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El Quintron
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El Quintron to graniterock

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Re: Okay, NOW Wind will definitely be foreign owned

said by graniterock:

If only Wind was able to get some spectrum so that they could offer iPhones they would bet set. It is the one thing that seems to be impeding quite a few people I know.

The upcoming 700Mhz auction will make an iPhone available for them very shortly... they'll basically have both the iPhone and LTE in one fell swoop.

Once this happens we'll be able to speculate a little more about Wind's (and the other new entrants) long term viability.

EQ

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

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To which, full foreign ownership was the only way they would ever have been able to afford to get 700MHz spectrum.

El Quintron
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El Quintron

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said by Gone:

To which, full foreign ownership was the only way they would ever have been able to afford to get 700MHz spectrum.

Fair enough but the auction is set up in such a way that you can't snap up the entire spectrum for any region you're bidding in. This should keep bids, and the prices low seeing as you only get a fixed amount of spectrum no matter how much you bid.
zorxd
join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC

zorxd

Member

said by El Quintron:

Fair enough but the auction is set up in such a way that you can't snap up the entire spectrum for any region you're bidding in. This should keep bids, and the prices low seeing as you only get a fixed amount of spectrum no matter how much you bid.

No company bought the entire AWS spectrum in any region. And I don't think it was allowed either.

Putting too much rules isn't always a good idea either. We must not repeat the mistake which made Shaw and Eastlink to buy spectrum but not using it.

Gone
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Fort Erie, ON

Gone

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said by zorxd:

No company bought the entire AWS spectrum in any region. And I don't think it was allowed either.

Videotron did buy all 40MHz of the new entrant spectrum in Quebec, though. No one else did that. Videotron may as well be part of the Big 3 (or rather, 4), though.

Eastlink is in the process of building their wireless network right now. It was supposed to launch in PEI and NS in 2012 but it's been delayed for whatever reason.

El Quintron
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El Quintron to zorxd

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to zorxd
said by zorxd:

No company bought the entire AWS spectrum in any region. And I don't think it was allowed either.

It was allowed, case and point being Videotron in Quebec as noted earlier.
said by zorxd:

Putting too much rules isn't always a good idea either. We must not repeat the mistake which made Shaw and Eastlink to buy spectrum but not using it.

I agree; spectrum squatting shouldn't be allowed: use it or lose it, no refunds.

I think the current auction is set up as such as well but I can't confirm that for sure.

EQ
zorxd
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Quebec, QC

zorxd to Gone

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to Gone
Videotron bought the spectrum for new entrants (which they got for cheap in many cases, because Wind and Mobilicity didn't bet much) but it was only part of the available spectrum. I don't think they were allowed to buy the whole spectrum.

I agree; spectrum squatting shouldn't be allowed: use it or lose it, no refunds.

That's hard to implement in practice. Should Wind loose 90% of its spectrum since it's not being used?

El Quintron
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El Quintron

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said by zorxd:

That's hard to implement in practice. Should Wind loose 90% of its spectrum since it's not being used?

Wind is using it's spectrum and is in a process of perpetual expansion, no one can argue that. I've been with them since day so I'm witnessing it, the real question is what's an acceptable timetable for expansion?

Wind is in BC, AB, virtually all of Southern Ontario, and this is within 3 years, so the proof's in the pudding as far as I'm concerned.
MaynardKrebs
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MaynardKrebs

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said by El Quintron:

said by zorxd:

That's hard to implement in practice. Should Wind loose 90% of its spectrum since it's not being used?

Wind is using it's spectrum and is in a process of perpetual expansion, no one can argue that. I've been with them since day so I'm witnessing it, the real question is what's an acceptable timetable for expansion?

Wind is in BC, AB, virtually all of Southern Ontario, and this is within 3 years, so the proof's in the pudding as far as I'm concerned.

Wind is supposedly in the midst of a Halifax build now. Has anyone with a Wind phone seen flickers of testing of that on their handsets when out there?
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt

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said by MaynardKrebs:

Wind is supposedly in the midst of a Halifax build now.

Winnipeg too. No official word on either yet, but some Wind towers have been confirmed in Winnipeg.

