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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Weather Channel is worse than politicians...

Not only have they started this goofy storm naming and their torcon index, now they are using the stormcon index.

What a bunch of retards. They really need to go away!


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
I agree that naming winter storms is a bit off, but if you've paid any reasonable amount of attention to the TOR:CON index, you'd see it's often quite accurate and useful for warning people about the potential for dangerous weather conditions. Reading up just now about the STORM:CON, I don't see anything bad about that either. There are a lot of people who don't understand all the terms involved with watches, warning, and advisories for both severe summer and winter weather. If those two products make any person pay more attention and take action to keep themselves and their families safe during dangerous weather, then they're worth it.

For people who aren't weather nerds, I can see it being very beneficial. I tend to pay more attention personally to the Storm Prediction Center's Severe Weather Outlook when it comes to tornadoes, but that's not something the average person would even stumble onto. The average person, however, might watch the Weather Channel or visit their website and see that. You're really opposed to providing people with easy-to-understand information about the potential for dangerous or deadly weather?

Ask the people in the thick of this if they didn't appreciate having a head's up on this day:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_25%E···outbreak
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
What the Weather Channel folks are doing equate to me them not following the standards. Imagine if every company out there called the same item by a different name. No one would ever know what to ask for when going to the parts counter.

Now, when the National Weather Service is the one in this country that sets the standards, and rogue companies like the Weather Channel start their own lingo, it is only going to cause confusion. There needs to be a governing body to set forecast and forecast reporting standards that everyone follows. Right now, that is the NWS and the FOR PROFIT Weather Channel is going rogue.

So you are saying that the NWS gave no warning to those people or that the NWS was confusing? I somehow doubt it. Now imagine the confusion when one neighbor talks to the other, one watches the Weather Channel and the other follows the NWS, and the one who watches the Weather Channel starts talking about Iago and the other, instead of getting ready for the snowstorm predicted by the NWS, runs off to board up his windows because he thinks a hurricane is coming as the NWS does not name winter storms.

All the Weather Channel is doing is going out on their own and causing confusion. What they should be doing is talking to the NWS and other agencies and recommending changes and working as a whole to make things better. But they cannot and do not want to seem to do that so they can sell better ratings and hype.


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
said by ropeguru:

What the Weather Channel folks are doing equate to me them not following the standards. Imagine if every company out there called the same item by a different name. No one would ever know what to ask for when going to the parts counter.

Now, when the National Weather Service is the one in this country that sets the standards, and rogue companies like the Weather Channel start their own lingo, it is only going to cause confusion. There needs to be a governing body to set forecast and forecast reporting standards that everyone follows. Right now, that is the NWS and the FOR PROFIT Weather Channel is going rogue.

So you are saying that the NWS gave no warning to those people or that the NWS was confusing? I somehow doubt it. Now imagine the confusion when one neighbor talks to the other, one watches the Weather Channel and the other follows the NWS, and the one who watches the Weather Channel starts talking about Iago and the other, instead of getting ready for the snowstorm predicted by the NWS, runs off to board up his windows because he thinks a hurricane is coming as the NWS does not name winter storms.

All the Weather Channel is doing is going out on their own and causing confusion. What they should be doing is talking to the NWS and other agencies and recommending changes and working as a whole to make things better. But they cannot and do not want to seem to do that so they can sell better ratings and hype.

How many people do you know that actually *read* the National Weather Service website forecasts for their region in detail - unless they're weather nerds, already inclined to be interested in weather, they won't. I'm not saying that the National Weather Service didn't provide information the days I linked, or that the Storm Prediction Center didn't - but their products aren't geared at the average user who flips on the TV in the morning to check the forecast. Even just the generic forecast page on a day with a high threat for severe weather, the wording is at best, at least in my area, is something along the lines of "Severe thunderstorms likely" - that's incredibly generic. You have to get into the zone forecasts, the hazardous weather and short-term discussions, and the Storm Prediction Center's outlook discussions in order to figure out what that means for your area.

Go read this, and tell me if the text on the bottom of this page would make perfect sense to the average person who just turns on the local news or Weather Channel to see whether it's going to rain that day:

»www.spc.noaa.gov/products/outloo···100.html

Local news might cover it in some detail, but in my experience they still don't provide the level of "alert" that something like the TOR:CON can in advance of the event. My experience with local news is that they're great coverage while the event is occurring - but they're a bit light on information in the day or hours leading up to it. It's not like there's some actual National Weather Service TV channel that you can turn to.

