dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3727
share rss forum feed


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to Nightfall

Re: What Specialization Would You Choose Now?

I'll be hitting you up for information when my kids reach an age to prep for college.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by Archivis:

I'll be hitting you up for information when my kids reach an age to prep for college.

Your kids are what, about 14 years from college? By then I will be 54 and an old grumpy man. You won't want my advice by then.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

OHN

join:2003-02-05
Appleton, WI
kudos:1
reply to Archivis
Hahahah I did that with my son. I installed Ubuntu on his machine. Now he has a dual boot but does spend a lot of time on the Linux side.


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to Nightfall
My oldest is 11.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
said by Archivis:

My oldest is 11.

Push them to start college early.
Take AP classes.
etc.
--
»Death Star Petition


exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3
reply to OHN
Autodidact FTW!

I started working, as in getting paid, in IT support in 2005. Started college in 2006. I dropped out of college and joined the police department in 2008. Became a violent crimes detective July of 2010. Moved to a detective's slot in our computer forensics unit in March of 2012 investigating (read: hacking, cracking, processing, analyzing) cellular devices. No formal education. Been to a few cellular investigation training classes but find myself bored as hell (not tooting my own horn but I seem to know more than what the class is teaching and every "advanced" class I attend I'm still bored and asking for harder/more intensive work).

I still work in IT but only in a contract type situation managing the servers in our data center for the police department and I volunteer with a non-profit. It keeps the IT side of me happy while I work my regular forensics job.

If I had to do it over again? I'd do what I'm doing. I'm still young (26) so there is time for me to change/move to something else if I want. I really want to learn Cisco network (wired and wireless).
--
"All newspaper editorial writers ever do is come down from the hills after the battle is over and shoot the wounded." - Bruce Anderson
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Xenocrates


Modus
I hate smartassery on forums
Premium
join:2005-05-02
us
reply to OHN
I would do something in the medical field so i could have a bigger impact on peoples lives.
--
Think Ahead. Learn More. Solve Now!

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to OHN
»schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2···rysearch

"Higher education is approaching bubble status. The costs have risen rapidly, beyond the ability of most families to pay. Debt is being taken on at unprecedented levels and in an economic climate that is not providing the high-paying jobs necessary for that debt to be retired. At the same time, employers complain of a skills gap: the inability to hire employees with the skills needed to perform these new technologically demanding jobs."

We need more trades and apprenticeship in tech IT and need move away from the Idea of 4 year+ degrees.

Also IT work should not be lumped into CS.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by Joe12345678:

»schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2···rysearch

"Higher education is approaching bubble status. The costs have risen rapidly, beyond the ability of most families to pay. Debt is being taken on at unprecedented levels and in an economic climate that is not providing the high-paying jobs necessary for that debt to be retired. At the same time, employers complain of a skills gap: the inability to hire employees with the skills needed to perform these new technologically demanding jobs."

We need more trades and apprenticeship in tech IT and need move away from the Idea of 4 year+ degrees.

Also IT work should not be lumped into CS.

While I agree to a certain extent, there are two issues with that blog.

First, there are many colleges out there where you can get a quality 4 year education for under 40k.

Secondly, while there is a need for skilled IT people, there is also a need for educated and skilled IT people. In order to excel in IT, there needs to be skills also in reading, writing, basic math, public speaking, project management, and so on.

What we need are more trades and apprenticeship opportunities in IT that lead to basic technical jobs. The company I work for now needs jobs filled for printer techs badly, and its hard to find good techs these days.

At the same time, IT cannot afford to abandon the college route. If anything, colleges should be looking to augment their offerings to make college more appealing. I am teaching a class right now on network design at Davenport University. We are not only writing proposals, but doing full network designs and involving other IT managers and companies at the same time. We need less teachers who don't know technology teaching these classes and more IT Managers and technical people pushing and teaching students.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

"Higher education is approaching bubble status. The costs have risen rapidly, beyond the ability of most families to pay. Debt is being taken on at unprecedented levels and in an economic climate that is not providing the high-paying jobs necessary for that debt to be retired. At the same time, employers complain of a skills gap: the inability to hire employees with the skills needed to perform these new technologically demanding jobs."

