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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone

Re: Ontario to outsource some procedures to specialised clinics

said by Gone:

Moving things like colonoscopies and other day procedures that would otherwise be performed in a hospital to a specialized clinic sort of makes sense. They're so routine that it doesn't make sense to tie up hospital resources with them.

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Considering that the one particular example in question was for cosmetic surgery, I think it's safe to assume that these are for-profit clinics. This is not the model being proposed by Matthews.


lugnut

@communications.com
How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

Considering that we have mice running around in the halls of GNGH, I'll take my chances thanks.


lugnut

@communications.com
said by Gone:

said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

Considering that we have mice running around in the halls of GNGH, I'll take my chances thanks.

I'd much rather risk the remote possibility of contracting Hantavirus from hospital food than the very real possibility of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·voip.ms
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to lugnut
said by lugnut :

How soon do we all forget the unsanitary colonoscopy scare from last year in this country?

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st···ion.html

»www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/201···nts.html

Offloading some procedures like endoscopies simply begs for sloppy sanitary procedures and continues to undermine the quality of health care we are getting for our money in this country.

That was in the same building as the clinic I went to. Would have been less scary if they had said right away which clinic it was. They first released something like "patients who went to some clinic in Ottawa may have been infected..." They got the whole city panicking for a couple of days before they released the details.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to lugnut
said by lugnut :

I'd much rather risk the remote possibility of contracting Hantavirus from hospital food than the very real possibility of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope.

The chance of contracting HIV or Hep C from a dirty endoscope is no more "very real" than the aforementioned chance of contracting hanta.

Then there was all that C.Dif and MRSA when I was on the third floor of St. Cats General this past September. Stool inspections every time you take a shit are a wonderful thing.

The very real point here is that it doesn't matter where you go for a medical procedure, be it a hospital or a clinic, if there are issues with the sanitary conditions you could get sick. Or not.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Actually, using small, private clinics for day surgery is a serious problem.

Considering that the one particular example in question was for cosmetic surgery, I think it's safe to assume that these are for-profit clinics. This is not the model being proposed by Matthews.

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/dirtyhospitals/


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Gone:

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

Thank you. I was reading this thread for the first time prepared to post a response into elwoodblues insinuation that specialized clinics will hire low wage earners when the 'official' medical industry does the same.

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/dirtyhospitals/

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.

If it's not for profit I would suspect that the motivation is access to care rather than cost savings.

As I said before and will say again, all the same "fears" that apply to moving specific procedures to specialized clinics apply equally to a hospital setting as well. If one down here is lucky enough to still have a local hospital, it's not some shining modern facility like in Hamilton or Toronto (at least not until March anyway, the new hospital in St. Cats is outright impressive)

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by Gone:

As I said before and will say again, all the same "fears" that apply to moving specific procedures to specialized clinics apply equally to a hospital setting as well. If one down here is lucky enough to still have a local hospital, it's not some shining modern facility like in Hamilton or Toronto (at least not until March anyway, the new hospital in St. Cats is outright impressive)

A "shining modern facility' is not a guarantee of infection control. Peterborough Regional Health Centre is only 4 years old but is run by a arrogant prick dismissive of most of the lower level staff including housekeeping and cleaning. I don't see them being too enthusiastic about doing a good job under his abysmal stewardship.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by Gone:

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

It's a shame. A nice new facility but underfunded from the start then they bring in a hatchet man to turn around the faux deficit and the place goes to shit.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Same thing happened in Niagara, except the backlash was so intense that the government turfed the CEO only to appoint the CEO of St. Joe's in Hamilton as "interim supervisor" which became permanent supervisor a few months ago.

How that man can realistically run two of the largest health systems in the entire country is beyond me.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
don't worry...mismanagement isn't exclusive to your regions...plenty of it here too.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by Gone:

It's not a guarantee, but it can help so long as you have competent people running the facility. Unfortunately as your example shows that is not always the case.

It's a shame. A nice new facility but underfunded from the start then they bring in a hatchet man to turn around the faux deficit and the place goes to shit.

Sounds like Peterborough and Sudbury have a lot in common...we waited 10+ years and stopped construction just short of the goal due to deficits and whatnot....we have a "new" tower...along with the old towers...and no parking...and have more problems than ever...

I don't know if this would be better, I know some oral surgeries are done in surgeon's offices and they are covered by OHIP....
Things like wisdom teeth removal I think are covered by OHIP?...If they're medically neccessary of course...

But anywho...nothing beats our former CEO, look up "Vicki Kaminski"...now there's a laugh, talk about taxpayers picking up the whole cost of her MBA?....

Unfortunately she's Eastern Health in NF's problem now ....

I maintain that you're going to get incompetence regardless of who is at the helm...and there will be money gouging...even at hospitals....

I would say for infection control, provided everything is sterilized things should be better....

I won't be more scared than I was in 1999, had Jaw Surgery at Toronto Western Hospital I believe....had the surgery Wednesday morning and was discharged Friday morning because he said "there are sick people here"....and the man next door to me in my semi-private room was coughing up blood and it was on his stuff, and on the floor....it was everywhere....

...I figure if its a clinic at least you can't have people stuffed in there like sardines....for routine stuff anyways...I'm not against it...so long as there is some accountability and health inspectors are in regularly to check the facilities (surprise/weekly inspections, etc).


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

said by Gone:

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

Thank you. I was reading this thread for the first time prepared to post a response into elwoodblues insinuation that specialized clinics will hire low wage earners when the 'official' medical industry does the same.

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...

Do they?
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......
Expand your moderator at work


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to elwoodblues

Re: Ontario to outsource some procedures to specialised clinics

said by elwoodblues:

said by urbanriot:

I wonder if he even knows how many doctors outsource their transcriptions to India...

Do they?

Do they ever.

It started in 2009 and now it's pretty much a standard amongst specialists. A doctor evaluates their charts, records their transcription into a voice recorder then emails or uploads the MP3's overseas and by morning they're sent back in .doc format.

Some investigations were done a few years back regarding privacy concerns but since the usage is so widespread and there hasn't yet been any known issues, all's been quiet on the government front for a few years now.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by urbanriot:

Some investigations were done a few years back regarding privacy concerns but since the usage is so widespread and there hasn't yet been any known issues, all's been quiet on the government front for a few years now.

If I found out my medical records were being disclosed to individuals not bound by the Personal Health Information Protection Act I would file a complaint with the IPC.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by Gone:

said by DKS:

The "for profit" plastic surgery clinics also server OHIP clients. We have one here in this city.

So what? When has the payer ever been an issue?

One should also remember that filth is not limited to clinics. Not by a long shot.

»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/dirtyhospitals/

But the assumption that this is a) cost effective and b) better is wrong.

If it's wrong, what is the correct assumption?
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by digitalfutur:

If it's wrong, what is the correct assumption?

There are other assumptions. The assumption that private clinics are better than hospitals is not accurate. Both have serious infection problems. Hospitals, however, have a better ability to deal with it than smaller clinics. There are also no outcome measures for private clinics, as there are for hospitals. Thus any assumption of "better" is unproved.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.