Topic 'Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???' in forum 'Console/Handheld games' - dslreports.com

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 02 Mar 2013 21:53:37 EDT

C0deZer0 posted : The RDRAM issue with the n64 wasn't that bad. What was the big fail was the fact that Nintendo designed a GPU with so much support in hardware effects - well beyond any of its competition back then - and then paired it up with an embarrassingly small amount of texture memory... 4KB... which would be halved effectively if any mipmapping was done. This is why many n64 games usually suffered in the textures department.

It took the makers of Rogue Squadron to find a neat form of trickery in the form of allocating pointers in that texture RAM in order to get around that limit... but as expected, that's where the RAM expansion pak would come in handy, and in the case of Perfect Dark, be practically required to play the game properly.

The Saturn also was meant to be a 2D Monster, and as a result had rather bass ackwards 3D capabilities, and simply didn't support the kind of things that the PlayStation even could. In a bit of "WTF"ery, the Saturn actually defined polygons as squares - which no other chip before or since has done. That doesn't mean that 3D Games on the Saturn hardware couldn't look great, but it did lead to some screwed up visuals on any multiplatform games that didn't account for this.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 02 Mar 2013 15:19:43 EDT

sk1939 posted :

said by Alpha Phoenix:

said by sk1939:

said by comp:

I would imagine they will get the cooling right. They know the huge missteps MS made with the 360 and wont want to duplicate that

You would hope at least. Nintendo didn't learn from Sega's mistakes back in the day.

How you figure?

Well for one the N64 used RDRAM, at the time, and it came with a very high access latency, and this causing grief for the game developers because of limited hardware performance. It also came with a limited amount of RAM overall, necessitating the memory expansion packs.

Sega previously had also had significant hardware issues with the Saturn. The0 Saturn had impressive hardware at the time of its release, but its design, with two CPUs and six other processors, made harnessing this power extremely difficult for developers used to conventional programming. The biggest disadvantage was that both processors shared the same bus and were unable to access the memory registers at the same time. As a result, only one processor could utilize system memory at a time, and the 4 KB of cache memory in each CPU was critical to maintaining performance. In general, very careful division of processing, in addition to the already-challenging task of parallelizing the code, was required to get the most out of the Saturn.

Finally, many of the ancillary chips in the system were "off the shelf" components, increasing the complexity of the system because the components were not specifically designed to work together, which is my fear about the PS4.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 02 Mar 2013 12:36:32 EDT

Alpha Phoenix posted :

said by sk1939:

said by comp:

I would imagine they will get the cooling right. They know the huge missteps MS made with the 360 and wont want to duplicate that

You would hope at least. Nintendo didn't learn from Sega's mistakes back in the day.

How you figure?
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 02 Mar 2013 07:48:12 EDT

lgamer posted : I think realized spending the amount of money they spent developing Cell was a waste of time and money and caused the PS3 to be way overpriced ! Hopefully with the PS4 they get it right !

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:03:54 EDT

sk1939 posted :

said by comp:

I would imagine they will get the cooling right. They know the huge missteps MS made with the 360 and wont want to duplicate that

You would hope at least. Nintendo didn't learn from Sega's mistakes back in the day.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:46:54 EDT

comp posted : I would imagine they will get the cooling right. They know the huge missteps MS made with the 360 and wont want to duplicate that

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:46:37 EDT

me1212 posted : They probably didn't show it so they can have something for E3. Honestly I doubt they are gonna have an adequate cooling system for the first run of ps4, their more likely to cheap out on us and just see it if is needed or not before they actually spend the extra money to do it right.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:57:34 EDT

Woody79_00 posted : I agree with me1212, i am actually interested to see how exactly Sony is going to pull off this cooling. I would think the smart money is to wait on the 2nd revision of the console.

I love APU's, they are a good niche for decent cpu +gpu for most office tasks at a reasonable cost.

I built a rig about 6 months ago based on an AMD Athlon II x4 651k Black Edition. AMD released this unlocked processor based on socket FM1 with very little fan fare. It is an Illano with the ondie graphics neutered with a laser pretty much. At the time, the processor was on sale for 59.99 with a $20 mail in rebate. so i got an unlocked processor for about 40 bucks.

So i paired it with a Biostar Board, an Hd 7850, and a cooler master case with 4 120 MM fans and a cheap Artic Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2.

the whole system cost me less then 400 bucks. I have the CPU overclocked by 400 Mhz at 3.4 GHz, The HD 7850 OC from the 860 stock to 1000 Mhz, and the memory at 1275. I could go farther on these OC if i wanted to, but right now i just simply don't need to.

