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Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14

usenet providers keeping logs

so im curious of opinions and maybe there is someone here with solid evidence.

i know most providers claim they do not keep download logs, although does everyone just trust this is true ? I have never seen a post from someone in the know or within the industry with solid knowledge.


sfl0w

join:2010-07-20
Birmingham, AL
No. Logs are not kept, it would be to much of a drain on system resources to do this, it is not practical because so much is downloaded all the time.

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14
i know people say this, but is this confirmed ? i would like to hear from someone who knows this for a fact, rather than just believes what they have read.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by Bananafarmer:

i know people say this, but is this confirmed ? i would like to hear from someone who knows this for a fact, rather than just believes what they have read.

So, you'll believe what you read here? How... interesting.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14
useless comments are not really required.

i asked for opinions, never said i would believe or agree with them. thats why this is called a discussion.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by Bananafarmer:

useless comments are not really required.

i asked for opinions, never said i would believe or agree with them. thats why this is called a discussion.

And yet when someone posted their opinion, you pooh-poohed it. So, which is it?

If you really want to KNOW perhaps you should go to the source -- e.g. as the Usenet provider(s) you're interested in using.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to Bananafarmer
I can only speak for my users and my service but no download logs are kept.

I believe this to be the case with all main stream usenet servers out there.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts


squircle

join:2009-06-23
Oakville, ON
reply to Bananafarmer
Logs are not kept on any major usenet provider. See here, here and here for examples. Only anonymous logs (i.e. those that cannot be traced back to you) are kept. No need to worry.

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14
reply to darcilicious
i asked if his comment was confirmed ? i didnt pooh a thing.

thanks for your time commenting anyway.

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14
reply to swintec
your a reseller ?

i know they claim to keep none, was just curious if anyone could actually confirm their statements.

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Bananafarmer
Swintec's assertion is as good as you're going to get. Believe it or don't.

jimboe

join:2000-08-14
New York
reply to Bananafarmer
even if it's a lie, and they are keeping logs, there has never ever been any action at all against a downloader..

..unless it had to do with pedo garbage, you're wasting brain cycles thinking about it.

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14
only reason i was thinking about it was all this usenet attention, i would hate for this to be the calm before the storm kind of situation.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Bananafarmer
Authorities are using "take down" orders with co-operating usenet providers. If logs were available they wouldn't resort to this alone.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14
yeah very good point


networkguy

@safeway.com
reply to jimboe
said by jimboe:

even if it's a lie, and they are keeping logs, there has never ever been any action at all against a downloader..

..unless it had to do with pedo garbage, you're wasting brain cycles thinking about it.

Even then I dont believe someone JUST downloading has been popped. As I understand it its been the uploaders, whose presence was contained in the headers.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to Bananafarmer
said by Bananafarmer:

your a reseller ?

i know they claim to keep none, was just curious if anyone could actually confirm their statements.

Yes, he is. Swintec runs the very excellent Usenetnow service. If you don't believe him on the forums here, you may as well forget about it.
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Bananafarmer
I think the other problem with usenet is that the piracy trollers don't know who's guilty. On a torrent they can pull a list of peers/seeders and instantly see the IP address of everyone sharing the file. It's extremely easy for them to see, and thus they can request an individuals name from the ISP.

The run a little more blind on usenet. They can't link onto the connection like that. You're usenet connection is between you (your isp) and your NSP. Thus if they wanted to get logs, they'd have no single person to request a log for (not even vague evidence of an infraction). Thus the trollers would have to request the entire logs for a Usenet Provider. I think this would be very difficult to get approved. They would have zero proof of users violating copyright, thus no reason to have a court order issued?

I think that's why they use the takedown approach with usenet. P2P (like torrents) are very transparent. Usenet connections aren't really visible to outsiders, and thus prevent the info needed to obtain a court order from getting into the hands of the copyright trolls?

