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horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

[Voip.ms] porting land-line number from verizon

i am trying to port my land line number away from verizon to voip.ms and am having problems.
according to voip.ms:

We have been given more information regarding this rejection: "Rejected by Verizon: LNP requests with multiple BTNs not eligible for UNE in state: NY". Actually, this is the second rejection of this type we have seen. It may be a new thing with Verizon. They're stating that there are multiple BTNs listed on the account and that is what is preventing the port. Please contact them to clarify this rejection so we may continue with the porting request.

LNP? UNE?
of course, voip.ms have no such thing as telephone support (odd for a telephone service provider, voip or otherwise), so this is all via email.
they have claimed this exact thing twice.

according to verizon, there is nothing on my account that would prevent the number from being ported away.
they have indicated the account has only one BTN and that it is a stand alone number - not being billed together with another number.
in fact, they state there is not even a record of a port request on my account at any time.

so: what's really going on?
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

more feedback from voip.ms:

Thank you for contacting Verizon. However, it is important to note that we have been porting many numbers from Verizon for a long time, they are one of the top most uncooperative carriers.

They might act good to the customer but the estate rejections to our carrier for many reasons. There is no reason why our carrier should not send the order to Verizon if that is what is on the bill.

Also, the rejection Cannot come from our carrier, we wish to have your number with us as much as you do so there is no reason why we nor our carrier should reject the port or send it incorrectly when we have been doing this for a long time.

If the losing carrier rejected this order for partial port, it is important to submit the proper information that lists that this is not a partial port and that the BTN submitted is the correct one, we can do this by having the CSR copy which can only be given by Verizon to the customer. The CSR lists the number to port and its information along with the BTN. Verizon HAS given this information to their customers in the past, it cannot be given to anyone else since any other person is the owner of the account, not the gaining carrier.

Also, carriers usually do not save records of rejected orders so obviously they will not see our carrier's order.
Please obtain this information and we will be happy to resubmit this order.

does anyone know what the "proper information" is that voip.ms is requesting?
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."

engineerdan

join:2006-12-07
Manassas, VA

said by VoIP.ms :

... we can do this by having the CSR copy which can only be given by Verizon to the customer. The CSR lists the number to port and its information along with the BTN. Verizon HAS given this information to their customers in the past, it cannot be given to anyone else since any other person is the owner of the account, not the gaining carrier.

By my read, they're asking you for a copy of your CSR, or Customer Service Record.


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

i called verizon yesterday and spoke with about 10 people.
nobody there claims to know what a customer service record is.

one person indicated that they can write me a letter with my account, btns, services, etc.

i am hoping that is sufficient.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."



Larry Hawkin

@anonymouse.org

said by horacebork:

i called verizon yesterday and spoke with about 10 people. nobody there claims to know what a customer service record is.

Verizon surely does have customer service records.

If you call Verizon and seem to be talking to fools, politely hang up and keep calling back at one-hour intervals. You will eventually reach someone competent.

Here is proof from Verizon itself as to a cust. service record:
»www22.verizon.com/wholesale/glos···e_record


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
reply to horacebork

CSR??

Is that sort of like sending a recent invoice like we do for CallCentric ports?



XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·flowroute
·Comcast
·voip.ms
·Callcentric

said by VexorgTR:

CSR??

Is that sort of like sending a recent invoice like we do for CallCentric ports?

A bill is not sufficient when porting away from POTS in most cases... It also depends on the carrier you are porting away from so don't start your bs.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

CSR??

Is that sort of like sending a recent invoice like we do for CallCentric ports?

No, it's a much more detailed and to-the-point report that provides exactly every detail that's needed for a LNP request.
--
I represent AcroVoice, a full service Canadian VoIP Provider.
Buy your Obihai ATA shipped from within Canada.

MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium,VIP
join:2008-07-21
kudos:3
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

CSR??

Is that sort of like sending a recent invoice like we do for CallCentric ports?

CSR is required when the invoice port failed. We do in fact, require just a recent invoice like Call Centric does. That's all we ask for if you took a second to check our customer portal. However, a small % fails, and some carriers are more of a PITA than others.

Now, we'll try to keep this thread on track, shall we? Good. I never understood why when a provider is having difficulty with a specific port, despite the fact they have ported tens of thousands of numbers, that some VoIP newbies automatically assume that the problematic party is the new carrier, instead of the losing carrier. Ahh..