So for 347 bucks, I got a rig that can play most games on high Settings for less then what this new PS4 will cost. I am only gaming at 1600 x 900 Resolution (HD + single monitor)

I got a steal on this rig for the cost at the time, but it also has adequate cooling which is important for AMD chips. I do play games, but i don't have the need to feel i need to max everything out. Intel is faster this generation, but at my resolution and the budjet i was on, this system works fine.

in fact, in some cases the Athlon II x4 651 K out performs the Intel I3-2120 which was more expensive at the time, and i was on a tight budget.

»www.techsnyper.com/amd-athlon-ii···-review/

I know Socket FM1 is a dead end socket, but thats fine for what little i paid for it, in 2 years I will have gotten my moneys worth and can upgrade accordingly....but I can play skyrim at 55-60 FPS solid on Ultra with 4x MSSA, 16x AA, and the high Resolution pack...works for me....Batman AA and AC plays around 45-50, and Crysis 1 and 2 play acceptable on decent settings thats good enough for me :)

I agree with you though, I actually hope Sony does come out with a good cooling solution for this console...I wonder if maybe thats why they didn't show the physical box?

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:37:17 EDT

me1212 posted : You bring up a good point, ese. Sure on the normal amd cpus the stock cooler is enough to keep it <61C at load but that stock cooler doesn't have to cool a gpu too just 4-8 cores that wont be at gaming levels of use whenever its on. Where as sony needs a solution that will cool the full apu to keep it, I'd say, no more than 60C under gaming load. Heck I wouldn't even use a stock cooler on a desktop apu, at least a hyper t3x is what I would use personally. Yeah I suppose one could argue its technically a netbook apu they are using those things are made to run cool, but they weren't made to run games like sony is going to use them for.

Don't get me wrong I like apus, and think they are a neat concept and fill a gap for people who need a decent cpu and moderate gpu at a decent cost. However they need good cooling, and I've seen every console made since the NES with my own eyes none of them had top notch cooling. I've seen and had consoles overheat even with a normal cpu that can withstand higher temps, I am legit worried about how the ps4 will handle that.

@Saubaru, they *could* have, but this is son'y we are talking about they dont have the best track record for thinking a head with consoles, *coughcellbeingabitchtocodeforcough*.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:09:37 EDT

C0deZer0 posted : that would imply sony has the manufacturing sense to deal with this before it was too late, and not without simply making another neutered revision like they always do.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:43:23 EDT

Subaru posted : Since they are buying these in bulk I would suspect that Sony talked to AMD about this?

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:37:40 EDT

Woody79_00 posted : True, but I doubt the PS4 GPU will operate at those levels...in fact, i doubt it operates at even 7850 levels...it will be dialed back because of heat.

I have built 6 AMD APU units based on Llano and 5 Based on Trinity....and i can tell you right now that airflow is of the utmost important with these chips.

I know Jaguar is the lower power version, but the fact remains the same....ANYTHING over 62C with an AMD Chip is going to result in damage period. That is just how it is with AMD. I know some people say 71 or 72, but there is no way I would operate an AMD chip over 61C for any extended period of time. That will just fry it.

why am i saying this? Simple. The Graphics on the APU is on the chip with the CPU, thats what an APU is. These AMD APU's, while I like them in some situations, are prone to temperature swings...big temperature swings.

there is no way Sony will be able to run that GPU(on the APU Chip) anywhere near 100% at 100% power draw for any extended period of time without sufficient cooling. I don't mean some crappy heatsink and thermal paste...im talking you would need a real fan to do this.

The max temps on the old PS3 are NOTHING compared to the temps from these APU's if they don't have proper airflow and a decent heatsink....this is the reason I am not getting one...i don't see Sony having adequate cooling and you can bank on a high failure rate if Sony history of cooling means anything...YLOD..ha...that will be nothing in comparison.

I think this has all the makings of the 1st gen Xbox 360 RROD disaster for Sony....knowing Sony they will use a worse heatsink then the stock AMD cooler, which just barely keeps the APU under 60C at full load without overclocks.

If Sony Skimps on the heatsink, fans, and paste(we know they will), then they will have to undervolt that APU a lot and dial back the APU's GPU....if not the heat will get out of hand.