And I'm frequently seeing college grads who have no idea how to do a job that their degree says they're qualified for. How can you spend four years getting a degree in something and not know how to do basic tasks.

We interviewed folks who didn't understand what a subnet mask was. I just don't see people getting their money's worth out of their degrees with the costs.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Ya, I recently opted to go back to college to finish what I'd started.
the junior college I had gone to before only have a comp maintenance degree (but I had taken 4 classes in cisco networking as "electives")

Well at the place I'm going now they have a CiS degree, but looking over the classes it just doesn't look like it covers much networking. (and annoyingly they only accepted 3 out of 35 credit hours, because they didn't see a direct equivalent for the cisco classes or the other networking classes I already had.)

So ya I can fully see how someone that gets a CiS degree would be ill-equipped to be a network admin.

Also the school considers "leadership" a technical degree.
--
»Death Star Petition


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
I just wish there were schools that had prepped people to go into IT jobs.

I think that four years is enough time to take someone and turn them into world-class experts on a particular field. Four years of networking, four years of Sys Admin, four years of programming.

I don't understand.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
said by Archivis:

I just wish there were schools that had prepped people to go into IT jobs.

I think that four years is enough time to take someone and turn them into world-class experts on a particular field. Four years of networking, four years of Sys Admin, four years of programming.

I don't understand.

The old college system is not built for that and sadly the tech schools are roped in to that system.

"accepted 3 out of 35 credit hours"

Lot's of schools do that just have you pay to take there classes it's got so bad that some states have laws saying you must take Community College credits.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Archivis
said by Archivis:

I just wish there were schools that had prepped people to go into IT jobs.

I think that four years is enough time to take someone and turn them into world-class experts on a particular field. Four years of networking, four years of Sys Admin, four years of programming.

I don't understand.

I'll see about posting a list of the classes in the "plan" for CiS (which is the closest to a networking degree I could find.)

outside of the core classes (pre-cal, cal, 2 natural sciences, history, writing, ect) one of the classes is logistics.

then there are maybe 2-3 classes that are related to app dev. um this is CiS not CS.

IMO they need to focus more on networking.
--
»Death Star Petition


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
All IT courses need to have a Networking basics class at a minimum. This is why it's so difficult for me to recommend college for people who want to to get into IT when they can do it so much more effectively and cheaper elsewhere.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Ya I know, the only reason I opted to go back and get a degree is work is willing to reimburse me and I figure I'll help some.

But I feel the 4 cisco classes and the 4 networking classes (admin windows server 2003, internship, and 2 others) were valuable enough the current one should take them.
--
»Death Star Petition


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
If someone else is paying for it, it is hard to turn down. If you have to pay for it in full, it is hard to justify paying for it.

I know most of you are network admins and I'm in the sys admin role. As a sys admin, I still have to understand networking a significant depth, but not at the levels you guys do.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Ya, I just have to keep my grades up to 3.0 or better I think (might need to re-read the policy) and not go over the per semester amount they're willing to pay.

Downside is I can only take them so long as it doesn't interfere with work. (or till they hire more IT for the location)

and I must stay with the company for atleast 1 year after earning my degree.
--
»Death Star Petition


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to Archivis
said by Archivis:

said by Joe12345678:

"Higher education is approaching bubble status. The costs have risen rapidly, beyond the ability of most families to pay. Debt is being taken on at unprecedented levels and in an economic climate that is not providing the high-paying jobs necessary for that debt to be retired. At the same time, employers complain of a skills gap: the inability to hire employees with the skills needed to perform these new technologically demanding jobs."

