Re: Sounds like the same old crap. -

Author	All Replies
tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:8 Reviews: ·G4 Communications ·Fairpoint Commun.. ·Hollis Hosting	reply to battleop Re: Sounds like the same old crap. Agree. I have to assume some locations in each of the fifty states already access to a Gig connection if they want it and can afford it. Super high speed for the few is not the problem. Reasonable speed for everyone at an affordable price is. /tom
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 10:57:39 ·
brad join:2007-09-06 Etobicoke, ON	said by tschmidt: Super high speed for the few is not the problem. Reasonable speed for everyone at an affordable price is. I'd rather see 100Mbps - 200Mbps for 80%+ of the population instead of 1Gb for 10% and at good pricing and without caps. What is available now all too often is overpriced and increasingly is capped making it useless.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 11:39:18 ·
decifal join:2007-03-10 Bon Aqua, TN kudos:1 Reviews: ·Verizon Broadban..	said by brad: said by tschmidt: Super high speed for the few is not the problem. Reasonable speed for everyone at an affordable price is. I'd rather see 100Mbps - 200Mbps for 80%+ of the population instead of 1Gb for 10% and at good pricing and without caps. What is available now all too often is overpriced and increasingly is capped making it useless. /\--- I nominate you as head of the FCC I completely agree with your statement
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 11:52:46 ·
elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO	reply to brad the thing is once you run the fiber the costs for 1Gbps over 100Mbps are trivial
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 12:06:00 ·
brad join:2007-09-06 Etobicoke, ON	said by elios: the thing is once you run the fiber the costs for 1Gbps over 100Mbps are trivial Who said anything about fibre? You don't need fibre to get 100Mbps - 200Mbps service to most people. Having fibre everywhere is the most ideal situation but it isn't going to happen.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 12:36:15 ·
elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO	to get 100/100 or 200/200 you bet your ass you need fiber sure as hell not going to doing over the copper on the poles now ask AT&T how thats working out
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 12:55:06 ·
brad join:2007-09-06 Etobicoke, ON	said by elios: to get 100/100 or 200/200 you bet your ass you need fiber sure as hell not going to doing over the copper on the poles now ask AT&T how thats working out wrong.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:07:49 ·
elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO	really theres a Nobel prize in it for you if you can figure out to put 200/200 down 100 year old telco copper
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:22:26 ·
silbaco join:2009-08-03 USA	They already do 100/100 with VDSL. 200/200 has been done in the lab, although I don't know of any deployments yet.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:36:46 ·
Skippy25 join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO	reply to brad Please provide a source that contradicts him beyond you claiming it is wrong. And dont even mention VDSL2 or some other crap variance of DSL which is so distance limited to begin with you would have to run fiber quite deep just to offer it.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:38:18 ·
elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO	reply to silbaco in a LAB a lab is not the real world and even in the lab the distance was VERY short
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:43:44 ·

tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:8 Reviews: ·G4 Communications ·Fairpoint Commun.. ·Hollis Hosting 1 edit	reply to elios said by elios: really theres a Nobel prize in it for you if you can figure out to put 200/200 down 100 year old telco copper Just to clarify, it is not speed per sa that is the problem. It is delivering high speed over thousands of feet of copper. ADSL and VDSL do a fantastic job moving bits over voice grade twisted pair. VDSL2 is capable of 100/100 Mbps but is limited to only 1,000 feet. Not very practical in the real world. The fact there has not been a new ADSL/VDSL standard in years indicates copper has run out of gas, even with clever modulation/recovery techniques. 80% of US customers are 15,000 feet or less from the central office. Statistics for rural customers is much worse, Less then 50% are within 15,000 feet. I'd love to see some clever engineering that utilizes existing copper infrastructure but I'm not holding my breath. Fiber is the only solution for wired broadband. Once installed is is actually cheaper then copper because maintenance costs are much lower. The down side is high up front capital investment that no quarterly profits driven CEO is willing to make. /tom fixed typos
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:45:40 ·
elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO	thats kinda what i was getting at and better said
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 13:47:15 ·
MovieLover76 join:2009-09-11 kudos:1 Reviews: ·Verizon FiOS ·DIRECTV ·Optimum Online ·Cablevision	reply to brad 100 - 200Mbps and the destruction of caps on wire-line broadband. I'm lucky to have escaped it so far with Verizon FiOS. But the trend stifles innovation. their are much more effective congestion based throttling approaches, that are much more effective at battling congestion. I'm not thrilled about Wireless caps either, but in that arena I can't argue with the current spectrum and technology limitations, wireless internet will always need to be controlled in some way, though I think the caps are artificially low.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 14:10:43 ·
MovieLover76 join:2009-09-11 kudos:1 Reviews: ·Verizon FiOS ·DIRECTV ·Optimum Online ·Cablevision	reply to elios Yea for real world speeds like that you need fiber, cable can do it downstream now and has to potential with upstream channel bonding to do it up as well. But old pots lines aren't going to do it, at least not unless the vdsl box is on the customers property , at the distances needed for that kind of speed, your better off doing fiber into the house.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 14:15:00 ·
silbaco join:2009-08-03 USA	reply to elios Perhaps. But A single pair for VDSL can push 100/100 in real deployments in countries like Finland. If you were to bond that, you could increase both the distance and the speed.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 15:44:08 ·
elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO	how far was the loop bet it was under 1500feet
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 15:52:03 ·
horseathalt7 join:2012-06-11 Reviews: ·DIRECTV	reply to tschmidt What about the REST of US, said by tschmidt: Super high speed for the few is not the problem. Reasonable speed for everyone at an affordable price is. AMEN! The rich and the poor are very well spoken for....but what about the REST OF US????? just REASONABLE speeds for a REASONABLE price. It seems once again that NOBODY with influence gives a rats butt about the folks that make the country work, the middle class.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 16:31:09 ·
brad join:2007-09-06 Etobicoke, ON	reply to tschmidt Re: Sounds like the same old crap. said by tschmidt: ADSL and VDSL do a fantastic job moving bits over voice grade twisted pair. VDSL2 is capable of 100/100 Mbps but is limited to only 1,000 feet. Not very practical in the real world. The fact there has not been a new ADSL/VDSL standard in years indicates copper has run out of gas, even with clever modulation/recovery techniques. The lack of a new standard doesn't mean anything. There isn't a requirement for a new standard. The existing VDSL2 standard can have a variety of speed profiles and there is definitely on-going work by the major vendors to improve VDSL2. One such major improvement that is being rolled out by carriers around the world over the next 2 years is Vectoring which will allow existing connections able to attain 25Mbps service to now be able to attain 75/100 Mbps service. Using VDSL2 Bonding which utilizes 2 pair that can be raised to 150/200Mbps. Alcatel-Lucent is working on Phantom Mode which when used in conjunction with Bonding can further raise that upwards of 300Mbps. said by tschmidt: 80% of US customers are 15,000 feet or less from the central office. Statistics for rural customers is much worse, Less then 50% are within 15,000 feet. I'd love to see some clever engineering that utilizes existing copper infrastructure but I'm not holding my breath. You don't feed VDSL2 directly from the CO. That's why you build VRADs close to the customer. said by tschmidt: Fiber is the only solution for wired broadband. Once installed is is actually cheaper then copper because maintenance costs are much lower. The down side is high up front capital investment that no quarterly profits driven CEO is willing to make. I don't agree and if you're hanging on to the dream of fibre everywhere it'll be just that.. a dream. Even in the countries where people go on about fibre out the ying yang a significant portion of the users if not almost 50% are still receiving Internet via VDSL2. Fibre makes up a very small percentage of the over all broadband market around the world. Trust me I'd love to see fibre everywhere but it is not realistic. Even Verizon with their FiOS did a pretty poor job at it.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 16:36:30 ·
brad join:2007-09-06 Etobicoke, ON	reply to MovieLover76 said by MovieLover76: Yea for real world speeds like that you need fiber, cable can do it downstream now and has to potential with upstream channel bonding to do it up as well. Cable is unlikely to ever see symmetrical speeds or anything close to it. In theory you could do a lot better but the existing legacy services already in use to deliver TV services get in the way. Way down the road when cable providers finally migrate to an IPTV based platform and get rid of digital cable they could do things properly. But that is so far out.
	to forum · permalink · 2013-01-21 16:44:27 ·

FCC 1 Gbps 'Challenge' Just Another Hollow FCC Promise > Sounds like the same old crap.

Re: Sounds like the same old crap.

What about the REST of US,

Re: Sounds like the same old crap.