Your example is ridiculous. Anyone who takes the time to go to the National Weather Service website and read their forecast is going to know that it's not a hurricane coming and would not be confused by their neighbor mentioning a named winter storm. In fact, I'm going to step out on a cliff here and argue that someone that informed is probably already aware of the Weather Channel naming storms and will also know exactly what they mean. People who take the time to go to the NWS site are already smart weather consumers. They're the people who already know the difference between a watch, warning, advisory, and know which detailed product links to click on on the NWS page to find out what's going to happen in their area.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to danawhitaker
said by danawhitaker:

For people who aren't weather nerds, I can see it being very beneficial. I tend to pay more attention personally to the Storm Prediction Center's Severe Weather Outlook when it comes to tornadoes, but that's not something the average person would even stumble onto.

Well unless they are voluntarily stupid...

Way up north knew what blizzards were without anyone telling me...

And conversely moving to Key West it is very important you know what hurricanes are. (Many newcomers here don't until hit by one.)

But since moving here the last thing but for general info is the WX Ch. The populous when NOAH was going to closed NWS KW down, mandated Cat 5 NWS station is two blocks down the street... talk about a local forecast. And the Navy takes things WX very seriously and literally too, another good source for raw data for anyone who understands WX.

But yeah in Bushwacked budget cut proposal (to pay for the tax cuts) a decade ago... they wanted to remote control NWS KW from Miami.... not sure congress ever saw such a near 75% population response of we may ignore what they tell us... but the LOCAL MANNED WX info to make that final decision is CRITAL the WX ch is BS, even then.

As well as to fishing and other commercial maritime interests, no way you are putting us on storm sure to fail remote control.

And it worked...now the new (2005) Cat 5 resistant station used to be in horrid quarters at the airport. The first time I have felt my tax dollars well spent.

And just two blocks away... they hold open houses once or twice a years, and sometimes just go up to chat when they aren't real storm busy.

Oh and the staff there then, and even the newcomers, are very grateful the Keys residents in real terms revolted and told congress the HELL you are taking NWS KW away... it the one really tangible benefit we get from our tax dollar and it IS CRITICAL.

Oh and BTW when the NHC radar was blown off their roof in (92) Andrew it was the long range KW radar they were getting their info from after that.

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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to danawhitaker
While there are a lot of folks that may not go to the NWS site, there are a lot that watch local news which are also NOT using the named winter storm convention. So my argument still stands as to the confusion.

It is the weather channel trying to take over like the bully and run everything. THEY are not the rule makers in this game and when it comes to people's safety THEY are the ones that are the issue.


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
Since when have they not.... 1992 Because of loss of data predicted Key West wiped off the map....

No Andrew was so compact that nothing but a stiff wind in the lower Keys...and wiped out Homestead, but not Miami or at all impacted but the very upper Keys.

You live around storms you better pay attention and to NOAA and direct NWS (for me 2 blocks up the street), also in KW Navy serious take on it all... Not the WX Ch.... that's just stupid entertainment? for those not affected.
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captnhook

join:2001-02-20
NY
reply to ropeguru
There's a reason my emergency weather radio gets NWS broadcasts and not The Weather Channel.
The NWS is the standard for weather information.
When TWC first began they had some credibility with their 24 hour broadcasting of forecasts, storm coverage and radar, but since they were acquired by NBC they became an entertainment station and all their credibility has been lost.
What ropeguru said is absolutely true.
You do NOT mess with nationalized standards otherwise you introduce confusion, misunderstanding and ultimately endanger peoples lives.


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
reply to ropeguru
You guys are really completely missing the point. There is a whole segment of the population who would completely ignore the weather and endanger their own lives if things like The Weather Channel and local news stations (I'm lumping the latter in because their coverage often seems spotty and arbitrary and they have a bunch of random names for things like their Doppler products as well) did not exist. Those people do not care enough about the weather to read or listen to National Weather Service forecasts or have radios. WE (those of us who pay attention to weather to that degree) are the ones who are not normal. Anyone who bothers to post in a weather forum already takes a larger-than-normal degree of interest in the weather. I stress again, *we* are the ones who are *not* normal.

I had the channel on for a good portion of the afternoon yesterday because, living in the Midwest, and not being impacted by the blizzard directly (or even indirectly), there's no real coverage of it around here. I didn't once hear them give out information that wasn't accurate. They were not being cavalier with their coverage. They were stressing to people what conditions they'd be encountering and not to put themselves in harm's way, including the coastal flood warnings, which seemed to be getting relatively ignored in other coverage I saw. I also heard them advising people to acquire weather radios so that they can get updated information from the NWS in the event that they lose power. Aside from giving the storm a name, they weren't giving out any information that didn't fall in line with what the National Weather Service was likely telling people. Now, if they were creating new measurement scales for wind and snow and rain, or ignoring the conventional National Weather Service categorizations for blizzards, hurricanes, tornado watches and warnings, severe thunderstorm watches and warnings, etc, I'd agree with you they're screwing with a "national standard". But they aren't ignoring those things. They're *adding* things that draw attention to the latter. Someone who hears there's a TOR:CON of X for their area will be more apt to pay attention when their local news station issues a tornado or severe thunderstorm watch. When there's a tornado watch issued by the National Weather Service, they carry that information, they explain what it means. They have *not* made up their own terms for these things, and they do not issue them on their own. The things that they have done are intended to draw people's attention to a storm a few days before it hits.