And I'm frequently seeing college grads who have no idea how to do a job that their degree says they're qualified for. How can you spend four years getting a degree in something and not know how to do basic tasks.

We interviewed folks who didn't understand what a subnet mask was. I just don't see people getting their money's worth out of their degrees with the costs.

You get out of a school what you put into it.

When I was getting my degree in 1997, I learned more of my higher tech at the time from the computer labs where I worked on campus. I learned Novell, routers, switches, and so on through many hours of sitting in front of a terminal. Most of my classmates never got a job in IT through college. I was better prepared than many of them.

Fast forward to today and its incredibly hard to find people who are motivated as a whole. I don't understand how anyone can go to school for 4 years and have little to no expertise in IT when they graduate.

In short, the school or method of training isn't the problem. The person is the problem.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
YA, IMO alot aren't interested in thinking of "how do I use this post college"

for instance even at the junior college I didn't need 16 credit hours of electives (cisco classes) I took it because I knew it would help me.

so IMO people should not "apply for graduation" in the year when they have what they need, they should instead look for electives that will help them in the real world. (so my plan is get all the classes for the degree then hunt for more useful classes.)
--
»Death Star Petition


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to OHN
get your ccie.
you'll never be without a job again. and you'll easily be able to make 6-figs.

q.

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
said by tubbynet:

get your ccie.
you'll never be without a job again. and you'll easily be able to make 6-figs.

q.

Got coffee on my monitor, damn it.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

get your ccie.
you'll never be without a job again. and you'll easily be able to make 6-figs.

q.

Wish I had the money to get that.
and I feel I'd need to take some classes to get all the info in my head.
--
»Death Star Petition


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by DarkLogix:

said by tubbynet:

get your ccie.
you'll never be without a job again. and you'll easily be able to make 6-figs.

q.

Wish I had the money to get that.
and I feel I'd need to take some classes to get all the info in my head.

its not cheap.
written is $350. lab is $1500. labs are only in san jose or rtp, so count on airfare, food, hotel, etc.

well worth it though.
even crappy ccies can bump around from job to job and do well for themselves.
the good ones can command a lot. especially in a sales engineer role.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
So about $2k just to take the test.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by DarkLogix:

So about $2k just to take the test.

We have someone who works at Xerox who has a CCIE and he is awesome. Took him a couple years to get it, but he says it was worth it. The guy lives, breathes, and eats Cisco. I would rather work on server/network infrastructure and IT Strategy.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

So about $2k just to take the test.

$2k just *for* the test.
i have my r/s lab attempt scheduled for march 27th.
my company is anticipating close to $3k just for me to fly there/back, food, transportation, and hotel.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
And if you should fail?


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

said by DarkLogix:

So about $2k just to take the test.

We have someone who works at Xerox who has a CCIE and he is awesome. Took him a couple years to get it, but he says it was worth it. The guy lives, breathes, and eats Cisco. I would rather work on server/network infrastructure and IT Strategy.

i've seen a lot of great ccie's. i've also seen a lot of shitty ones. i've also met a lot of amazing engineers/architects, who haven't a cert to their name.
in the end -- its all about passion and interest in the field. the ccie is just something that provides instant "knowledge" recognition to customers/potential employers.

i'm well respected in the southwest region as a knowledgeable route/switch/wan/datacenter engineer. however, i do run into many instances with customers who want "the numbers after the name". sometimes i can overcome -- others won't have discussions long enough to see my knowledge.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to DarkLogix
said by DarkLogix:

And if you should fail?

they'll pay for three attempts.
plus a single bootcamp. most other study materials i can expense as well.

i've been working here for 6 years -- and am usually put on the most difficult accounts at a principal engineer/architect level for durations of projects/programs.
i am also involved in high-level architecture/design/discovery meetings with our sales teams for route/switch/wan/datacenter projects.

needless to say -- the company will benefit greatly by my having the numbers just as much as i will.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."