El Quintron
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El Quintron to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Wind is supposedly in the midst of a Halifax build now. Has anyone with a Wind phone seen flickers of testing of that on their handsets when out there?

Wind is nototrious for activating service without making any official announcements, I was getting service in Barrie for at least 3 months before Wind even acknowleged that they were active there.
MaynardKrebs
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MaynardKrebs

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said by El Quintron:

said by MaynardKrebs:

Wind is supposedly in the midst of a Halifax build now. Has anyone with a Wind phone seen flickers of testing of that on their handsets when out there?

Wind is nototrious for activating service without making any official announcements, I was getting service in Barrie for at least 3 months before Wind even acknowleged that they were active there.

I know the same happened in London/Guelph too.
Better to get the service up and coverage confirmed before taking on new customers.

This is the year that ALL the new entrants have to have their mandated population coverage running in all markets where they bought spectrum. Wind probably could argue for a 6 month 'grace' period due to the delays caused by the legal challenges against them at the outset. Their build-out was placed pretty much on-hold as a result.

El Quintron
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El Quintron

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said by MaynardKrebs:

This is the year that ALL the new entrants have to have their mandated population coverage running in all markets where they bought spectrum.

What exactly does that mean?

Seeing as Wind has spectrum in every province except for QC, are they expected to have service there as well or do some of the "regions" cover more than one provice?

EQ
MaynardKrebs
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MaynardKrebs

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said by El Quintron:

said by MaynardKrebs:

This is the year that ALL the new entrants have to have their mandated population coverage running in all markets where they bought spectrum.

What exactly does that mean?

Seeing as Wind has spectrum in every province except for QC, are they expected to have service there as well or do some of the "regions" cover more than one provice?

EQ

Sorry....my bad...it's 8 years for install targets --- but 5 years for no buyouts by incumbents of new entrants.

It's expressed as a percentage of the population within the areas covered by the spectrum purchase, and an assessment of whether the holder is squatting on unused spectrum.

Competition Principles: Promoting a Competitive Post-Auction Marketplace
»strategis.ic.gc.ca/eic/s ··· 626.html
In an effort to ensure that social and economic benefits are maximized from the use of the radio frequency spectrum, it will be important that licensees operate in a competitive marketplace post-auction. Measures available to the government to promote a competitive post-auction marketplace include restricting the participation of certain entities in an auction and/or placing limits on the amount of spectrum that any one entity may hold by using spectrum set-asides or spectrum aggregation limits. Industry Canada will consider the two guiding principles outlined below in choosing when and how to impose pro-competitive measures.

Principle 1: Restricting Participation in the Wireless Market

Industry Canada may decide that an entity that currently provides telecommunications services should be restricted from holding certain licences if:

(a) the entity possesses market power in the supply of one or more telecommunications services in a region covered by the licence to be auctioned;
(b) a new entrant is likely to use the licence to provide services in competition with the entity’s existing services; and
(c) the anti-competitive effects of the entity acquiring a licence are not outweighed by the potential economies of scope arising from the integration of the spectrum in question into the entity’s existing network.

Principle 2: Spectrum Aggregation Limits

It is the view of Industry Canada that, when multiple licences for the use of spectrum in a given geographic area are auctioned, and when these can be used to provide closely substitutable service, aggregation limits may be required on the amount of spectrum that any single bidder is allowed to acquire so as to ensure competitive markets. Spectrum aggregation limits may be imposed in the following circumstances:

(a) a bidder that acquires an amount of spectrum beyond a certain level would not face effective competition from providers of closely substitutable services; and
(b) the anti-competitive effects arising from the acquisition of an amount of spectrum beyond a certain level by a single bidder would not be offset by lower prices or higher valued services resulting from a single entity holding this amount of spectrum.

Roll-out Obligations, Licence Term and Renewal
»strategis.ic.gc.ca/eic/s ··· 997.html
Roll-out obligations are normally used to ensure that the spectrum is used and to deter access to the spectrum either for speculation without use, or spectrum warehousing with no specific use intended. Roll-out obligations have been used in previous licensing processes. A further purpose of roll-out obligations may be to encourage the delivery of service in all regions of Canada.