I won't dispute that since they were acquired by NBC certain aspects have gone downhill, and it's unfortunate how much junky reality-type programs are in their schedule. On the other hand, I suspect that the viability of a 24/7 forecast model was waning, and they probably had to adapt. When there's a major event, I've seen them preempt their reality programming in favor of covering what's going on. As a weather nut, I'm thrilled that there's even anything remotely mainstream when it comes to weather coverage.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


SoonerAl
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-23
Norman, OK
kudos:5
reply to ropeguru
TWC is calling this present Nor' Easter Nemo...


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to danawhitaker
What's important to me and my neighbors is that if there's a NWS tornado watch or warning, our SAME receiver will activate and nag us. It doesn't go off for a TOR:CON.

I and everyone else in my neighborhood knows to be on the alert if a NWS tornado watch is issued, or take cover if a warning is issued.

The TORCON thing adds nothing to the equation except confusion.

Description of TOR:CON values:

0 - near-zero chance of a tornado or severe thunderstorm nearby
2 - very low chance of a tornado nearby, but hail or strong wind gusts possible
4 - low chance of a tornado nearby, but hail and/or strong wind gusts possible
6 - moderate possibility of a tornado in the area of concern
8 - high probability of a tornado in the area of concern

Most lay people know what watches and warnings are, but I doubt many can recite the TOR:CON values.

I've been watching the Weather channel the past day or so, but just to see the videos and be glad it's 75 and sunny where I am.
--
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car.


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA

1 edit
said by EGeezer:

What's important to me and my neighbors is that if there's a NWS tornado watch or warning, our SAME receiver will activate and nag us. It doesn't go off for a TOR:CON.

I and everyone else in my neighborhood knows to be on the alert if a NWS tornado watch is issued, or take cover if a warning is issued.

The TORCON thing adds nothing to the equation except confusion.

Description of TOR:CON values:

0 - near-zero chance of a tornado or severe thunderstorm nearby
2 - very low chance of a tornado nearby, but hail or strong wind gusts possible
4 - low chance of a tornado nearby, but hail and/or strong wind gusts possible
6 - moderate possibility of a tornado in the area of concern
8 - high probability of a tornado in the area of concern

Most lay people know what watches and warnings are, but I doubt many can recite the TOR:CON values.

I've been watching the Weather channel the past day or so, but just to see the videos and be glad it's 75 and sunny where I am.

The TOR:CON is something they talk about in the days leading up to an approaching severe weather event. It's something you'll see when they're discussing the forecast for the next few days. If you want to, next time you hear one, check the Storm Prediction Center's probabilistic forecasts for severe weather potential. They line up almost perfectly. It seems to be highly based off that. What it does is give people a heads-up to maybe make sure they have batteries for their weather radio or know where it is in the first place.

A tornado watch, on the other hand, is issued a few hours in advance of a potential severe weather event, and the warning when such weather is imminent.

I don't see anyone here criticizing the Storm Prediction Center for issuing its severe weather outlooks. The TOR:CON is basically the SPC website for weather "dummies". I would never advise somebody to rely on the TOR:CON instead of getting a weather radio or paying attention to issued watches and warnings. Though I actually hate those radios because the beeps and voice used trigger anxiety in me. I have one in the event all my other sources fail, but I prefer in the event of really bad weather to first turn on local news sources for their live radar and storm tracking. I go batty without visual information.

Edit: In my experience, people really don't seem to know the difference between watches and warnings anyway. Seriously. They also lack awareness about which county they live in, which counties surround them and what directions those counties are, and what cities are nearby that they can use to determine how close something might be to them in the event a warning is issued. When I was in high school, a friend and I were out during a tornado warning, and we stopped to take shelter. The people there where whining about having their shopping interrupted, insisted it didn't look "that bad" out, and kept asking to be allowed to leave the mall. That was in 1998. I haven't seen much difference since then.


captnhook

join:2001-02-20
NY
reply to SoonerAl
said by SoonerAl:

TWC is calling this present Nor' Easter Nemo...