I am only saying this because I have a lot of experience with AMD's APU line, both Llano and Trinity (Socket FM1 and FM2) and they are prone to temp swings, and without a properly ventilated case, heatsink and fans, and undervolting (if not overclocking)...theres no way Sony will able to run that GPU at 100% without heat issues kicking in...perhaps even damaging the hardware...

Again, no way I would run an AMD CPU over 62C(thats really pushing it) for any extended period of time or your going to fry the thing....I just don't think Sony is up to the challenge...you need at least 2 case fans, and a heatsink with a fan, just to keep these APU's cool under load for extended periods...Sony is going to want to squash this thing into a little box...I just don't see this ending well...

Of course Sony will figure this out and fix their cooling in the second generation...but the 1st generation will come out with the cheapest crap possible just to get it out the door and make money....no thanks for me.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:08:22 EDT

me1212 posted : yeah the 7970m has slightly more computing power/teraflops a 7850(the 7850 can do 1.76 TFLOPS) and the ps4 has 1.84TFLOPS. Compared to the ancient ps3 its a decent boost.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:00:46 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : Most of that is probably due to the 7970m and 8 gigs gddr5 ram...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:37:09 EDT

sumit posted : PlayStation 3:
Processing Power = 400 GFLOPS.
Total Memory = 256 system + 256 MB graphics = 512 MB
Memory Bandwidth = 22.4 GB/s

PlayStation 4:
Processing Power = 1840 GFLOPS (4.6 Times more powerful than PS3)
Total Memory = 8 GB Unified GDDR5, (16 times more memory)
Memory Bandwidth = 172 GB/s (7.6 Times more bandwidth)

did you expect more compared to old PS3 ? Huh ?

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:16:49 EDT

me1212 posted : Get an emulator and play your games on it. :p

I get what your saying though, theres a reason they are different. Cause they are different.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:04:50 EDT

danawhitaker posted :

said by me1212:

The left 4 dead games have split screen co-op on pc, and if you got CORE 2 DUO/QUAD and an 8800 those can still play most games today at settings comparable to consoles. Not to mention I saw some wiis go for >$2500 when they first game out, woulda been able to build/upgrade a pc plenty with that. Not trying to push pc over console, I like both(granted I've never touched a 360 or ps3 so I can't comment on them just nintendo stuff, dem exclusives and party games) so I use both and want both to succeed.

Left 4 Dead games aren't exactly appropriate for seven year olds who want to play Mario Party 8, New Super Mario Bros U, Hello Kitty Seasons, Funky Barn, and Nintendo Land. I appreciate the suggestion, but I think this is the point I'm trying to make. In our house, a lot of the games that get played on the console are games that don't ever make it to the PC.

Some people always like to be first. $2500 is crazy, I agree, but in the end, that PC still wouldn't be a Wii, no matter how much money you threw at it, and if the Wii experience was what that person wanted, the best PC in the world would be irrelevant to them.
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You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 13 Feb 2013 09:54:19 EDT

me1212 posted : The left 4 dead games have split screen co-op on pc, and if you got CORE 2 DUO/QUAD and an 8800 those can still play most games today at settings comparable to consoles. Not to mention I saw some wiis go for >$2500 when they first game out, woulda been able to build/upgrade a pc plenty with that. Not trying to push pc over console, I like both(granted I've never touched a 360 or ps3 so I can't comment on them just nintendo stuff, dem exclusives and party games) so I use both and want both to succeed.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:52:04 EDT

danawhitaker posted :

said by I AM:

said by Subaru:

said by Ghastlyone:

It must all be about pricing. That's all I can figure.

They must be trying to stay within the ~400 dollar retail range or so.

Yeah.. No one in this market now is going to spend $600+ on a console, they would do more harm then good at a launch at that price.

IDK. Because people line up on launch day and resale them for like 1k+. Defies my logic of those who buy it. Build a PC!

Because there are games that never get released on the PC. Not to mention that generally games with co-op don't allow two people to play on the same PC at the same time. With a console, my daughter and I can play a game together. Maybe that's an option, but I haven't run into any PC games where you can hook up two controllers and play on the same PC. Are there some? Even then, most of the more kid-friendly titles that I've bought for her for the 360 and Wii U don't seem to end up on the PC. PC gaming is a different breed than console gaming. It's more expensive and time-consuming to maintain a current gaming PC than it is (over time) to own a console.

