decent C / C++ coder in the early 90's and now I doubt I could complete a hello world function without googling.


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to vue666

The more I learn instills in me a desire to learn more as I realize how much I do not know...

Knowledge is not a bad thing...

Yes my mind is full of trivia...what was the first year for the Ford V-8, what was the last year for Studebaker, what team won the Stanley Cup in 1967 or 1978, what was the name of the Dallas police officer Lee Harvey Oswald shot, what is the capital of Saskatchewan, what is the capital of Nebraska....

Knowing this stuff I do not perceive to be a liability. Does it assist me in doing my daily duties as a network system admin? NO...



CanadianRip

join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON
reply to vue666

You people sound like my math professor rambling on about how the Calculator was going to destroy math forever. That evil green vacuum florescent display of Math death just destroyed civilization.

The check out lines would be frozen still while helpless people's batteries ran out and they couldn't properly verify their change due. The technology will just fail us in the end! An actual assimilation of an argument made by one of my professors, in one of his idiotic ramblings.

Anyways just wanted to point out how similar some folk in this thread sound.



Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:4
reply to vue666

Yes well, I get lost in Eastern Passage sometimes LOL but I can navigate crowded cities in Europe.


analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
reply to elwoodblues

Re: Memorial University Students suffer from incontinence

said by elwoodblues:

Unfortunately that's what technology brings, makes people "stupid' as they don't need to think.

I can't count the number of times I've watched people look at the cash register to see what change they need to provide, when I've already calculated the amount in my head.

I will admit there are times in which I'm just plain lazy and will use a calculator instead of doing the math in my head.

Well its easy to figure out change when you don't have to do other things at the same time. If I have lots of customers to deal with I don't bother with in head calculations, just enter the amount they gave me and wait for the POS to spit out the change.

analog andy

join:2005-01-03
Surrey, BC
reply to vue666

Re: Memorial UniversityStudents can't identify continents on map

When the teachers don't know anything and they have 100 Pro D days per year you can see how kids these days don't know as much as say 30 or more years ago.

Wait another 20 years when the current generation of "internet" kids is ready to be the teachers. We're gonna have some issues.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by analog andy:

When the teachers don't know anything and they have 100 Pro D days per year you can see how kids these days don't know as much as say 30 or more years ago.

Wait another 20 years when the current generation of "internet" kids is ready to be the teachers. We're gonna have some issues.

i think the vast majority of teachers are quite knowledgeable...the issue is the kids...they feel they should get straight As just for showing up...the stories i hear from my friends are sad.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


lugnut

@communications.com
reply to vue666

Let's face it. GPS is doing to geography what calculators did to math skills and spelling and grammar checkers have done to the English language.

Science fiction was right. We ARE becoming a world of morons.



urbanriot
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Canada
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reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

i think the vast majority of teachers are quite knowledgeable...the issue is the kids...they feel they should get straight As just for showing up...the stories i hear from my friends are sad.

I wouldn't say that at all... it seems between a 1/3 split between teachers that are knowledgeable and care, teachers that are dumb and shouldn't be 'teaching' children and teachers that don't get a shit and can't wait to retire.

I don't know if teaching ability applies to this issue or not but if you engage kids properly, you can teach them faster.


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
reply to lugnut

said by lugnut :

Considering we all learned the 7 continents and 5 oceans in grade 4 geography, I have to ask, "WTF are they teaching kids today in elementary schools?"

Imaginary self esteem?

Advanced sharing?

Tournament Nintendo?

Or are the schools leaving it all up to PBS and videogames to teach the kids nowadays? Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

My kid is 9 and his homeworks are complicated, more than they were when I was in 4th grade in the 1980's. Sometimes as an adult I cannot understand some of his excersizes, but one thing is true, geography is not taught at all because I'm sure he wouldn't be able to find Canada on a blank map.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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Kitchener, ON
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·Rogers Portable ..
reply to vue666

The kids getting out of university are very stupid. Not only don't they know geography, their history, math and spelling is horrible. They can't tell time either. Yet, these are the people getting the good paying jobs. And you wonder why society is collapsing.

Part of the problem is that schools prep kids for university rather that community college, so they're taught things like vertices in grade 2 rather than 5*8. I was talking to a young lady who got her MBA and plans on going back to college to learn something so she can get the jobs she wants. Otherwise, she'll end up with a .gov job or executive position where knowing things isn't important...just a good GPA in the study of BS.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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Kitchener, ON
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·Rogers Portable ..
reply to Xstar_Lumini

said by Xstar_Lumini:

My kid is 9 and his homeworks are complicated, more than they were when I was in 4th grade in the 1980's. Sometimes as an adult I cannot understand some of his excersizes, but one thing is true, geography is not taught at all because I'm sure he wouldn't be able to find Canada on a blank map.

