Topic 'Premiers agree on bulk drug buying' in forum 'Canadian Chat' - dslreports.com

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:42:59 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by elwoodblues:

Good luck getting that changed, no matter what your politics

sadly, you're right.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:40:29 EDT

elwoodblues posted : Good luck getting that changed, no matter what your politics

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:34:30 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by elwoodblues:

That's the rub, if I don't need that copier this year, I'll lose that money, and will never get one.

Government accounting.

i know that...that's my point...it shouldn't be that way.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:27:45 EDT

elwoodblues posted : That's the rub, if I don't need that copier this year, I'll lose that money, and will never get one.

Government accounting.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:58:28 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by DKS:

In order to take care of education, health and debt, proper tools are needed.

i agree...what isn't needed is millions (likely hundreds of millions) spent on closets full of crap just to empty the coffers at year end.

say, at the end of the year, do you drain the Church's bank account??...what about your own personal account??...of course not, because that is ludicrous, yet SOP here...it should stop, immediately (and i've been saying that for years).
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:58:14 EDT

corster posted :

said by DKS:

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by DKS:

Which is why you get the March blitz.

imagine if our tax dollars were actually spent on things like education, health care or our debt, instead of going towards March Blitz...it's a shame.

In order to take care of education, health and debt, proper tools are needed.

BTW, Ontario's debt dropped nearly $3 billion in 2012.

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s···cit.html

No, it increased by nearly $12 billion in 2012.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:54:01 EDT

corster posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

of course, one possibility could be they lease the machines with a service contract...that way, they pay a monthly fee for use of the machine, and if there is a problem, a guy comes out right away to fix or replace it...that's how most companies i worked at did it.

Many Federal Gov't Departments do exactly that these days.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:52:15 EDT

Guspaz posted : Debt and deficit are completely different things... Their deficit (how much they spent beyond what they have) dropped by $2.9 billion, but they're still $11.9 billion in the red.

That means their debt should increase by $11.9 billion. Not decrease.

Ontario's debt is currently $273.5 Billion.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:41:30 EDT

DKS posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by DKS:

Which is why you get the March blitz.

imagine if our tax dollars were actually spent on things like education, health care or our debt, instead of going towards March Blitz...it's a shame.

In order to take care of education, health and debt, proper tools are needed.

BTW, Ontario's debt dropped nearly $3 billion in 2012.

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s···cit.html
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:53:56 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by DKS:

Which is why you get the March blitz.

imagine if our tax dollars were actually spent on things like education, health care or our debt, instead of going towards March Blitz...it's a shame.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:08:37 EDT

DKS posted :

said by elwoodblues:

Frankly that's just wrong, to me it's not right that you get penalized for being a good money manager.

The other problem is that the government may approve funding, but until the funding letter has arrived, there is no authority to spend it. Funding letters can take up to a year to arrive and usually arrive a couple of days before the end of the fiscal year. Which is why you get the March blitz.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:05:45 EDT

DKS posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by DKS:

Which can take months. But an office needs a copier today.

and that happens in the real world, likely every day.

of course, one possibility could be they lease the machines with a service contract...that way, they pay a monthly fee for use of the machine, and if there is a problem, a guy comes out right away to fix or replace it...that's how most companies i worked at did it.

And that is the way it is most often done. But not always and not with all equipment.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:07:09 EDT

elwoodblues posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by DKS:

Which can take months. But an office needs a copier today.

Leasing makes the most sense, except that the many of these copier leases require you to buy their supplies from the vendor (at inflated prices) .
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Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:05:44 EDT

elwoodblues posted : The problem DJ is that it's not the surplus, if you're a good manager and save money, you get burned.

When I had my Shack store on Avenue Rd I witnessed what they called March madness, first hand. Various government departments would go nuts spending the last penny of their budgets on computer equipment, even though they didn't need it.

Frankly that's just wrong, to me it's not right that you get penalized for being a good money manager.
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Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:03:43 EDT

elwoodblues posted :

said by peterboro:

said by elwoodblues:

Now the flip side of the deal, we still pay too much for prescription medication.

Then why, pray tell, do busloads of Americans have medication excursions to Canada?

Because we're still cheaper then the Americans, they pay some of the highest drug prices in the world. Dubya created a law during his term to prevent Medicare from negotiating for the price of drugs.
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Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:02:40 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by DKS:

Which can take months. But an office needs a copier today.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:51:55 EDT

DKS posted :

said by BigSensFan:

Which can take months. But an office needs a copier today.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:51:01 EDT

DKS posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by peterboro:

said by dirtyjeffer:

...if they need a copier, then buy one...

I believe that was addressed by DKS.

i already said i understand the current process...it is the current process that is costing us a fortune in waste...my point is, it needs to be like i suggested...if you don't need a copier, don't buy one, if you do, then buy one...either the money is saved and can pay down our debt, or surpluses could be split (50% to debt, 50% to programs)...that was my point.

Government will not do that. Hardware, once it is worn out, is not fundable again. This results in a significant amount of ingenuity by staff to make things happen in a timely manner. I could tell you a few stories.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:53:32 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by BigSensFan:

exactly...that's my point...the system itself is designed to waste money...with escalating budgets and increasing debt/deficits, we should be focused on cutting waste.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:18:08 EDT

BigSensFan posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by peterboro:

said by dirtyjeffer:

...if they need a copier, then buy one...

