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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to elwoodblues

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to elwoodblues

Re: Ontario to outsource some procedures to specialised clinics

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by DKS:

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Considering that the one particular example in question was for cosmetic surgery, I think it's safe to assume that these are for-profit clinics. This is not the model being proposed by Matthews.

lugnut
@communications.com

lugnut

Anon

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/o ··· ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/s ··· nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by donoreo:

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.

A private clinic and a few hot nurses for the anal adventures of donereo as a lucrative venture and a business model is formed. As a bonus think of all the lives it would save.
MichelR
join:2011-07-03
Trois-Rivieres, QC

MichelR to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

I've been to a clinic that does just that - well, colonoscopies and more or less similar procedures. It's just a block from one of the hospitals, but it's a private clinic. That was a couple of years ago, so it's not new. They probably want to expand it.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to lugnut

Premium Member

to lugnut
said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/o ··· ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/s ··· nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

Considering that we have mice running around in the halls of GNGH, I'll take my chances thanks.

lugnut
@communications.com

lugnut

Anon

said by Gone:

said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/o ··· ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/s ··· nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

Considering that we have mice running around in the halls of GNGH, I'll take my chances thanks.

I'd much rather risk the remote possibility of contracting Hantavirus from hospital food than the very real possibility of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope.
MichelR
join:2011-07-03
Trois-Rivieres, QC

MichelR to lugnut

Member

to lugnut
said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/o ··· ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/s ··· nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

That was in the same building as the clinic I went to. Would have been less scary if they had said right away which clinic it was. They first released something like "patients who went to some clinic in Ottawa may have been infected..." They got the whole city panicking for a couple of days before they released the details.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to lugnut

Premium Member

to lugnut
said by lugnut :

I'd much rather risk the remote possibility of contracting Hantavirus from hospital food than the very real possibility of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope.

The chance of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope is no more "very real" than the aforementioned chance of contracting hanta.

Then there was all that C.Dif and MRSA when I was on the third floor of St. Cats General this past September. Stool inspections every time you take a shit are a wonderful thing.

The very real point here is that it doesn't matter where you go for a medical procedure, be it a hospital or a clinic, if there are issues with the sanitary conditions you could get sick. Or not.

koira
Hey Siri Walk Me
Premium Member
join:2004-02-16

koira to peterboro

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to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by donoreo:

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.

A private clinic and a few hot nurses for the anal adventures of donereo as a lucrative venture and a business model is formed. As a bonus think of all the lives it would save.

sounds very similar to a movie that was on late last Saturday night

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to Gone

to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Considering that the one particular example in question was for cosmetic surgery, I think it's safe to assume that these are for-profit clinics. This is not the model being proposed by Matthews.

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2 ··· spitals/

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot

Premium Member

said by Gone:

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

Thank you. I was reading this thread for the first time prepared to post a response into elwoodblues insinuation that specialized clinics will hire low wage earners when the 'official' medical industry does the same.

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to Gone

to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2 ··· spitals/

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by DKS:

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.

If it's not for profit I would suspect that the motivation is access to care rather than cost savings.

As I said before and will say again, all the same "fears" that apply to moving specific procedures to specialized clinics apply equally to a hospital setting as well. If one down here is lucky enough to still have a local hospital, it's not some shining modern facility like in Hamilton or Toronto (at least not until March anyway, the new hospital in St. Cats is outright impressive)
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by Gone:

As I said before and will say again, all the same "fears" that apply to moving specific procedures to specialized clinics apply equally to a hospital setting as well. If one down here is lucky enough to still have a local hospital, it's not some shining modern facility like in Hamilton or Toronto (at least not until March anyway, the new hospital in St. Cats is outright impressive)

A "shining modern facility' is not a guarantee of infection control. Peterborough Regional Health Centre is only 4 years old but is run by a arrogant prick dismissive of most of the lower level staff including housekeeping and cleaning. I don't see them being too enthusiastic about doing a good job under his abysmal stewardship.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by Gone:

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

It's a shame. A nice new facility but underfunded from the start then they bring in a hatchet man to turn around the faux deficit and the place goes to shit.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Same thing happened in Niagara, except the backlash was so intense that the government turfed the CEO only to appoint the CEO of St. Joe's in Hamilton as "interim supervisor" which became permanent supervisor a few months ago.

How that man can realistically run two of the largest health systems in the entire country is beyond me.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

Premium Member

don't worry...mismanagement isn't exclusive to your regions...plenty of it here too.

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy to peterboro

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to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by Gone:

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

It's a shame. A nice new facility but underfunded from the start then they bring in a hatchet man to turn around the faux deficit and the place goes to shit.

