Topic 'Pond scum subspecies' in forum '' - dslreports.com

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 02:34:44 EDT

NormanS posted :

If you are near the immediate fault line, then buried could be a problem. But that is a pretty insignificant amount of area.

There is no "fault line". There multiple fault zones. Three of the big ones, nearby, are the San Andreas, the Hayward, and the Calaveras. There are hundreds of smaller ones.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:48:29 EDT

silbaco posted : If you are near the immediate fault line, then buried could be a problem. But that is a pretty insignificant amount of area.

Buried utilities have proven themselves over and over again.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:08:57 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by sticks435:

That's because you live in one of the most temperate climates in the United States, not Tornado Alley. Your storms are probably nothing compared to what we get here.

But we have earthquakes up the kazoo. With sufficient lateral displacement of the earth, you can kiss your buried utilities goodbye.

What works in one place may fail in another.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:33:32 EDT

davidhoffman posted : Where did you have electric power companies not fixed downed lines? I have never seen that action taken after a storm.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:18:46 EDT

brad posted :

said by tschmidt:

If I had my druthers we would implement some type of wholesale fiber first-mile implementation. Various service providers would rent strands or lambdas (colors) to deliver end user service. Primary and secondary power would be at the top of the pole, multi-fiber cable underneath and all the existing legacy cable, phone, cable, fire alarm, etal removed.

That would be the most ideal situation.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:49:49 EDT

brad posted :

said by Simba7:

said by brad:

Yes, they're rolling out an all fibre network but they're not thinking long term.

Um.. Yes they are. Copper can't push the speeds Fiber can. Copper has limits. Fiber, technically, does not.

Do I have to put sarcasm tags around it for you?

The comment was making fun of the other thing he said.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 17:55:29 EDT

silbaco posted : Fixing lines is costly. Replacing poles is even more costly. As the poles continue to age in many places, companies are being reminded how stupid it was not to bury the cables.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 17:35:27 EDT

CXM_Splicer posted : Wow, that's nice. I am paying $19.95/mo for 3 Mbps. The 15 Mbps is 34.99/mo.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 17:29:43 EDT

Simba7 posted :

said by brad:

Yes, they're rolling out an all fibre network but they're not thinking long term.

Um.. Yes they are. Copper can't push the speeds Fiber can. Copper has limits. Fiber, technically, does not.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:00:17 EDT

brad posted :

said by silbaco:

You misinterpreted my comment. I was talking about upstream bandwidth the entire time.

No, I did not.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:59:33 EDT

brad posted :

said by elios:

if you think every other ISP in the world isnt selling user data your dead wrong

Doesn't change what I said. The connection is subsidized. That isn't the case for other ISPs and even if the other ISPs are selling your data they're not going to pass any savings on to you the customer as a result of doing so.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:57:34 EDT

sticks435 posted :

said by NormanS:

said by silbaco:

Other utilities should not be on poles either. It's just an attempt to save money that doesn't really work. If you don't own the poles, then you have to pay to use them. Every time a storm blows in you have to role trucks to fix the downed lines. Their customers have to suffer service outages. They should just do it right the first time and put the cables in the ground.

Haven't had a storm blow shit off the poles, here, in more than 50 years. Had buried shit severely messed up in San Francisco twice since 1906.

That's because you live in one of the most temperate climates in the United States, not Tornado Alley. Your storms are probably nothing compared to what we get here.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:31:04 EDT

silbaco posted : I have never seen phone lines placed above ground, so I can't comment on that. But I have seen ice bring down power and fiber.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:12:03 EDT

PaulHikeS2 posted : Post withdrawn

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:06:26 EDT

tschmidt posted :

said by silbaco:

Other utilities should not be on poles either. It's just an attempt to save money that doesn't really work. If you don't own the poles, then you have to pay to use them.

Saving money is not irrelevant, lowering infrastructure cost goes a long way to increasing penetration. Aerial infrastructure is enough of an eyesore already, I don't want separate poles for: power, phone, Cable, Etc.

said by silbaco:

Every time a storm blows in you have to role trucks to fix the downed lines. They should just do it right the first time and put the cables in the ground.

I respectfully disagree. Here in NH most utilities are above ground. In the thirty years we have lived here have lost power dozens of times, sometimes for a week on end. We have never once lost phone service. When a tree falls on aerial service the power cables break the fall so tree gets hung up and usually does not sever cable or phone service.

Same thing in a traffic accident. Down pole may short out power conductors but communication cables are rarely damaged.

Underground service costs about 10X what aerial does and it is not immune to disruption: frost heaves and errant backhoes play havoc with underground service. In addition it is much harder to find and repair underground faults.

If I had my druthers we would implement some type of wholesale fiber first-mile implementation. Various service providers would rent strands or lambdas (colors) to deliver end user service. Primary and secondary power would be at the top of the pole, multi-fiber cable underneath and all the existing legacy cable, phone, cable, fire alarm, etal removed.

In dense urban environments underground utilities make sense but that is the exception not the rule. If you want to pay the premium that is fine but it should not be the norm due to expense.

/tom

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:06:11 EDT

tschmidt posted :

said by silbaco:

Other utilities should not be on poles either. It's just an attempt to save money that doesn't really work. If you don't own the poles, then you have to pay to use them.

said by silbaco:

Every time a storm blows in you have to role trucks to fix the downed lines. They should just do it right the first time and put the cables in the ground.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:24:49 EDT

MovieLover76 posted : Living in NJ, even before Sandy I can say that downed wires are extremely common, in CA I'm sure you don't have as many powerful storms as we do in NJ.

