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xech
join:2012-11-22

xech

Member

Google has to work with verizon

Google is kind of dumb I suppose, instead of working with verizon to bring 1gbps at $70 to every home in the US, they are wasting lots of time and money trying to make their own, I don't get this. If verizon already has the biggest fiber network of any US ISP and covers nationwide why not join with google and expand it to all homes. It would be possible to offer 10Gbps service to homes they were testing as well as as 1Gbps for an affordable price. If google keeps going with their fiber idea it's going to take years just to reach a few states, but if gets with verizon, everyone can have it by this year or next.
faze
join:2011-01-10
Reisterstown, MD

faze

Member

They're working in one location to get their fiber network working properly and are scaling out slowly so they have control over what is going on, and can do it properly. They're not being dumb at all.

birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

birdfeedr to xech

MVM

to xech
said by xech:

If verizon already has the biggest fiber network of any US ISP and covers nationwide why not join with google and expand it to all homes.

Verizon does not have nationwide fiber network and never will. Wall Street couldn't stay behind the massive capex needed just for the footprint they're in, much less nationwide.

Verizon's current plans call for LTE coverage nearly everywhere dense, and lots of folks are impressed with the plans, at least until they find out wireless is more limited than wired.

Then you'll hear the griping resume.
xech
join:2012-11-22

xech

Member

i mean verizon has more fiber locations at high speeds than other isps but not everywhere
faze
join:2011-01-10
Reisterstown, MD

faze

Member

Google Fiber JUST started.

Give it time. It'll be ok.
xech
join:2012-11-22

xech to faze

Member

to faze
I know they are not "dumb" I just think that is not a really good idea just to do it all by themselves without collaborating with verizon and other ISPs.
faze
join:2011-01-10
Reisterstown, MD

faze

Member

You don't know that they aren't working with others.
xech
join:2012-11-22

xech

Member

true but at the end they try to get it all to themselves.
faze
join:2011-01-10
Reisterstown, MD

faze

Member

I really don't understand the point of this thread/your gripe?
ScrawnyB
join:2004-05-18
Mechanicsburg, PA

ScrawnyB to xech

Member

to xech
OP, do you even have FiOS? Is that your gripe?

Verizon can technically offer 1Gbps to most homes that currently have FiOS whenever it is ready (meaning the COs have been upgraded and what not...). The technology (X-GPON) exists, and has been (and probably still is being) tested. Verizon has been rumored to come out with a 500Mbit tier by year end, of which I think is incredible, and still also overkill at the present time. I'm still trying to justify moving from 50/25 to 150/65, and I'm having a hard time doing just that.

Now if your gripe is about Verizon not having FiOS in all of their current POTS territories, well that's Verizon's choice. FiOS was what VZ considers to be a premium product, which costs them a large amount of money to deploy to areas, especially areas like mine where the population isn't as dense as somewhere as say NYC. They determine what areas are most profitable/easily served and they feel financially viable as a way to produce a quick turnaround/return of investment.

Lastly, if your complaint is about Verizon only offering 50/25 for like $80 a month, or 150/65 for approximately $100/month, feel free to complain. Bandwidth doesn't come cheap to end-users. Google is able to subsidize their costs through advertisements and other revenues, allowing them to offer internet at $Free.99/month after initial install costs, or $70/month for gigabit. One set of communities for a trial does not mean that it's a sustainable business model at the current price. If Google felt that it was, their clause wouldn't have included a way out (without penalty) after a few years. There are a lot of infrastructure costs that need to be taken into effect, not just delivery of bandwidth. That's what technology trials and experiments are for, to see how viable a solution is.

Take some time and think about all of what was presented above, and you might understand where these companies are coming from.
faze
join:2011-01-10
Reisterstown, MD

faze

Member

I think he's just sad that he doesn't have Google Fiber yet.
xech
join:2012-11-22

xech to ScrawnyB

Member

to ScrawnyB
no i don't have fios I just wanted to express my opinion about the current events. I know that 1gbps can be used right now by everyone on fios, a verizon employee told me that their network can switch to 1gbps whenever they want, they don't have to upgrade anything, But they just don't want to right now, I never know why. I know verizon doesn't have as much money as google does but it can do the job, you can still get 1gbps using private isps but its crazy expensive like at least $600 for the service to households.
faze
join:2011-01-10
Reisterstown, MD

faze

Member

1gig internet is kind of useless anyway, 99% of what you're getting data from on the internet is on a DS3 or lower.

birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

birdfeedr to xech

MVM

to xech
said by xech:

I know that 1gbps can be used right now by everyone on fios, a verizon employee told me that their network can switch to 1gbps whenever they want, they don't have to upgrade anything

Not true. My BPON ONT has a 10/100 ethernet connection. No matter what can be pumped on the fiber, the max I can get out is 100 mbps, and don't forget that includes up and down.

nycdave
MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY

nycdave to xech

MVM

to xech
said by xech:

no i don't have fios I just wanted to express my opinion about the current events. I know that 1gbps can be used right now by everyone on fios, a verizon employee told me that their network can switch to 1gbps whenever they want, they don't have to upgrade anything, But they just don't want to right now, I never know why. I know verizon doesn't have as much money as google does but it can do the job, you can still get 1gbps using private isps but its crazy expensive like at least $600 for the service to households.