I believe that was addressed by DKS.

IMO there should be a minimum office budget for each department then a general budget for office equipment canada wide... to access the canada wide budget for office equipment you must show that you need the item and it must be approved
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"The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:08:42 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by peterboro:

said by dirtyjeffer:

...if they need a copier, then buy one...

I believe that was addressed by DKS.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:04:49 EDT

peterboro posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

...if they need a copier, then buy one...

I believe that was addressed by DKS.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:59:54 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by DKS:

Actually, the reason for that practice is that if the copier breaks down and has to be replaced, if they don't have one at hand, the WON'T get a copier, period. The government claws back unused funds and then reduces the budget for the coming year and will absolutely NEVER increase funding. It's not waste, but survival.

oh, i know WHY they do it, but that doesn't mean it is right...if they need a copier, then buy one...if you don't, don't spend the money...that is the whole point about "government waste"...a few million dollars wasted in office equipment that isn't needed could have been better spent in mental health programs (for example).
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:03:16 EDT

J E F F posted : Problem always boils down to self-interest within each province.

Would be nice though if everyone (and Quebec) could be on the same page.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:47:08 EDT

peterboro posted :

said by elwoodblues:

Now the flip side of the deal, we still pay too much for prescription medication.

Then why, pray tell, do busloads of Americans have medication excursions to Canada?

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:35:33 EDT

IamGimli posted :

said by elwoodblues:

Why don't they create a "buying group" that uses the power of 9 provinces (Quebec will no doubt not particpate) and 3 territories to get not just prescription medication, but medical equipment.

Qu�bec doesn't participate because:

A: It has a provincial drug insurance plan; and
B: It has already legislated that generic drug manufacturers cannot sell their drugs to the provincial drug insurance plan at a higher price than the lowest price offered anywhere else in Canada.

So even though Qu�bec did not participate in this specific working group it still sees the benefits.

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:28:00 EDT

DKS posted :

said by dirtyjeffer:

one of my coworkers used to work for a photocopier company, and when touring the government buildings, there was a storage room, full of brand new machines, just sitting there collecting dust...they were purchased because they had money left at year end and didn't want to lose the funding for the next fiscal year...so instead of saving money, they spent a couple million dollars on a room full of high end machines they not only didn't need, they weren't even being used (they were all still brand new in the box).

Re: Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:24:53 EDT

dirtyjeffer posted :

said by elwoodblues:

If Canada combined is going to buy say 100 MRI machines in 2013 , well instead of dropping down to the lowest level (hospital) , let the buying group put out a tender for those 100 machines. Think of the money you could save?

agreed...many smaller retailers are part of a buying group so they can compete with the big box stores...it just makes sense...of course, businesses are often more concerned about getting a better control on costs than government, where it doesn't really matter how much stuff costs, so they can always say they "don't have enough funding" in order to continue to get more...there is really no incentive to save...one of my coworkers used to work for a photocopier company, and when touring the government buildings, there was a storage room, full of brand new machines, just sitting there collecting dust...they were purchased because they had money left at year end and didn't want to lose the funding for the next fiscal year...so instead of saving money, they spent a couple million dollars on a room full of high end machines they not only didn't need, they weren't even being used (they were all still brand new in the box).
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Premiers agree on bulk drug buying

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:59:00 EDT

elwoodblues posted : While it's inherently political, there is no finger pointing of any party to be had here, it covers all political spectrums.

Nine provinces and all the territories (Quebec is not participating.. surprise surprise) have come to an agreement on cutting the cost of generic prescription drugs, by pegging the price at 18% of the brand name price.

They anticipate that it will save about $100m in health care costs.

Several Canadian provinces and territories have reached a deal to team up when purchasing certain generic drugs, a cost-saving step for governments looking to rein in soaring healthcare costs but one pharmacists warn could hurt patient care.
The deal, announced Friday, stems from a premiers’ working group led by Prince Edward Island’s Robert Ghiz and Saskatchewan’s Brad Wall. It includes all territories and nine Canadian provinces – Quebec isn’t participating – and covers six widely used generic drugs.

Now the flip side of the deal, we still pay too much for prescription medication.

The changes are a good first step, but Canada still pays far more than many countries for generic drugs because of its archaic drug buying system, said Michael Law, a University of British Columbia professor who researches pharmaceutical policy.
“To be honest, I think the only thing that stood in the way of getting the prices lower was political will. I think we’d developed a system where we were systematically overpaying for generic drugs,” Prof. Law said in an interview. Governments still don’t put drug contracts out to tender, he said. For example, even at the new rate of 18 per cent, Canada still pays 10 times as much money for 20 mg of Atorvastatin – one of six drugs included in the new deal – as New Zealand.

I fail to understand why they provinces can't get their act together. If the Feds want out of health care and simply want to "cut a cheque", fine, it's a provincial problem just the same.

Why don't they create a "buying group" that uses the power of 9 provinces (Quebec will no doubt not particpate) and 3 territories to get not just prescription medication, but medical equipment.

If Canada combined is going to buy say 100 MRI machines in 2013 , well instead of dropping down to the lowest level (hospital) , let the buying group put out a tender for those 100 machines. Think of the money you could save?

LINK
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No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......