Sounds like Peterborough and Sudbury have a lot in common...we waited 10+ years and stopped construction just short of the goal due to deficits and whatnot....we have a "new" tower...along with the old towers...and no parking...and have more problems than ever...

I don't know if this would be better, I know some oral surgeries are done in surgeon's offices and they are covered by OHIP....
Things like wisdom teeth removal I think are covered by OHIP?...If they're medically neccessary of course...

But anywho...nothing beats our former CEO, look up "Vicki Kaminski"...now there's a laugh, talk about taxpayers picking up the whole cost of her MBA?....

Unfortunately she's Eastern Health in NF's problem now ....

I maintain that you're going to get incompetence regardless of who is at the helm...and there will be money gouging...even at hospitals....

I would say for infection control, provided everything is sterilized things should be better....

I won't be more scared than I was in 1999, had Jaw Surgery at Toronto Western Hospital I believe....had the surgery Wednesday morning and was discharged Friday morning because he said "there are sick people here"....and the man next door to me in my semi-private room was coughing up blood and it was on his stuff, and on the floor....it was everywhere....

...I figure if its a clinic at least you can't have people stuffed in there like sardines....for routine stuff anyways...I'm not against it...so long as there is some accountability and health inspectors are in regularly to check the facilities (surprise/weekly inspections, etc).

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to urbanriot

Premium Member

to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

said by Gone:

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

Thank you. I was reading this thread for the first time prepared to post a response into elwoodblues insinuation that specialized clinics will hire low wage earners when the 'official' medical industry does the same.

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...

Do they?
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to peterboro

Premium Member

to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by donoreo:

My first camera up the bum was at a clinic, that was 8 years ago.

A private clinic and a few hot nurses for the anal adventures of donereo as a lucrative venture and a business model is formed. As a bonus think of all the lives it would save.

There have been an number of clinics like this in Toronto for years for colonoscopy procedures.

Kensington Clinic has been open for 5+ years going cataract/glaucoma procedures - and it is basically staffed by eye surgeons who also are @ Toronto Western, Mt. Sinai, and Toronto General hospitals.

There's at least one totally private eye surgery clinic in Toronto - in continuous operation (no pun intended) since the 1930's.

---------------

Part of the issue has to do with the cost of building and running OR's in hospitals - it's a huge capital expense, and they are subject to a wide variety of constraints.

However one of the biggest constraints on getting more patients through 'elective' or non-urgent surgery is simply that many OR's just don't run 24/7 because of staffing models - from numbers of doctors who don't want to be stuck on night shifts once they are no longer residents, to nurse & lab staff not wanting the graveyard shifts either.

Maybe what should be done is getting at least a couple of Level 1 hospitals in the Toronto and other large urban areas to be staffed at their weekday 8am-4pm levels 24/7x365 and push people through the surgical/radiation/etc... backlog that way. The capital cost component of their procedures drops dramatically that way.

However, I can see doing some things like *simple* arthroscopic knee meniscus repairs in a clinic setting, where procedures run under an hour. More complex and longer procedures like knee ligament reconstructions or transplants are really only hospital procedures due to the greater chances of things going wrong.
Expand your moderator at work

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot to elwoodblues

Premium Member

to elwoodblues

Re: Ontario to outsource some procedures to specialised clinics

said by elwoodblues:

said by urbanriot:

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...

Do they?

Do they ever.

It started in 2009 and now it's pretty much a standard amongst specialists. A doctor evaluates their charts, records their transcription into a voice recorder then emails or uploads the MP3's overseas and by morning they're sent back in .doc format.

Some investigations were done a few years back regarding privacy concerns but since the usage is so widespread and there hasn't yet been any known issues, all's been quiet on the government front for a few years now.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by urbanriot:

Some investigations were done a few years back regarding privacy concerns but since the usage is so widespread and there hasn't yet been any known issues, all's been quiet on the government front for a few years now.

If I found out my medical records were being disclosed to individuals not bound by the Personal Health Information Protection Act I would file a complaint with the IPC.

digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium Member
join:2000-07-15
GTA

digitalfutur to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

said by Gone:

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2 ··· spitals/

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.

If it's wrong, what is the correct assumption?

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by digitalfutur:

If it's wrong, what is the correct assumption?

There are other assumptions. The assumption that private clinics are better than hospitals is not accurate. Both have serious infection problems. Hospitals, however, have a better ability to deal with it than smaller clinics. There are also no outcome measures for private clinics, as there are for hospitals. Thus any assumption of "better" is unproved.