Bananafarmer

join:2012-12-14

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Badonkadonk
i have since signed up with his usenetnow service, must say .. much better experience then that of my last


Urnso

join:2001-02-26
Cleveland, OH

2 edits
They log each and every upload that you make. They do not log downloads. It would be impossible (well not really) but very costly. If you upload they know who you are and a court order can be issued to get your information. If you read the terms on most providers you will see the "anonymous downloads" etc. But very few will you see them speak of anonymous uploads and if they do say it, it read as anonymous posting which is regards to text based posting.

Basically you are a crazy mofo if you are uploading. When they start popping the court orders this will all change.
--
It's hard to make something fool proof, when the fools already have a head start!

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
There are ways people upload anonymously. They aint dumb!

Even if the cops required the info from the providers, they would get bogus info.


Urnso

join:2001-02-26
Cleveland, OH
reply to Bananafarmer
Your binary post is tied to a username, whether you use a vpn or other method to protect yourself makes no difference. When you sign up for an account you use your credit card and that post can essentially be tied to you that way. Unless you have a fast free server which I am sure some do but for the most part you can be tracked. Now maybe it is differrent with the bitcoin and other payment methods, but I believe this post was geared more towards the casual user that might experiment with sharing some of his "prized" downloads. To the I am saying be very careful what you upload. You pro's out there.... you're doing a great job!
--
It's hard to make something fool proof, when the fools already have a head start!

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
said by Urnso:

Your binary post is tied to a username, whether you use a vpn or other method to protect yourself makes no difference. When you sign up for an account you use your credit card and that post can essentially be tied to you that way. Unless you have a fast free server which I am sure some do but for the most part you can be tracked. Now maybe it is differrent with the bitcoin and other payment methods, but I believe this post was geared more towards the casual user that might experiment with sharing some of his "prized" downloads. To the I am saying be very careful what you upload. You pro's out there.... you're doing a great job!

I didn't think your username is associated with the post? You can post it with an email address attached (but you can use anyone you want?). I'm pretty sure usernames aren't attached to usenet uploads, just the email address, and path in which it was posted.

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Urnso
said by Urnso:

Your binary post is tied to a username, whether you use a vpn or other method to protect yourself makes no difference. When you sign up for an account you use your credit card and that post can essentially be tied to you that way. Unless you have a fast free server which I am sure some do but for the most part you can be tracked. Now maybe it is differrent with the bitcoin and other payment methods, but I believe this post was geared more towards the casual user that might experiment with sharing some of his "prized" downloads. To the I am saying be very careful what you upload. You pro's out there.... you're doing a great job!

I didn't think your username is associated with the post? You can post it with an email address attached (but you can use anyone you want?). I'm pretty sure usernames aren't attached to usenet uploads, just the email address, and path in which it was posted.

If it was as easy as pulling a username from an infringing upload, the copyright trollers could easily get orders and go right after the uploaders. It'd be like shooting ducks in a barrel.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
said by zod5000:

I didn't think your username is associated with the post?

X-Trace: DXC=l3ibC];B;P`J?XMfTm0i_cL?0kYOcDh@ja^N3eXmHNooRZ18Oe>VmIa27Sdc;3@hJi_L57nnEaF\m5Y26bZgj>2eE\LhO>fFbkk

Your username, among other things, are in that line of text which makes up the header of posts.

This can only be deciphered by those that run the posting server that you posted through.

To get the information though, most (all i hope) require a subpoena for the information. It takes time / money to get one so effort is better spent elsewhere unless there is an extenuating circumstance for a particular post.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to Urnso
said by Urnso:

Your binary post is tied to a username, whether you use a vpn or other method to protect yourself makes no difference. When you sign up for an account you use your credit card and that post can essentially be tied to you that way. Unless you have a fast free server which I am sure some do but for the most part you can be tracked. Now maybe it is differrent with the bitcoin and other payment methods, but I believe this post was geared more towards the casual user that might experiment with sharing some of his "prized" downloads. To the I am saying be very careful what you upload. You pro's out there.... you're doing a great job!

Still wouldn't matter if it did include a user name. There are anonymous ways to pay and to hide your destination. That and you can minimize exposer even further by posting to a server out of country.