--
Martin - VoiP.ms


Balanced2

@verizon.net

1 edit
reply to XCOM

totally false

it IS sufficient and for example we ported home POTS numbers to CallCentric from the biggest land line ma bell carrier in the US



Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6

said by Balanced2 :

totally false

it IS sufficient and for example we ported home POTS numbers to CallCentric from the biggest land line ma bell carrier in the US

Which provider do you work for? How many ports have you been involved with?

An invoice is usually sufficient for simple ports, and sometimes for more complex ports. When the losing carrier wants to play hardball, however, the CSR is the answer to force them to comply.
--
I represent AcroVoice, a full service Canadian VoIP Provider.
Buy your Obihai ATA shipped from within Canada.
Expand your moderator at work


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
reply to horacebork

Re: [Voip.ms] porting land-line number from verizon

Fair enough.

I'm used to Porting numbers away for Time Warner, Centurylink, ATT, and WowWay.

I figure everyone has a protocol. Normally the Authorization form and a recent invoice does it..



horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

3 edits
reply to MartinM

not sure really who to reply to .. =)

this is still a 'he said she said' thing. voip.ms claims that their carrier cannot proceed without the csr: they cannot make the port actually occur. verizon is resolute in their stance that they have no idea what a csr is.

voip.ms claims that verizon is telling them that there are multiple btns on the account and that verizon can't do a 'partial port'. verizon looks at my account and says there is one btn on my account and no other services like dsl, wireless, tv or anything. verizon techs (several of them) have claimed that there is nothing on this account that would prevent it from being ported. someone is definitely being deceitful and frankly, i'm confused as to who.

called the fcc about this issue and *they* don't even know what a csr is. the lady didn't even know what a "partial port" is. just had me file a claim to have them release my phone number on a port request.

i'm suspicious of verizon if only for one thing: every time i ask (anyone - different person each time) to provide a csr for me, they uniformly ask me: "what would you like on the csr?" so far, not a single person i have spoken to has omitted asking me this question. it's just a little too suspicious. sounds like training to me.

however, i am definitely on the short end of the stick. i don't know enough. i'm trying to talk to sensible people at verizon. this person does not seem to exist. one person seemed to come close by stating: "we have your record here on our computer, but we cannot give you that information. we can read it off the screen, but cannot provide you with a printed report."

that's almost proof that they *do* in-fact know what a csr is .. they just don't want to give it to me.

if anyone has a good 'script' or how to find the right kind of person in the right department, i would be very grateful.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."



horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

..I figure everyone has a protocol. Normally the Authorization form and a recent invoice does it..

what is this authorization form? does verizon provide a form that i can fill out for them to permit the port?

--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to Trev

said by Trev:

...
An invoice is usually sufficient for simple ports, and sometimes for more complex ports. When the losing carrier wants to play hardball, however, the CSR is the answer to force them to comply.

which again gets me back to: how can i get verizon to 1) acknowledge that there is such a thing as a csr and 2) provide a copy of this report to me.

they constantly ask me what is on the csr, and then state that the bill has exactly all the information i am requesting. the links given above by larry hawkin and engineerdan are good links. when i read the information provided on those links to the person at verizon, they calmly state that all this information is on the bill.

it's all very circular, but verizon support is stalwart and resolute.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to Larry Hawkin

said by Larry Hawkin :

If you call Verizon and seem to be talking to fools, politely hang up and keep calling back at one-hour intervals. You will eventually reach someone competent.

i wish that were true. how many times should i call back? 20? 40? this is almost laughable at this point.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


Bhutan Bob

@optonline.net
reply to horacebork

said by horacebork:

what is this authorization form? does verizon provide a form that i can fill out for them to permit the port?

1) No, there is no form from Verizon. You fill out forms for the new carrier.

2) Part of the problem here is that you are trying to do work normally done by the CLEC that works for your desired new VoIP provider.

3) If you do have to talk to Verizon yourself, you need to be polite but firm. Explain that you have made many calls already, ask that the problem be "escalated" to a "Level 2" supervisor or words to that effect. You have to say escalated. Or you can ask to speak to the team that handles "LNP" or "number porting".

4) Are you registered on Verizon's website? You can probably print off a lot of your account data from the Verizon website. It may be enough.

5) If all else fails, go to the FCC website and file a porting complaint with the FCC, against Verizon.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·voip.ms
·Rogers Hi-Speed

1 edit
reply to Trev

said by Trev:

said by Balanced2 :

totally false

it IS sufficient and for example we ported home POTS numbers to CallCentric from the biggest land line ma bell carrier in the US

Which provider do you work for? How many ports have you been involved with?