...and here I was all set on my couch with my popcorn thinking TWC was going to air the movie Nemo


Bink63
Namedrop THIS
Premium
join:2002-10-06
Everywhere
said by captnhook:

said by SoonerAl:

TWC is calling this present Nor' Easter Nemo...

...and here I was all set on my couch with my popcorn thinking TWC was going to air the movie Nemo

STOP stealing my Tweets!!!

Copyright infringement and all that...


--
Hopefully the Ministry Of Truth and Thought Police can sort this whole thing out.
»twitter.com/Bink63
»www.legacypcs.com
Frank Shoemaker would call this noise
GO Cubs GO!!!


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to ropeguru
In the spirit of things, we have had several named events in South Florida the last few days;

Foggy Morning Maria
Sun Event Sinead
Drizzle Donald
Partly Cloudy Pete
Breezy Bob
Choppy water Wanda

The DARK:CON is a now 10 for nighttime Nancy.

Full 24 hour coverage on these events at TWC. Look, here comes Jim Cantori in Ray-Bans, Tommy Bahama shirt, baggy Bermuda shorts and flip-flops! Wow, look at that sunburn ... ow, ow, ow..
--
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car.

gellenb

join:2002-06-12
Mineral Point, PA
What would be nice is if you could turn the Weather Channel on at any time, and get real weather information. Ever since NBC got in there, it's all advertising and programs.


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
said by gellenb:

What would be nice is if you could turn the Weather Channel on at any time, and get real weather information. Ever since NBC got in there, it's all advertising and programs.

I actually have it on right now. The show that's supposed to be on (Lifeguards, according to my digital cable guide) has been preempted for Weather Center Live and Local on the 8s. Along the bottom of the screen is a constant stream of my local area's forecast/temperature/current conditions.

Some of your critiques are valid, but complaining that there's no real weather information on there when it's literally on right now is a bit ridiculous.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


SoonerAl
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-23
Norman, OK
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Well back in the "Good Old Days" the Weather Channel truly did have constant 24/7 weather forecasts, current conditions, etc segments and not the entertainment segments...

IMHO its sad to see that go away....

I guess I am just another OOF ('Official Old Fart') that remembers that...


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
said by SoonerAl:

Well back in the "Good Old Days" the Weather Channel truly did have constant 24/7 weather forecasts, current conditions, etc segments and not the entertainment segments...

IMHO its sad to see that go away....

I guess I am just another OOF ('Official Old Fart') that remembers that...

Was there ever a time they didn't have any commercials though? I can't recall that back in the mid-90s, but I was only in junior high/early high school then so I may just be glossing over details in my head. I don't like any of their "reality shows" but at the same time, when there's literally nothing going on weather-wise of interest anywhere in the U.S., I'd assume their viewership would tank and that probably happens often enough that someone told them to shake up their lineup. This afternoon was a pretty good example of the "good old days" with the exception of too many commercials. But too many commercials is par for the course for any cable channel except premium stuff like HBO.

I follow major weather events, and it's very rare that when something pretty big is going on (severe weather outbreak, hurricane, snowstorm, etc), they don't break out of their new "reality show" format and go to the more traditional format. I think that's why I don't understand some of the vitriol here. Some of the complaints are obviously coming from people who haven't watched the channel in years and are just making assumptions. The poster above me who was complaining today clearly hadn't even turned the channel on to see what was on. They had live reporters in various places, they were covering the snowstorm, they had some nice segments on the weather in Iowa in their Weather Center Live coverage. I guess maybe I'm slightly not enough of a weather nerd in that when nothing is interesting is going on anywhere, I'm not too interested in the current conditions and forecasts. Calm and sunny gets kinda boring after a while. I keep my eye on the NWS and SPC stuff and then start tuning in when I know interesting stuff's about to start happening.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru
I enjoyed TWC back when it was all weather, all the time. I stopped watching when the 'entertainment' programming started.

I sign in to my local Skywarn net when there's something going on in my area, because the NWS has to get their real-time info from somewhere so that TWC can steal it use it for free.


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
reply to SoonerAl
said by SoonerAl:

Well back in the "Good Old Days" the Weather Channel truly did have constant 24/7 weather forecasts, current conditions, etc segments and not the entertainment segments...

IMHO its sad to see that go away....

I guess I am just another OOF ('Official Old Fart') that remembers that...

Usually when there is significant weather going on that stuff is all preempted...have a few I have tried to record and just end up with just breaking weather coverage. Also in those shows they still do the local weather on the 8's.
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marti
Color outside the lines
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-14
Houston, TX
kudos:5
reply to ropeguru
Weather Channel is like CNN reruns and crap unless something important happens. I rarely watch Weather Channel anymore.
--
Team Discovery