Topic '[Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.' in forum 'Comcast HSI' - dslreports.com

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:12:16 EDT

anon posted : Well, that may or may not be true, but since the first two guys were out to fix things wouldn't it make sense for them to fix the port? Why did he have to do it if they know more, etc?

BTW, he used the terms ingress and egress and said the only problem he detected was the leak from the port not being capped. He said aside from that problem, which they should have fixed, there were no other issues.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:14:30 EDT

anon posted : The guy who come to your home was a service technician looking for signal leakage. The two technicians before was probably maintenance technicians looking for ingress, noise on the return patch. If somebody don't know what he's talking about, it's probably the service technician, even if he think he knows.

Anyway, just plug back your router and if the two guys come back to disconnect your Internet connection, you will know your router is causing problem on the cable plant.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 04:39:03 EDT

anon posted : The guy who came out tonight took out his hand held scanner, ran it and said there was a leak caused by a port not being capped off. He waved it back and forth and the thing started going crazy. He said they should have fixed it when they came out and said they didn't know what they were talking about. He then fixed it, ran his gadget again and it didn't beep off or anything.

He asked if there were splitters in the home and I told him no because there aren't any. We went to where the cable box is and he checked all of that and it was good. So we went back out, he checked everything one more time, assured me there was **no leaking or noise** and said if someone ever comes out again to get their name.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:14:23 EDT

anon posted : Your router probably cause noise on the cable node, if you plug it back, they will know, cause noise is monitored, and they know it is coming from your house now. If you're lucky, they will maybe knock at your door again, maybe just put a filter at the pole to shutdown the noise and your Internet connection.

Most CSR and people here on the Internet who never worked in catv plant maintenance know nothing about that...

Copied from a catv technical forum about this subject :

Wireless Router (non-modem) causing FEC Alarm/Corrected Packets...
« on: February 16, 2012, 03:00:19 PM »

I just finished an interesting one...

We have had an upstream port on the 10k that has been alarming for FEC Corrected on and off for about a week. This upstream port is shared by seven relatively small nodes (I think there are 200 modems total.)

I was never able to catch any noise in the return spectrum when viewing it live and the historical charts didn't show any either. Went to the hub today when it was in alarm and started at the return combiner for that port and pulled the pad for each node while watching a live poll of the FEC. (It polls the FEC Corrected/Uncorrected once a second for 60 seconds.) Did this under the radar because...well... it's daytime and a no-no LOL. But we isolated it to a node... tracked it out in the field the same way, one watching hte live poll and another guy pulling pads. Chasing the direction that drops the corrected count to 0.

Track it to a shitty trailer park of course... next to last tap in the run and into the house.

It ended up being the customers wireless router. I had a tech come out and swap the modem just to be sure; but when you plug this guys router in the activity went crazy and you instantly see corrected packets on the 10k port. (Anywhere between 5-40%). We tried his xbox and PC plugged in to the modem directly and no problem at all...

I've had a bad modem cause it before; but never a wireless router that wasn't hooked into the plant.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:35:36 EDT

PeteC2 posted :

said by Gyp Thompson :

@ExoticFish, why not? Is there a thread here where I can read about this modem? Or do you mind explaining it to me?

If I may detail that advice a bit further?

Comcast does not supply any customer routers (anymore), rather they can supply you with a wireless gateway. Folks will tell you (endlessly!) about these devices being notoriously poor, and they are correct.

What compounds these modem/router combo units is that Comcast controls the firmware, including which user-features are accessible to you. You are infinitely better served by a cable modem (or emta modem in case of phone service) and a quality stand alone router.

I really am not sure that your Cisco E2500 is the culprit or not...but at the same time, from a peace of mind point of view, perhaps a new router would not be an unreasonable purchase, but I would absolutely recommend against getting a wireless gateway.
--
Deeds, not words

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:34:55 EDT

anon posted : But in my case they never knocked.

@ harald, I understand what you're saying about the code issue. Comcast did it that way years ago. The house was made in the late sixties. Yes, the equipment is plugged into properly-grounded outlets.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:58:19 EDT

gar187er posted : techs knock on doors all the time. either let them in, or you will get shut off.
--
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Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:08:39 EDT

IowaCowboy posted : My drop is underground and it goes from the ped to the back of the house and then it goes inside and back to the front where the electrical panel is. It is grounded at the electric panel.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:59:01 EDT

harald posted :

said by Gyp Thomson :

Internet is upstairs and cable tv service is upstairs and downstairs. On one side of the house is the cable box. On the other side of the house is my breaker. Years ago comcast had to hook the wires up under my roof, from the side where the cable box is to the side where the breaker is because they said CA law requires. BTW, I'm in the Bay Area of California. My apologies for not providing this info in my previous post.

This is an electrical code issue. The cable must be grounded to the same ground as the elctrical service, and the cable box must be located there. Sounds like something is out of whack here.

How old is your house? Is your equipment plugged into properly-grounded outlets?