How many times, for instance, since the launch of the 360 would I have needed up upgrade a gaming PC to keep it current to play games the best I possibly could? 7.5 years is a long time. That would be at least several graphics cards updates, and I'd wager that at some point along there I'd have had to upgrade other components as well in order to stay current and have a game run the way the developers intended, and not just the "basic minimum" that's listed on the box. I'd guess at that point it would be almost, if not completely, an entirely new PC.

That's not to say I'd buy a launch console at inflated prices just to get one more quickly. But not everyone wants to game on a PC, so I can see why someone, if they were really eager to play those launch titles and had the cash to burn, would be willing to do so. Some people just prefer consoles. Your question is sort of like asking why someone would get hamburgers instead of tacos. If you don't like tacos, it doesn't matter how much they cost in comparison, or how fresh they are, or how much better *you* think they taste. The person still wants a hamburger.
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You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:25:24 EDT

I AM posted :

said by Subaru:

said by Ghastlyone:

It must all be about pricing. That's all I can figure.

They must be trying to stay within the ~400 dollar retail range or so.

Yeah.. No one in this market now is going to spend $600+ on a console, they would do more harm then good at a launch at that price.

IDK. Because people line up on launch day and resale them for like 1k+. Defies my logic of those who buy it. Build a PC!

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:06:53 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : I would just get a ps2 emulator at that point, a USB ps2 controller, and play the DVDs on pc...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:52:56 EDT

C0deZer0 posted :

said by Metatron2008:

FFX? Black? The GC and Xbox were much better but in that console generation the PS2's graphics were not bad.

How many people played on 50"+ tvs back then anyway? Or tvs that were not CRTs (Which make SD graphics look better anyway)?

That's why they make scaler boxes like those reviewed here. Stumbled across that link when I saw a forum thread about someone wanting to buy one to get a PSP's native video output to stretch and fill a TV screen properly, since without some form of modification, a PSP 2k/3k/Go will only output a 1:1 res display of PSP-mode games to the TV, regardless of the cable used.

All told though, that link is pretty exhaustive about trying out all sorts of different scaler boxes and equipment for gaming purposes, with the better ones managing to not only be next-to-no input lag (very important on some games), but also near reference quality graphics and scaling, making everything look proper even on such high-def TV's.

As I said, I can attest from personal experience that even when using the same Component Video cables to the same TV, PS1 & PS2 games played on a PS3 look better than they did on the actual PS2. So at least with my BC-able PS3, there is a benefit to play the older games on the new system on a current-gen TV. Or if you want a solution that doesn't require you to hunt for months on eBay or play Russian roulette at gamestop like I did, get a scaler box.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:02:26 EDT

C0deZer0 posted :

said by Metatron2008:

At the end of the day most ps2 games look terrible on a 50"+ plasma or lcd...

Unless you play the games on a BC PS3, or through a dedicated scaler box.

Despite the many promises, in practice many of such boxes vary in quality, and some can be downright terrible, largely because of input lag. Also, some are simply better at processing different resolutions for input sources than others.

A real PS2's video output is infamously bad. That's no big secret. Which in part makes how a compatible PS3's output (especially since firmware 2.40) all the more stunning. However, if you need to hang onto said PS2 for some reason or another (such as those peripherals that simply wouldn't hook up to the PS3), then it would be worth your time to invest in a proper scaler box.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:29:18 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : FFX? Black? The GC and Xbox were much better but in that console generation the PS2's graphics were not bad.

How many people played on 50"+ tvs back then anyway? Or tvs that were not CRTs (Which make SD graphics look better anyway)?

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:38:43 EDT

Thaler posted : Did you play many PS2 classics even in the heyday? The graphics to most were pretty laughable even in its own time...yet the gameplay kept us going.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:21:43 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : At the end of the day most ps2 games look terrible on a 50"+ plasma or lcd...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:56:14 EDT

Thaler posted :

said by C0deZer0:

And this is why if I was going to own a PS3 at all, it would have to have been a CECHA/B model. Hard drive space doesn't mean much at all, if you can't use it like you want to.

I only regret that I didn't get into PS3 before Sony did their shenanigans with removing PS2 emulation. That was a feature I really wanted, but wasn't willing to pay the high price at that time.

But, for $200 (hurray sale), a PS3 that function only as a PS3 wasn't bad.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:41:51 EDT

C0deZer0 posted :

said by Metatron2008:

Can't you change the hard drive on the early ps3 models anyway?

Yep. But I won't lie... these launch PS3's are pretty much furnaces... especially if you are a neophyte and insist on never opening it up.