Taking into account the overall policy framework for this auction, and the stated intentions of both incumbents and new entrants, the department is of the view that specific roll-out obligations are appropriate only in relation to roaming provisions for national new entrants. Allowing general flexibility in this respect will enable winning bidders to respond to market factors in determining infrastructure build-out decisions. Nonetheless, the department will take into account the roll-out targets in Annex 2, both in considering eventual renewal of AWS licences as discussed below and in considering any application from a national new entrant for extension of in-territory roaming beyond the initial 5 years.

The AWS licences will be issued for a 10-year term similar to other spectrum licences. AWS licence renewal will be subject to a public consultation process initiated in year eight, as proposed in the AWS consultation paper. The nature and details of this process will be developed through a separate consultation to be initiated by the department in the context of the Framework for Spectrum Auctions in Canada. The renewal process developed through that consultation may apply to all auctioned licences, including AWS.

The renewal process, which will form the basis of the follow-up consultation, will include consideration of:

the extent of geographic coverage across the licensed area;
whether there is interest in the licence from other parties;
whether licence fees should apply for a subsequent licence term; and
whether renewal in whole or in part supports the orderly development of radiocommunication in light of the policy objectives of the Telecommunications Act given known future factors, pressures and the spectrum environment.

Beyond consideration of the above factors, other reasons for non or partial renewal may include:

a fundamental reallocation of spectrum to a new service is required;
an overriding policy need or spectrum management concern arises;
national security, treaty or other international obligations or requirements;
a breach of licence condition;
the spectrum has not been deployed, or not sufficiently deployed over the licensed area;
whether there is interest from others for access to the spectrum; and
other relevant factors which might be raised in the public consultation.
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt to El Quintron

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to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

Seeing as Wind has spectrum in every province except for QC, are they expected to have service there as well or do some of the "regions" cover more than one provice?

The regions are much smaller than that, but some do cover more than one province. The Ottawa region includes Gatineau, for example, so Wind and Mobilicity do actually have service in one small sliver of Quebec.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
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MaynardKrebs to El Quintron

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to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

EQ

Here's some more on the upcoming 700MHz auction............

»www.parl.gc.ca/Content/L ··· 16-e.htm

"The 700 MHz spectrum band is considered "beachfront property." That is, this low-frequency spectrum offers significant improvements in download speeds; better penetration of buildings and other obstacles; and wider coverage, important in addressing the digital divide between rural and urban Canadians.

Hence, this auction will shape the near future of Canada’s wireless services."

......

"Given the occasionally conflicting demands it faced regarding this auction, the government has established the following objectives: sustaining increased competition, which the new entrants in the AWS auction had introduced to the industry; promoting continued investment and innovation that the incumbents, by their size, brought to the industry; and making AWS available to all Canadians.

A backgrounder issued at the time of the announcement listed four measures chosen to balance demands and meet the government’s objectives:

Foreign investment restrictions will be lifted for companies that have less than a 10 percent share of the telecommunications market, promoting competition by improving new wireless entrants' access to capital.
Caps in upcoming spectrum auctions will effectively ensure that new wireless entrants and regional providers have access to prime spectrum.
Tower sharing and roaming policies will be improved and extended.
Obligations will be imposed on 700 MHz spectrum licence holders to see advanced wireless services quickly delivered to rural Canadians.


Companies that acquire spectrum at these auctions will not be able to sell their licences to other providers for five years. This measure promotes competition and prevents consolidation in the industry in the short term."


If Wind sticks around and they nab a large chunk of the reserved for newbie's 700MHz spectrum cheaply, I can see them @ 3MM+ subscribers in 4-5 years.

El Quintron
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El Quintron

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said by MaynardKrebs:

If Wind sticks around and they nab a large chunk of the reserved for newbie's 700MHz spectrum cheaply, I can see them @ 3MM+ subscribers in 4-5 years.

Yup, 700Mhz Spectrum + Next iPhone, more spectrum efficiency they'll make a killing.

I think Sawiris/Orascom/Vipelcom are bluffing when they're stating they intend to leave the market, it does two things:

1) It forces the government to offer them concessions to keep them in the market,

2) It encourages the worse type of behavior from the incumbents because they think the competiton ain't here to stay. Which is good for Wind.