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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

Ontario to outsource some procedures to specialised clinics

This not to be a political discussion, it's been proposed by a Liberal Health Minister, but primarily deals with health care. I feel it's important that it's out in the open where we can discuss(argue?) about it then hiding it in CanPOL.

That said, Deb Mathews, DJ's favourite Health Minister, was speaking to the Canadian Club, where she announced that the province was moving certain procedures out of hospitals into "not for profit" specialized clinics.

“In the coming weeks we will be launching a call for proposal for a provincewide expansion of specialized clinics for vision care,” Matthews told more than 350 people at a Canadian Club luncheon at the Fairmont Royal York Hotel.
“Over the course of 2013 and 2014, we are planning calls for proposals for other routine procedures, including colonoscopies, dialysis, hip and knee surgeries, and MRIs.”
Services would continue to be covered by OHIP

Now one on hand I can see this making sense , stretching that health dollar even further, but on the other hand it makes me wonder if it's the beginning of the thin wedge of privatization?

Personally, my GP has always sent me down the road to the hospital(it's literally at the bottom of the street where he has his practice) for any kind of medical imaging, his reasoning was he got a better result, despite the fact that further down the road there is a private imaging clinic.

Now the private clinics I've been to, and I've been to several , have less then modern equipment and the facilities leave a less then desired impression on me, compared to hospitals.

At the same time, if it's a not for profit facility, why would I invest millions in equipment (or will it be provided by the government?)if I can't make a buck on the deal?
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.



corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC
reply to elwoodblues

In other words, the shouldice model.

Which works extremely well and should have been implemented eons ago.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by DKS:

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Considering that the one particular example in question was for cosmetic surgery, I think it's safe to assume that these are for-profit clinics. This is not the model being proposed by Matthews.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Ormond Beach, FL
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

At the same time, if it's a not for profit facility, why would I invest millions in equipment (or will it be provided by the government?)if I can't make a buck on the deal?

Not for profit is just an illusion perpetrated by their accountant. The principle's salary draw, funded by your tax dollars, no matter how obscene will facilitate that status.

On the other had we have some real morally corrupt scum bags in administration riding the sunshine list at our local hospital.


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Ormond Beach, FL

said by donoreo:

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.

A private clinic and a few hot nurses for the anal adventures of donereo as a lucrative venture and a business model is formed. As a bonus think of all the lives it would save.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by elwoodblues:

At the same time, if it's a not for profit facility, why would I invest millions in equipment (or will it be provided by the government?)if I can't make a buck on the deal?

Not for profit is just an illusion perpetrated by their accountant. The principle's salary draw, funded by your tax dollars, no matter how obscene will facilitate that status.

On the other had we have some real morally corrupt scum bags in administration riding the sunshine list at our local hospital.

BINGO! And instead of paying a decent wage for staff, they'll hire the cheapest, most inexperienced staff they can find.

QOS will suffer and it will end up costing twice as much because the end result will be poor and will have to be done again. (speculation yes, anecdotal evidence, yes)
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
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·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

I've been to a clinic that does just that - well, colonoscopies and more or less similar procedures. It's just a block from one of the hospitals, but it's a private clinic. That was a couple of years ago, so it's not new. They probably want to expand it.


lugnut

@communications.com
reply to Gone

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

BINGO! And instead of paying a decent wage for staff, they'll hire the cheapest, most inexperienced staff they can find.

Why? Hospitals, for all intents and purposes, are non-profit organizations. Doctors offices are for-profit, even.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to lugnut

said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

Considering that we have mice running around in the halls of GNGH, I'll take my chances thanks.


lugnut

@communications.com

said by Gone:

said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

Considering that we have mice running around in the halls of GNGH, I'll take my chances thanks.

I'd much rather risk the remote possibility of contracting Hantavirus from hospital food than the very real possibility of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·voip.ms
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to lugnut

said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

That was in the same building as the clinic I went to. Would have been less scary if they had said right away which clinic it was. They first released something like "patients who went to some clinic in Ottawa may have been infected..." They got the whole city panicking for a couple of days before they released the details.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to lugnut

said by lugnut :

I'd much rather risk the remote possibility of contracting Hantavirus from hospital food than the very real possibility of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope.

The chance of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope is no more "very real" than the aforementioned chance of contracting hanta.

Then there was all that C.Dif and MRSA when I was on the third floor of St. Cats General this past September. Stool inspections every time you take a shit are a wonderful thing.