Yes, kids are bringing home complex homework, but they can't add, read/spell nor tell time. But they do know things that 99% of the population isn't aware of.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


urbanriot
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Canada
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reply to Xstar_Lumini

said by Xstar_Lumini:

geography is not taught at all because I'm sure he wouldn't be able to find Canada on a blank map.

Hmm that's odd because the standard Catholic school board curriculum has them tested on all the provinces and their capitals around the age of 6/7.

The public school board curriculum has them tested on all the provinces around the age of 8/9.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

maybe so, but they don't fail kids any more, they just push them through...so they could say the capitol of India is Ottawa and as long as they don't skip school, they pass.



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON

Yup, it's all about making little Johnny feel good about himself nowadays. Why tell him that acting like an asshole is going to make him a failure in life?
--
Tom



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

well, it's also why i didn't buy the government's claim of "We have higher graduation rates (among the best), blah, blah, blah"...of course our graduation rates are high, everyone passes now (as long as you show up).



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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I'm finding even higher education seems to be like that now. The course I'm taking in college should have failed some people based on their lack of respect for their classmates and professors in class (they spoke amongst themselves, louder than the profs constantly). The college still gave them passing grades last semester. The profs are all threatening to fail them this semester though. We'll see how that works out.
--
Tom



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

having some friends in the education field, i am not surprised hearing that...my one friend, who is a research prof, believes Universities today are more of a business than an actual place of learning...his said the biggest scam going is where Universities now offer a (i can't recall the name it was given) selection of "general courses" to allow students to attend University, without actually taking anything related to a field...sort of a "Introductory to University" that has very generic class, which are likely ineligible for anything you would eventually get into afterwards...think of a University version of "Grade 12"...just a generic vague course selection to collect $5000-$9000 in tuition fees.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Misaow

join:2010-10-19
Ottawa, ON
reply to vue666

Warning, wall of text inc.

Reminds me of a class I took in 20xx in finance at Ottawa U, nights 7:30-10:30 (info withheld to avoid any issues). I forget the name of the class but it's where students were introduced to FIFO and LIFO (in french mind you, PEPS, DEPS).

Anyways, I only went to 3 classes out of the semester because the learning environment in class was very destructive. 1st class, mid term and class project presentation. I don't count the final exam as a class.

Right off the bat in the first class the teacher could not control the class, everyone was talking over each other, the slides in the presentation were in English (french class), we were not given a break at all during the 3hrs and so on. I opted to skip the classes and simply read the slides/class materials on my own time since the class had no actual homework to hand in, only mid-term, final and class project.

I showed up to the mid-term, teacher threatened to flunk me cause he didn't know who I was, let me do the mid-term anyways stating I would not be getting a good grade. Blow through the mid-term and leave well before anyone else, including my very good friend who whoops me in any subject.

Next class, according to my friend, the teacher corrected the mid-term and was very angry that over 30% of the class got below the 45% passing mark, and that 80% of the class had under 60%. Only 2 people got above 80%, myself at 96.4% and my friend at 95.2%. During the correction of the exam the teacher apparently did not let anyone take notes on the correct answers, nor did he let them keep a copy of there exams. Apparently I was blamed for his inability to grade curve anyone.

Cue final exam time, I arrive in the gymnasium and the teacher specifically arranged the names so I would sit in the desk directly in front of his. I finish the exam extremely early (45minutes for a 3hrs exam) and the teacher told me when I handed my copy in that he would ensure that I failed the class.

I passed with an A- (he dinged me hard on the class project) and to my knowledge no one in the class failed, despite them stating that the final was impossible and having failed the mid-term... They must all have gotten A+s on the groups projects... Anyways I was accused of cheating because the teacher had never seen a student capable of learning his material without actually being present in the class. Turns out I was not cheating and a comity formally apologized to me and stuff.

And no I did not do this for every class, only 1 other class was I able to perform this glorious task. I almost failed 3 classes in total, but I mean come on... those HR classes are total BS.

TL;DR
Teacher could not believe it was not butter!

Also sorry if I wasted 5 minutes of your time, and English spelling.



ekster
Hi there
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join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
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That's more or less why I had so much trouble in college. And at the very end, I was showing up only to hand in assignments and do tests. Teachers were having trouble allowing me to even write the exams because they had no idea who I was.

I've now gone back to university part time though. The online courses (distance education program as my school calls it) are just awesome.

I have no one bothering me, wasting time with stupid questions because they're unable to pay attention or do the required work. I just need to make sure to email my assignments on time and show up for the exam in class. The rest is all up to me in my own house.

I'm actually finding myself enjoying going back to school with this program, even if the extra work can take it's toll on my free time.



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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Mississauga, ON
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It's funny. I went back to college and I have had to complain to the profs about how rude people are in the class since they speak over the profs while screwing around all the time. The one prof said to me that I should be happy knowing that those people are going to fail. I told him that I was happy with that, but that I'm still not happy that MY ability to learn is suffering because of them.

I don't care if they've paid tuition. If they aren't there to learn, they should be kicked out.
--
Tom