There are dis-assembly guides online with some simple searching on Google. On my 60gig, I ended up replacing the thermal compound because the stock paste was about as effective as bird guano, and the same consistency. Replacing the stock fan in the 60gig for a Talismoon whisper fan helped the noise, and finally replacing the power supply for one from a later, neutered phat helped with the heat.

If I could, and could find the parts, I would seriously entertain replacing the whole heatsink and fan setup (since it literally takes up the bottom third of a phat ps3's mass) for a liquid cooling setup in the same space.

When I salvaged one of my friends' CECHB systems, I found it had a shittier fan in it than was in the 60, so I put that one in there. :p
--
Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:23:18 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : Can't you change the hard drive on the early ps3 models anyway?

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:32:07 EDT

C0deZer0 posted :

said by Thaler:

I could care less about the hardware behind a console. If it's lacking features I need (ie. plays games, WiFi, etc.), that's when I begin to question my purchase.

And this is why if I was going to own a PS3 at all, it would have to have been a CECHA/B model. Hard drive space doesn't mean much at all, if you can't use it like you want to.
--
Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:57:44 EDT

Thaler posted : I could care less about the hardware behind a console. If it's lacking features I need (ie. plays games, WiFi, etc.), that's when I begin to question my purchase.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:07:46 EDT

me1212 posted : " You'd swear it was as if Sony was actively trying to screw up as much as possible while still being successful."

I am certain they are at this point, if they include the thing that ties each disk to a console to kill to used games market then there will be no doubt left for anyone.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:19:07 EDT

C0deZer0 posted : Yea. I'm stunned any of their games is allowed to pass Sony QA with their epically broken shit.

It's why I refuse to touch a Bethesda-made game. I refuse to pay full price for a game that has less polish and more game-breaking bugs than a typical indie romhack.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:10:37 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : WTF? You are stunned?? Have you followed Bethesda AT ALL on the pc thru Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim, and notice that while they make excellent, fun games, basically the mod community fixes the holes?

There's no mod community to fix bethesdas issues on the ps3 sadly.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:01:15 EDT

C0deZer0 posted : Yea, I'm stunned to read about the dev blogs on how Bethesda still can't figure out how to solve the massive memory leak that has plagued the engine since Fallout, and seems to have been magnified further with Skyrim.

That's been one perpetual gripe from me regarding Sony... they seem to have nobody in their company that knows how to make an SDK worth a damn - especially at launch for a new console. Thankfully some talented devs have been able to muddle through each generation to implement new features that help the dev community at large each generation, but there's still no excuse to make it so ass-poor from the beginning. Seriously, if you were around to pay attention to some of the stuff going on in dev blogs regarding each console generation, You'd swear it was as if Sony was actively trying to screw up as much as possible while still being successful.
--
Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:47:33 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : Not only could they update, Sony let Valve attach some form of Steam to their PS3 games, something microsoft would never do.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:36:51 EDT

me1212 posted : I'm really not surprised by that, epic and valve are two hands down amazing developers. Heck even bethesda hasn't grunted through the ps3's backasswards coding to put out the skyrim expansions. I'm not surprised id and crytek put out tech demos that can do it, but only game published by beth can use id's engines so in my mind they are a moot point at this point in time. Cry tech and epic engines may be licensed out and put real support for moar cores on games but that requires people license the engines from epic and valve, which if the old ones work well enough a lot of companies wouldnt put out the money for new ones.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:24:21 EDT

C0deZer0 posted :

said by me1212:

Oh, cool at least it can be done. Really not surprised its being done by valve of all companies, they are ballin.. They take more risks than most would.

I know there are "tech demo" companies out there - namely, id and Crytek.

But as far as making advancements that benefit the game dev and the gamers at large, I pretty much look to Epic and VALVe to really make good, optimized engines. Really wish there were more that took to their examples.

It was pretty much Epic who grunted through the most to demonstrate that fast and fluid coding on the PS3 is possible, while everyone else was struggling... and VALVe more or less kind of grunted through it afterward. At first they bashed Sony and the PS3 for their infamously convoluted SDK, but muddled through it after the frustrations in trying to get Orange Box on console to get updates like the PC releases traditionally got. It was then an unorthodox move of open-ness from Sony that got them the lead build of a console Portal 2, since VALVe got the permits to update and add in content to the PS3 copy the same way that they could update it on PC.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 19:33:19 EDT

me1212 posted : Oh, cool at least it can be done. Really not surprised its being done by valve of all companies, they are ballin.. They take more risks than most would.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:56:24 EDT

Ghastlyone posted : The PS3 releasing in 2006 at $600 is way different then 2013/14. I can almost bet the majority of people that bought those brand new, did so on their trusty credit cards.