The very real point here is that it doesn't matter where you go for a medical procedure, be it a hospital or a clinic, if there are issues with the sanitary conditions you could get sick. Or not.


koira
This Life
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join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
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reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by donoreo:

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.

A private clinic and a few hot nurses for the anal adventures of donereo as a lucrative venture and a business model is formed. As a bonus think of all the lives it would save.

sounds very similar to a movie that was on late last Saturday night


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Considering that the one particular example in question was for cosmetic surgery, I think it's safe to assume that these are for-profit clinics. This is not the model being proposed by Matthews.

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/dirtyhospitals/


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by Gone:

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

Thank you. I was reading this thread for the first time prepared to post a response into elwoodblues insinuation that specialized clinics will hire low wage earners when the 'official' medical industry does the same.

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/dirtyhospitals/

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by DKS:

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.

If it's not for profit I would suspect that the motivation is access to care rather than cost savings.

As I said before and will say again, all the same "fears" that apply to moving specific procedures to specialized clinics apply equally to a hospital setting as well. If one down here is lucky enough to still have a local hospital, it's not some shining modern facility like in Hamilton or Toronto (at least not until March anyway, the new hospital in St. Cats is outright impressive)

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Ormond Beach, FL

said by Gone:

As I said before and will say again, all the same "fears" that apply to moving specific procedures to specialized clinics apply equally to a hospital setting as well. If one down here is lucky enough to still have a local hospital, it's not some shining modern facility like in Hamilton or Toronto (at least not until March anyway, the new hospital in St. Cats is outright impressive)

A "shining modern facility' is not a guarantee of infection control. Peterborough Regional Health Centre is only 4 years old but is run by a arrogant prick dismissive of most of the lower level staff including housekeeping and cleaning. I don't see them being too enthusiastic about doing a good job under his abysmal stewardship.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Ormond Beach, FL

said by Gone:

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

It's a shame. A nice new facility but underfunded from the start then they bring in a hatchet man to turn around the faux deficit and the place goes to shit.


Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

Same thing happened in Niagara, except the backlash was so intense that the government turfed the CEO only to appoint the CEO of St. Joe's in Hamilton as "interim supervisor" which became permanent supervisor a few months ago.

How that man can realistically run two of the largest health systems in the entire country is beyond me.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

don't worry...mismanagement isn't exclusive to your regions...plenty of it here too.



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by Gone:

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

It's a shame. A nice new facility but underfunded from the start then they bring in a hatchet man to turn around the faux deficit and the place goes to shit.

Sounds like Peterborough and Sudbury have a lot in common...we waited 10+ years and stopped construction just short of the goal due to deficits and whatnot....we have a "new" tower...along with the old towers...and no parking...and have more problems than ever...

I don't know if this would be better, I know some oral surgeries are done in surgeon's offices and they are covered by OHIP....
Things like wisdom teeth removal I think are covered by OHIP?...If they're medically neccessary of course...

But anywho...nothing beats our former CEO, look up "Vicki Kaminski"...now there's a laugh, talk about taxpayers picking up the whole cost of her MBA?....

Unfortunately she's Eastern Health in NF's problem now ....

I maintain that you're going to get incompetence regardless of who is at the helm...and there will be money gouging...even at hospitals....

I would say for infection control, provided everything is sterilized things should be better....

I won't be more scared than I was in 1999, had Jaw Surgery at Toronto Western Hospital I believe....had the surgery Wednesday morning and was discharged Friday morning because he said "there are sick people here"....and the man next door to me in my semi-private room was coughing up blood and it was on his stuff, and on the floor....it was everywhere....

...I figure if its a clinic at least you can't have people stuffed in there like sardines....for routine stuff anyways...I'm not against it...so long as there is some accountability and health inspectors are in regularly to check the facilities (surprise/weekly inspections, etc).

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to elwoodblues

it will be run as efficiently as the pearson airport is, with all the experienced scanners and cop a feel contractors.



J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to elwoodblues

How is this new though? We have several private clinics in Kitchener, including an MRI clinic.

The poop clinics their business after the hospital uses feces laced equipment 1 too many times. So hospitals generally don't do the poopy business anymore.

BTW: if you truly want this to me non-political, shots at DJ because of his hatred because of the incompetence of Deb Mathews should have been left for the other forum...just saying.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein