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jasontaylor

join:2010-11-17
Kensington, MD
reply to MURICA

Re: [HD] Is Verizon lying about HD?

"They've got some HD rarities on that lineup like 3net, the C-SPANs, NASA, and Sprout because they have unlimited space."

This thread is making me more and more upset at vz. I used to work at nasa. The point, at least for my area, was to get *good* pictures of stuff in space using space telescopes. Do analysis of pics, etc. And now, it's given back to the masses in low def? It's a little ironic. Ticks me off. How's pizza in kansas?


kennedyspace

@verizon.net
low def? what is that? i know about standard def and high def. can anyone get jobs at nasa? even if you have no technical skills?

said by jasontaylor:

"They've got some HD rarities on that lineup like 3net, the C-SPANs, NASA, and Sprout because they have unlimited space."

This thread is making me more and more upset at vz. I used to work at nasa. The point, at least for my area, was to get *good* pictures of stuff in space using space telescopes. Do analysis of pics, etc. And now, it's given back to the masses in low def? It's a little ironic. Ticks me off. How's pizza in kansas?



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17
reply to jasontaylor
said by jasontaylor:

Do analysis of pics, etc. And now, it's given back to the masses in low def? It's a little ironic.

Many of the NASA pics I can download off their website are well above HD resolution of 1080x1920... so HD wouldn't do it justice.

NASA is nice enough to stream all of their channels (they have more than one) content and more from their website, not much of a need for a dedicated TV channel much less three.

It's ala carte IPTV and accessible from any internet provider for free.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

MURICA

join:2013-01-03
Internet streaming video really isn't up to par with a proper HDTV feed.

said by ITALIAN926:

Are you joking? Verizon has been doing FTTP for almost ten years, and they need to ask Google for advice? Lets be serious here.

Google has the luxury of using tech and infrastructure a decade more advanced. Big deal to what theyre doing in KC

Oh, and lets not forget that Google has like 200 TV subscribers. LOL .. tips.

Clearly, they do need Google's advice. Verizon's speeds are pretty sad for a fiber product. Every other fiber to the home service around the developed world was doing symmetrical 100 Mbps by the mid-2000s; now the majority of FTTH projects are able to deliver symmetrical 1 Gbps. 1 Gbps fiber like Google Fiber is common in Japan & South Korea.

Verizon FiOS has been a consistently subpar fiber product when compared to the fiber projects launched by other companies and foreign governments.

Verizon's TV service needs a complete overhaul because it just isn't up to snuff. It's not taking advantage of fiber's capacity. Duplicating all the limitations of copper cable over fiber optic wire is a sad state of affairs here in the year 2013.

I like FiOS. It's definitely ahead of the rest of its American competition. But it is still under-performing due to mismanagement on Verizon's part.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Wow, you should apply for CEO, and hop in your time machine while youre at it.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to MURICA
said by MURICA:

Google Fiber is an example of doing it right.

Doing it right?

Guess U never heard of sports channels that 50% of viewers appreciate....
Expand your moderator at work

batsona
Maryland

join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Verizon FiOS
reply to jasontaylor

Re: [HD] Is Verizon lying about HD?

Sooo.. The limitation here is the RG6 coax connecting to the STB, where VZ is only utilizing 860Mhz (~810 usable) correct? Mathematically, that does limit the number of QAMs, as was seen in an earlier post.

Any Dish implementation uses RG6, and the signals come off that dish somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500Mhz, right? Plus... Any VZ installer makes sure that the coax cabling has good integrity anyway.. why not allow the use of ~1.5Ghz of space, instead of the current 860Mhz on that coax?

One reason is that they might not trust the integrity of that cabling, since attenuation increases with the higher frequency...
Expand your moderator at work


lfisk

@verizon.net
reply to DrDrew

Re: [HD] Is Verizon lying about HD?

said by DrDrew:

said by jasontaylor:

Do analysis of pics, etc. And now, it's given back to the masses in low def? It's a little ironic.

Many of the NASA pics I can download off their website are well above HD resolution of 1080x1920... so HD wouldn't do it justice.

NASA is nice enough to stream all of their channels (they have more than one) content and more from their website, not much of a need for a dedicated TV channel much less three.

It's ala carte IPTV and accessible from any internet provider for free.

thanks dr drew for the nasa info. you know about stuff on their website and former employees don't. how ironic. how's the pizza in houston?

jasontaylor

join:2010-11-17
Kensington, MD
reply to batsona
"why not allow the use of ~1.5Ghz of space, instead of the current 860Mhz on that coax?"

If there are 4 or more 4 tvs + 1 router, the signal might not be strong enough. Splitters aren't perfect, and they get worse above 1 ghz. A few db here, a few db there, and pretty soon, no signal. Each splitter halves signal strength, which is 3db. However, below 1ghz you can have 8 tvs.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
From Motorola...
»www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Vid···inal.pdf

For the newer 7232...

Video QAM 54 - 860Mhz
IP 1125Mhz - 1525

The old 2500 IP is 1125Mhz - 1425

I thought Moca ran between 860 and 1000?


Techygeek

@jillyred.net
reply to jasontaylor
Mister Taylor the reasons you give for verizon not going above 1ghz are incorrect. First of all when verizon launched fios, and even today there are no STB ,manufacturers making boxes with tuners above 860mhz. No cable company has boxes tuning above 860mhz. Only tunjng above 860mhz on fios boxes is moca (or mocha as u call it) which is in the 1.1ghz range. Fios signal strength out of the ONT can easily handle 8 sets in most situations and an amp is installed if signal strength is not enough for bigmhomes with long runs. Splitter loss is 3.5th not 3db and is closer to 4 or more DB on high ehd of the spectrum.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

I thought Moca ran between 860 and 1000?

MOCA WAN is 1000 Mhz (975-1025).
MOCA LAN is 1150 Mhz (1125-1175).
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


cough23

@verizon.net
reply to MURICA
said by MURICA:

I like FiOS. It's definitely ahead of the rest of its American competition. But it is still under-performing due to mismanagement on Verizon's part.

a business just needs to be ahead of its competition and profitable. is it better than most yes. does it have room for improvement? yes. but key is that its better than comcast and time warner and cablevision so stop complaining.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to More Fiber
So, the majority of splitters in the real world, and the ones primarily installed by Verizon are rated 5-1000Mhz, but the MOCA LAN works on 1150Mhz, interesting to know that the splitters will pass that.

JackBauer

join:2006-08-24
Schenectady, NY

1 recommendation

reply to MURICA
said by MURICA:

I like FiOS. It's definitely ahead of the rest of its American competition. But it is still under-performing due to mismanagement on Verizon's part.

Mismanagement, I don't think that's the right word here.

They have to be practical in implementation.

I think everyone would agree their holy grail is IPTV, but it takes time to get there - they do not have infinite resources. Google does, especially when they are cherry picking just a handful of areas to drive competition.

VZ, even though FIOS is not across their whole footprint, has to be practiced in their funding of the product. It is NOT making them the ROI that investments in wireless is making... And if they are not practiced, their (larger) shareholders will exercise their rights to be heard and complain about the comparably poor ROI and ROE.

VZ was very brave for offering FIOS and should be congratulated... No, actually they should be celebrated for continuing to invest in the product, and doing so in a smart way, even as wireless technologies are driving capabilities and profits that far exceed what was expected when FIOS was unveiled.


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to jasontaylor
MURICA doesn't seem to get the concept of ROI, Return on Investment.


PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to JackBauer
said by JackBauer:

VZ was very brave for offering FIOS and should be congratulated... No, actually they should be celebrated for continuing to invest in the product, and doing so in a smart way, even as wireless technologies are driving capabilities and profits that far exceed what was expected when FIOS was unveiled.

Not just that but FIOS offers a full featured product set that many of my friends love and they find it surpasses the value and offerings of their local cable company.

Would I love 1 gig symmetrical speeds for $20 a month? Of course -- but that doesn't make it practical. The current packages are a good mix of price and performance. As needs change, the network and packages will evolve with it.
--
1/22/2012 Delegate Count
Newt 25 | Romney 14 | Ron Paul 10 | Santorum 8

MURICA

join:2013-01-03
reply to cough23
said by cough23 :

said by MURICA:

I like FiOS. It's definitely ahead of the rest of its American competition. But it is still under-performing due to mismanagement on Verizon's part.

a business just needs to be ahead of its competition and profitable. is it better than most yes. does it have room for improvement? yes. but key is that its better than comcast and time warner and cablevision so stop complaining.