Not at all true on FiOS - that Verizon employee obviously isn't in the know...

brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brewster, NY

brooklynman4

Member

google has only one city wired its to early .
McBane
join:2008-08-22
Wylie, TX

McBane

Member

Never gonna happen, Verizon would need massive upgrades to their backbone to support FiOS at 1Gbps. The new quantum speeds are already straining the network if you look at the threads on here.

Also Google and Verizon are now competitors so I doubt it will ever happen (Although Verizon did get in bed with the Cable Co's to avoid competition to buy more wireless spectrum since the cable co's got to it first when it was on auction after all the analog TV stations got turned off by the FCC, so nothing is impossible.)

It's funny how big businesses agree to not upgrade or build out to new people to force them onto another crappier monopoly. This type of business is akin to the turn of the century monopolies like Standard Oil, the original JP Morgan, and US Steel. It took a Teddy Roosevelt to dismantle all those monopolies and restore order to business America and here we are today in the same position. We have just dug ourselves a deeper hole to get out of this time by letting all these mergers and non-compete deals to happen since the major corporations have pretty much bought out the federal government.

I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon starts chopping up and selling their FiOS network off like they did with copper in a few years from now since they are geared into wireless as their main business now.
VirtualLarry
Premium Member
join:2003-08-01

VirtualLarry

Premium Member

said by McBane:

I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon starts chopping up and selling their FiOS network off like they did with copper in a few years from now since they are geared into wireless as their main business now.

I hope that doesn't happen. VZ's customer reps may not all be the best and brightest, but their network engineers are decent.
dmine45
join:2002-11-03
Fredericksburg, VA

dmine45 to xech

Member

to xech
Verizon is not expanding their FiOS network beyond where they said originally where they'd install service. Once that's complete with that, they're done.

This is two fold. One reason is that wireless is where they see growth. The second (and this is only a rumor that I heard) is that Comcast and Verizon worked out an agreement - Comcast won't go into wireless and Verizon won't expand FiOS.

So what does this mean for Google Fiber? They can do whatever they want. AT&T's U-Verse is no comparison to true fiber. It just can't handle the bandwidth or serve a large portion of population. I wish Google Fiber the best if they expand beyond the Kansas City area. Might give AT&T and CenturyLink (former Qwest) and of course Comcast/Charter/Time-Warner some real competition.
McBane
join:2008-08-22
Wylie, TX

2 edits

McBane

Member

That "agreement" was all part of Verizon grabbing that extra 4G spectrum that the cable company consortium snagged from the FCC auction of the old TV stations white space when they forced everyone over to digital broadcasting only. The cable companies knew this was their ace in the hole against Verizon/AT&T so they massively outbid everyone for it.

Now the cable company had prime 4G real estate and wouldn't just hand it over to Verizon/AT&T without something big in return. The deal they worked out was that the cable companies would let Verizon use the space in exchange for Verizon to cease expanding FiOS into further cable markets, also Verizon agreed to let the cable companies use their wireless network to "rebrand" their version of Verizon Wireless as their own.

Since AT&T was left out of this deal, their 4G spectrum grab was in the form of the T-Mobile buy out, which also didn't quite work out to their favor.

I'm glad I got FiOS in my area while they were building it, but once that deal was made I see it as the final nail in the coffin for FiOS. When Verizon lost their last CEO their ambitious FiOS plans went out the door with him. I think we'll be lucky to see upgrades to FiOS beyond GPON. I really hope Verizon continues to upgrade the network, but the new Verizon sees FiOS as it's bastard child since all the workers for it are union controlled and they want to shed the unions from their business all together.

Unions and corporations and back room government/corporate deals are the bane of innovation and competition in this country and deals like this are exactly why.

AT&T is slowly but surely building a nationwide fiber network just like Verizon has done, but they are years behind from starting (Verizon started in the late 90s building out the FiOS networks, AT&T just started around 2005). AT&T's network footprint is also massive compared to Verizon so naturally it's going to take much longer to refit their network for a FiOS alternative. This is why they started with the "Fiber to the node" method instead of just going all the way to FTTP. This allowed them to get the framework of U-Verse out but just not at fiber speeds yet. In 10 years or so U-Verse is going to be just as capable as FiOS. Once that happens it'll be interesting to see what the cable companies will do. If they want to survive, they better get on the fiber bandwagon as well or they stick to coax and accept their service as inferior and lose money because they have to offer their service for pennies on the dollar compared to the Verizon/AT&T fiber networks.

Google has a long long long way to go to build out any US network, they are just 1 city right now. Verizon/AT&T have more than 100 years of infrastructure in place ahead of Google on this.