Some areas in NJ have underground wires, normally the richer areas, they don't lose power or phone as often as the areas served by poles, and even when they do, the power comes back much faster, because the problem is centralized, normally it's the transformer itself, downed lines take much longer and are more costly to fix.

In NJ we've always wanted underground wires, even more so since Sandy.
Does it cost more, yes obviously. But in some areas it really would make much more sense in the long run.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:51:24 EDT

silbaco posted : Highly possible.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:45:32 EDT

elios posted : thats nice bet your ass AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and the other big ones are

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:41:18 EDT

silbaco posted : My ISP isn't. I would know about it if they did.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:40:52 EDT

silbaco posted : You misinterpreted my comment. I was talking about upstream bandwidth the entire time.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:38:59 EDT

silbaco posted : They are deploying fiber because it would be idiotic to deploy copper.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:30:40 EDT

elios posted : if you think every other ISP in the world isnt selling user data your dead wrong

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:20:35 EDT

morbo posted : Too bad the solution for downed lines is to abandon service, not fix the downed lines. We've all seen how electric companies never repair downed power lines.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:13:12 EDT

Austinloop posted : Of course, backhoes, boring machines, large augers, etc., never damage cable. Water never gets into cables, etc. Sorry, but the expense and time to fix a damaged buried, or underground cable is most usually longer and more costly than a repair of an aerial cable due to the necessity to accurately locate the the damage, than have it dug up, and then repaired. Not to mention that damages to aerial cables are much easier to find.

Several years ago, the cost for burying cable here in the rock (rock starts about 6 inches to 1 foot below grade was in the neighborhood of $4 to $5 dollars per foot.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:12:51 EDT

brad posted :

said by silbaco:

Google has the money.

The cost of putting lines in the ground often times pays for itself in the long run. But companies don't like to think long term.

Yes, they're rolling out an all fibre network but they're not thinking long term.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:09:51 EDT

brad posted :

said by silbaco:

They receive better rates because they are Google. Munis and cooperatives struggle greatly under the cost of upstream bandwidth. Sure buying more makes bandwidth less expensive, but in order to buy more you have to spend more. That isn't an option for a small company. Only large corporations or those fortunate enough to be in an area where upstream bandwidth is cheaper.

If my ISP tried to offer 1Gbps for $70 per month, they would lose money on the cost of bandwidth alone.

Your comment was commenting on cheaper bandwidth only. Google is offering the service cheaper because it is subsidized by ads! One has nothing to do with the other and they're two completely different issues.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:02:54 EDT

silbaco posted : They receive better rates because they are Google. Munis and cooperatives struggle greatly under the cost of upstream bandwidth. Sure buying more makes bandwidth less expensive, but in order to buy more you have to spend more. That isn't an option for a small company. Only large corporations or those fortunate enough to be in an area where upstream bandwidth is cheaper.

If my ISP tried to offer 1Gbps for $70 per month, they would lose money on the cost of bandwidth alone.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:00:13 EDT

silbaco posted : Google has the money.

The cost of putting lines in the ground often times pays for itself in the long run. But companies don't like to think long term.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:59:42 EDT

keithps posted : I pay only $69 for 100/100Mbps...

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:48:49 EDT

brad posted :

said by silbaco:

Are you going to provide the millions in additional capital it would take to do so?

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:45:29 EDT

brad posted :

said by silbaco:

Google probably got a lot better rate for bandwidth from their upstream for Google Fiber.

They receive better rates because they're purchasing a large quantity of bandwidth. Other companies can do the same thing. Kansas City also isn't lacking in transit providers so there is competition. The markets that truly get raped typically only have one or two options. If companies are buying a lot of bandwidth they can backhaul it in from another major city. You tend to be screwed when you don't need a lot of it and there are very limited options.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:20:41 EDT

silbaco posted : It is an extremely common occurrence in the Midwest. Or trees falling on lines. Google will find that out sooner or later. Kansas city is in an area that can get ice storms too, although not overly common there. Ice will bring down everything.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:10:36 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by silbaco:

Haven't had a storm blow shit off the poles, here, in more than 50 years. Had buried shit severely messed up in San Francisco twice since 1906.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:55:20 EDT

silbaco posted : Other utilities should not be on poles either. It's just an attempt to save money that doesn't really work. If you don't own the poles, then you have to pay to use them. Every time a storm blows in you have to role trucks to fix the downed lines. Their customers have to suffer service outages. They should just do it right the first time and put the cables in the ground.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:48:10 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by silbaco:

Google should have put all of it in the ground.

Why? If the other utilities are on poles, why not fiber?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:46:05 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by tlylework :

I currently pay $55/month for 18mb uverse connection.

I pay only $19.98/month for 15 Mbps ...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:44:43 EDT

silbaco posted : Google should have put all of it in the ground.

Google probably got a lot better rate for bandwidth from their upstream for Google Fiber. That's not always possible in most areas.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:33:43 EDT

elios posted : seems to cost about 70 bucks a month
at lest from Google.... just saying..
providing the bandwidth is cheap dirt cheap
even running fiber on poles isnt that much

Google said the most expensive part was any where they had to put cable in the ground

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:33:07 EDT

aciddrink posted : Nice, I pay $55/month for 15mbps/1mbps. Last month it was only 10mbps but they upgraded everybody for 'free'.

Re: Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:00:31 EDT

anon posted : While I would agree the FCC is a bit of a joke, the cost of entry into the 1GB market is cost prohibitive for most. Not to mention what the providers would charge for it. I currently pay $55/month for 18mb uverse connection. I can only imagine what I would pay for 1GB.

Pond scum subspecies

Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:49:28 EDT

WiseOldNerd posted : All elected politicians are pond scum and their political appointments are a even scummier subset.
--
My perception is REALITY