An invoice is usually sufficient for simple ports, and sometimes for more complex ports. When the losing carrier wants to play hardball, however, the CSR is the answer to force them to comply.

Yep, that's all I had to do. I sent a scan of my most recent invoice with my signature on it, and the port went ahead without any problems, port was done in the expected timeframe.
Expand your moderator at work


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to Bhutan Bob

Re: [Voip.ms] porting land-line number from verizon

said by Bhutan Bob :

1) No, there is no form from Verizon. You fill out forms for the new carrier.

right. done that.

said by Bhutan Bob :

2) Part of the problem here is that you are trying to do work normally done by the CLEC that works for your desired new VoIP provider.

right. wouldn'ta even tried 'cept voip.ms said that without me asking them to obtain something from verizon, they couldn't proceed with the port.

said by Bhutan Bob :

3) If you do have to talk to Verizon yourself, you need to be polite but firm. Explain that you have made many calls already, ask that the problem be "escalated" to a "Level 2" supervisor or words to that effect. You have to say escalated. Or you can ask to speak to the team that handles "LNP" or "number porting".

i'll give that a try tomorrow. can't wait. %-}

said by Bhutan Bob :

4) Are you registered on Verizon's website? You can probably print off a lot of your account data from the Verizon website. It may be enough.

yes. i am looking at it right now. not sure what information i could save from this site that would help voip.ms. it's all broken down into glacially-paced screen fades and popups. neat. if there is a concise 'report' of services page, i'm not sure where it is.

said by Bhutan Bob :

5) If all else fails, go to the FCC website and file a porting complaint with the FCC, against Verizon.

done. they will send it to verizon so it can get buried in peat moss for a few months before being recycled into lighters. (badly plagiarized).
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

1 edit
reply to MichelR

said by MichelR:

Yep, that's all I had to do. I sent a scan of my most recent invoice with my signature on it, and the port went ahead without any problems, port was done in the expected timeframe.

this is *exactly* what i sent in to voip.ms to initiate the port request. they have tried the port a few times and so far, nothing has happened except sending me a bunch of cryptic, techno-jargon emails from voip.ms stating i have to get verizon to send me a csr or add another btn to my account or some other such mumbo jumbo. verizon says my number can be ported from my account without any problems.

someone is issuing static. i still don't know who, just yet. i suspect verizon at this point.

if there is a simple way to get this done, i have not discovered it.
shoulda already been did by now.

--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."


Bhutan Bob

@optonline.net
reply to horacebork

Actually, the FCC does take an interest in number porting complaints. Nothing can be guaranteed, but it is worth doing, they have stepped in sometimes.

Regarding the Verizon Website, it couldn't hurt to send a support request to them by e-mail or by live chat.

Try live chat first, if they are fools too you can always try e-mail. It's all under Support....Contact.

Verizon has many different geographic divisions and different lines of business. Nevertheless, here is a sample of a Customer Service Record right from a Verizon website:

(Word 97-03 DOC document)
»www22.verizon.com/wholesale/atta···NE_P.doc



horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

the chat was fruitless. with the direct link you provided the person gave me the typical response, then was adamant. below is the transcript. should i expect anything different from email support at this point? i have no confidence that verizon can or will send me a csr.

Your Question:i need help obtaining my csr (customer service record)
[deleted information about account number, etc.]
Stephen(09:24:33): You can view your records online at www.verizon.com
horacebork(09:24:54): where is the link to my csr?
Stephen(09:25:29): You will probably find most items you need under the profile page. What exactly are you looking for.
horacebork(09:25:59): the customer service record report. verizon has an example of this report on their
website: »www22.verizon.com/wholesale/atta···NE_P.doc
Stephen(09:26:34): That looks like billing information
Stephen(09:26:44): You have the ability to download your online bill [.. nonsense about online bill deleted ..]
horacebork(09:27:03): it looks like a report to me. it's not like any bill i have seen. i already have my bill
Stephen(09:28:51): Reviewing it further, that looks like some basic codes for one of our systems.
Stephen(09:29:01): You do not have access to it. Sorry about that.
horacebork(09:30:16): the customer service record isn't proprietary, is it? it looks like information that's relating to my account.
Stephen(09:30:36): Sure the records in our database it is.
horacebork(09:31:11): ok. maybe the record itself is, but the paper print out can be sent to me.
Stephen(09:31:32): Nope sorry.
Stephen(09:33:16): Sorry I cannot help you with that.
Stephen(09:33:27): All set for now?
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."



horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

2 edits
reply to horacebork

i am being asked by voip.ms:

"Also, please remember that the rejection our carrier was given is as follows: Since this is a partial port and the telephone number to be ported is also the BTN (billing telephone number), a new BTN will need to be established before the order can be submitted. Please contact your current carrier to assign the new BTN and respond to this ticket with what the new BTN will be."

so my question is how can i say 'please assign a new btn to my account' but use normal consumer vocabulary? i don't want to make them get all defensive and ask all sorts of strange questions like 'why do you want this?'

also, does this mean i am going to be adding some cost to my bill?
i suppose that's ok since i'm gonna drop verizon like a hot potato as soon as the port is complete.
i just want this port to happen at this point.
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."



Bhutan Bob

@optonline.net

said by horacebork:

"Also, please remember that the rejection our carrier was given is as follows: Since this is a partial port and the telephone number to be ported is also the BTN (billing telephone number), a new BTN will need to be established before the order can be submitted. Please contact your current carrier to assign the new BTN and respond to this ticket with what the new BTN will be."

so my question is how can i say 'please assign a new btn to my account' but use normal consumer vocabulary? i don't want to make them get all defensive and ask all sorts of strange questions like 'why do you want this?'

Well, on that specific point Verizon is right.

Rather than port out all of your Verizon numbers (complete port) you are only porting out one (partial port).

And that's fine, except that the number you want to port is the MAIN number on the account---the Billing Telephone Number (BTN).

Because you still are keeping some other Verizon numbers, Verizon naturally needs to know which of THOSE numbers should now be designated as the BTN.

Your choices are:

1) Make it a complete port, not a partial port.

OR

2) Explain to Verzion that you want to port the specific number away as a partial port, so that you need the BTN to be changed on your Verizon account. There's no dishonor in porting, and you will need to be upfront about it.

I was otherwise going to suggest that you see if FutureNine or CallCentric could get your port done, but frankly they are not going to have any better luck because of this BTN situation.

Again, Verzion has a point because you wanted to port out the BTN while leaving other numbers intact. That probably created this whole mess, and created the request for the CSR.

MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium,VIP
join:2008-07-21
kudos:3
reply to horacebork

It seem to me from reading the thread that you're trying to port one of your numbers from them (Partial Port), and the number is the Main number that is also used as the BILLING number for your Verizon Account, and becasue you're not porting them all, they need to assign a new main number and billing number.

They are complicating things due to their policy but it seem to me that's the only thing that needs to be done for this to complete.
--
Martin - VoiP.ms


Mango
What router are you using?
Premium
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:13
Reviews:
·AcroVoice
·Callcentric
·Anveo
·Shaw
reply to horacebork

said by horacebork:

i'm gonna drop verizon like a hot potato as soon as the port is complete.

said by horacebork:

verizon looks at my account and says there is one btn on my account and no other services like dsl, wireless, tv or anything.

Just to clarify, what are you going to drop as soon as the port is complete? By definition, completing the port means you drop your landline service. Do you have any other landlines or ANYTHING with Verizon?


horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms

mango

i really appreciate you helping to delve into the problem. one-by-one:

1. i will drop *all*verizon*service* as soon as the port is complete. they have been nothing but a headache from the start.

2. i have *no*other*landlines or ANYTHING with verizon. used to have dsl, and that was dropped 2 years hence. the *only* thing i send *any* money to verizon for is my *single* land line.

(#2 is the crux of the problems: voip.ms' carrier claims verizon is telling them this is a partial port and they won't have a btn if they port this number away. verizon tells *me* there is only the single land line number and it can be ported at any time.)
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."



horacebork
Premium
join:2011-03-17
09001
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·voip.ms
reply to horacebork

**update**

just received this from voip.ms:

'We have contacted our carrier many times and we were given the following message: "We are currently in the process of disputing this rejection with Verizon. We were able to see the CSR information and have provided that in our dispute. Please standby. Thank you for your patience."
Please reply if by next week you have received no updates regarding this, we will be happy to follow up.'

.. so the carrier for voip.ms got *their* hands on a csr (?)
now how in blazes could *they* get ahold of it when i am turned away at every point?

if this works, tho, i'm not gonna get testy over it =)
just count my lucky stars that it happened at all!
--
".. the sofa has just vanished." ".. well, that's one mystery less."