Except... it's not. Verizon FiOS is not ahead of the competition, at least, not in every sector. Verizon FiOS's HD channel lineup is utterly pathetic compared to Time Warner's.

And Verizon has let their FiOS Internet speeds stagnate so much that Comcast is now able to match their highest speed tier on the download side. That's just sad. Copper cable outdoing fiber optics in ANY category - is not something that should be happening.

said by JackBauer:

I think everyone would agree their holy grail is IPTV, but it takes time to get there - they do not have infinite resources. Google does, especially when they are cherry picking just a handful of areas to drive competition.

Why is it that AT&T was able to bust out IPTV with ease on their shitty U-verse project? Why is it that every local municipal fiber project like Chattanooga's EPB has an all-IPTV system but a multi-billion dollar corporation like Verizon is struggling so much to accomplish it?


landminer

@verizon.net
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

So, the majority of splitters in the real world, and the ones primarily installed by Verizon are rated 5-1000Mhz, but the MOCA LAN works on 1150Mhz, interesting to know that the splitters will pass that.

verizons plan from the beginning was to use as much installed in home wiring as possible to cut down on installation cost, labor, and inconvenience to customer. that included the widely installed base of coax & 1000mhz splitters. those splitters are rated and guaranteed for 1000mhz but pass frequencies much higher. there is not a hard stop band @ 1000mhz however there is roll off which means more loss as you go higher above 1000mhz. MOCA was designed specifically with this in mind.

knarf829

join:2007-06-02
kudos:1
reply to MURICA
said by MURICA:

Why is it that AT&T was able to bust out IPTV with ease on their shitty U-verse project?

I think the question and answer are both in the same sentence there. Was it really "busted out" with "ease" if it turned out "shitty?"

Verizon didn't want to release a "shitty" product. They wanted wide release of a product that could quickly be adopted by a wide range of users that they had some chance of making money on.

JackBauer

join:2006-08-24
Schenectady, NY
reply to Greg2600
said by Greg2600:

MURICA doesn't seem to get the concept of ROI, Return on Investment.

There are a lot of idealists out there...

It explains a lot that is happening in this country right now. A large portion of the electorate are looking at things as to how they should be as opposed to what is reasonably possible.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to MURICA
quote:
And Verizon has let their FiOS Internet speeds stagnate so much that Comcast is now able to match their highest speed tier on the download side. That's just sad. Copper cable outdoing fiber optics in ANY category - is not something that should be happening.

WRONG, Verizon has a 300Mbps speed, Comcast (or any cable co) DOES NOT over Coax. Guess what? Comcast 300Mbps is being offered over FIBER, and involves a $500 install fee, and is not available everywhere. Pay attention to the headlines man.
Expand your moderator at work


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: [HD] Is Verizon lying about HD?

said by ITALIAN926:

MOCA LAN works on 1150Mhz, interesting to know that the splitters will pass that.

Splitters don't stop passing higher frequencies just because they're only rated to a certain frequency. It just that the attenuation is higher above that frequency.

A 5-1000Mhz splitter is typically rated by the manufacturer to pass 5-1000Mhz with only 3.5db of loss. Loss as 1150Mhz might be 3.9db. Not within spec, but tolerable for MOCA. MOCA claims to be usable up to 50db of loss. I'm skeptical of that number, but keep in mind that MOCA must pass through every splitter between every endpoint on the coax network and those losses are cumulative (including losses on each of the coax segments).
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17

3 edits
reply to batsona
said by batsona:

Sooo.. The limitation here is the RG6 coax connecting to the STB, where VZ is only utilizing 860Mhz (~810 usable) correct?

No coax isn't the limitation.

The limitation is trying to broadcast all the channels at the same time even if no one is watching them. Why fill the pipe with 400 channels when only 5 different ones are being watched in the home at any one time?

If Verizon switched to IPTV, like Google or AT&T, they have enough bandwidth for all the channels. Their equipment can handle it.

Coax can handle 5 Gbps of data using QAMs. HD channels at mpeg2 are 12-14 Mbps each. Google couldn't even handle 1/4 of the channels FIOS does if they broadcast them like FIOS. AT&T couldn't even handle the data of 1 QAM (38 Mbps) to every house.

And if you don't think FIOS is looking at IPTV what do you think TV Everywhere is?
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.