Personally, I think they're nuts if they release these new systems at that price range or even higher.

The economy just aint the same as it once was. Time will tell.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:51:22 EDT

C0deZer0 posted : I'm just amazed the PS3 still has a market... especially since looking at the history before it, no console that launched with an MSRP greater than $400 USD ever succeeded in the market.

3DO is one of the most infamous examples... it wasn't a shabby system by any means, but pretty much a launch MSRP of $750 pretty much put it in the "GTFO" territory.

The combined ridiculousness of cost for the console and cartridges of the Neo Geo ($650 + $300/game!) pretty much meant only the 1%ers could ever afford to sustain the system and build a library appropriate to see what the thing could do.

me1212 , it really depends on how the software handles it, and how it's programmed. Most games/etc might only use one thread for handling rendering, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. VALVe has since implemented multicore rendering to smooth and improve overall performance for Source-based games. And last I read up on the matter, VALVe's method could basically use as many 'cores' as you can throw at it - whether they're hyperthreaded or not.
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Because, f*ck Sony

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:38:25 EDT

Subaru posted :

said by Ghastlyone:

It must all be about pricing. That's all I can figure.

They must be trying to stay within the ~400 dollar retail range or so.

Yeah.. No one in this market now is going to spend $600+ on a console, they would do more harm then good at a launch at that price.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:43:31 EDT

me1212 posted : I have to wonder how amd will use these 8 "cores". I mean I may only be in my intro openGL class for my CS degree, but based on everything the teacher has said game engines pretty much only use 1 core for rendering(unless he is misinformed), and maybe one for audio, one for I/O, one for AI, thats only 4 so far the ps4 has 8. I mean I guess there may be one dedicated to the OS like the ps3 had, but still 3 un-used cores. I suppose they could use like one for ally AI, one for enemy AI, or for like multiple types of enemies AI, to get more things on screen at once. Still that wont account for all the cores.

I am happy to see consoles using more core, because that means more cores will probably be being used on pc and mobile devices too sooner, but I can't figure out how they will do it.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:52:32 EDT

Ghastlyone posted : It must all be about pricing. That's all I can figure.

They must be trying to stay within the ~400 dollar retail range or so.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:51:22 EDT

me1212 posted : How does it match against them then? I ask because I've been a pc+nintendo guy all my life, so I haven't looked into it much, other than what I've seen most message boards say.

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:46:01 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : Again the wii u isn't 'barely 360/ps3' tech. Just because it has lower clock speeds. Otherwise a 10ghz pentium 4 would dominate everything right?

It's a a ati series 4000/5000 chip, 2 gigs ram, and an underpowered cpu (That is based on both power pc and power 7). Which is pretty much the direction the ps4 is moving.

The next gen of consoles won't be having a lot of physics, that's for sure. Any games that are cpu dependant will probably stay on pcs..

The ram and the gpus on all the next gen consoles are good, it's the cpus that are dumb moves..

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:45:17 EDT

me1212 posted : A prebuilt gaming pc(one that can be dual booted with windows no less) has the hope for long lasting consoles, lol... Look at the bright side, maybe this will bring console and pc gamers together. :D

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:41:54 EDT

me1212 posted : Oh crap, didnt notice that, hopefully wireless just goes without saying these days. Unless they plan to use those 4 usb ports to force people to buy an adapter for wifi...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:38:22 EDT

danawhitaker posted : Hmm. Two ethernet ports? I'm more concerned about whether it's going to be wireless. Maybe they forgot to put that in the article.
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You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...

Re: Seriously? PS4 to use AMD cpu???

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:37:21 EDT

me1212 posted : No, the xbox and ps3 beat the pentium ds that were at the time the best intel had to offer, even beat the amd chips. Roughly tied with with the c2ds(at stock speed from what I hear) from 2006.

Amd cores the ps4 may use aren't even as good as phenom ll Zosma cores from 2010. When the ps4 launches in 2014 if they use those amd cores wont even be as good as stuff from what will then be 4 years ago. I'm worried about how gaming as a whole will proceed from here. The wiiu is barley 360/ps3 leve, ps4 will be using tech that is worse than 4 year old(at the time) tech, pc is getting too many indie 2d generic hipster games, the 360 probably wont be much different from the ps4.