Regardless of what terminology they used, the Comcast guys are looking for ingress into the cable system or egress from it. The former because it messes up their system, the latter because it violates federal regulations. The FCC also checks for the latter, and sends out notices of violations. Here's an example:

»transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotic···5A1.html

So the first step is to get the cable installed correctly, if it is not at present. That means a drop from the pole to the general location of your electrical service, preferable without splices, at which point it get's connected to a ground block which is bonded to the electrical service ground. From there it runs to the cable box (sometimes the ground is inside the cable box.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:10:52 EDT

hortnut posted :

said by IowaCowboy:

From what you are saying it sounds like the leakage/ingress issue is being caused by wiring issues.

The first solution would be to put terminators on all unused cable outlets or unused splitter ports.

The second solution is to replace the fittings, wiring, and/or the splitters.

You could also have a device that is causing ingress or a TV is using the CATV line as a ground (usually caused by faulty equipment or electrical wiring).

.
Did you read the OP and subsequent posts by Original Poster? He said, more than once:
"I inform [sic] one of the guys that I actually pay extra money a month to comcast for servicing/repairs/tech support."

Now from that, I take it, Comcast will take care of inside and outside wiring and all things connected, the same DISH did when I took out their Line Maintenance Service. The same when I had DSL, a few years back.

I know CenturyLink has taken care of some Line oddities for a relative in a Ranch House built in 1955 where the line maintenance option is purchased.

Just trying to keep discussion on track for the OP. If he wishes to experiment, then good for him!

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:27:07 EDT

IowaCowboy posted : From what you are saying it sounds like the leakage/ingress issue is being caused by wiring issues.

The first solution would be to put terminators on all unused cable outlets or unused splitter ports.

The second solution is to replace the fittings, wiring, and/or the splitters.

You could also have a device that is causing ingress or a TV is using the CATV line as a ground (usually caused by faulty equipment or electrical wiring).

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:01:14 EDT

ExoticFish posted : You do not need to RENT a modem/router from Comcast and pay them an additional fee every month just because two random people say your router is causing problems.

Personally I would simply continue to use everything like you were before. IF and a big IF some guys return and attempt to disconnect your service then contact your local office or the corporate office and get to the bottom of what they claim is going on. I'd be willing to bet that you don't hear anything else from those guys though.
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Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 19:57:11 EDT

anon posted : @Dan2112, I didn't get their info. I don't doubt they were comcast. There were two trucks there, they knew exactly where everything was, other people were calling in on the radio, they had all the gear all the other comcast guys had before. If they weren't comcast, they either stole the trucks and gear or they were fbi, cia, mossad or some other "group." I'm not doing anything illegal for those guys to even look my way, so I don't think that's the case.

@ExoticFish, why not? Is there a thread here where I can read about this modem? Or do you mind explaining it to me?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:43:36 EDT

ExoticFish posted :

said by Gyp Thompson :

is the comcast wireless modem something I should look into?

Absolutely not.
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Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:34:30 EDT

Dan2112 posted : Did you get the names of the techs that visited? Check ID? Call me paranoid, but it sounds fishy to me.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:55:09 EDT

anon posted : Well, if anything happens I have her name. I asked her if she understood what I was talking about and she said yes. She told me there was never a problem in the area to begin with and the first two guys that came out told me no other customers called about the problem but that they saw the problem and then decided someone would be sent out in the morning. The guy from yesterday said they did have an order, from Comcast itself not because anyone called. BTW, the two people I spoke with today said they should have knocked on the door.

I want them to fix the problem, I don't want my service to impact anyone else which is why I'm asking questions, trying to get things resolved, etc. If push comes to shove and I have to dump my router, is the comcast wireless modem something I should look into?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:50:15 EDT

DrDrew posted :

said by Gyp Thompson :

UPDATE: I spoke with comcast today and a woman was able to look at the tech calls and she said no one was scheduled for yesterday and that she didn't see any problem areas from yesterday or the night before. She checked the levels without the router hooked up and she said they were normal. She checked the levels with the router hooked up and, again, said they were normal.

They're coming back out tommorow to redo all the wiring, but I have my router hooked back up.

Remote CSRs can't see the noise or leakage and it doesn't normally affect the levels reported by the modem that the CSRs can see. Mostly these issues can only be "seen" by techs using specific analyzers or leakage meters in the area. If bad enough other customers in the area will "see" the issue as intermittent modem trouble, slow speeds, packet loss, and choppy voice calls.

Frequently, system/maintenance techs looking for noise/leakage don't have any particular work orders for addresses. They're doing normal routine maintenance, which includes noise/leakage abatement. They'll tag, filter, and/or disco offenders which forces them to call in for a service appointment. Leaving it working often just results in confusing calls to tech support and cancelled truck rolls which result in the interference still happening.

Any which way, a system with a good maintenance plan will have techs like those monitoring the noise/leakage and getting them repaired ASAP. Letting it fester just makes service unreliable.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:25:30 EDT

anon posted : UPDATE: I spoke with comcast today and a woman was able to look at the tech calls and she said no one was scheduled for yesterday and that she didn't see any problem areas from yesterday or the night before. She checked the levels without the router hooked up and she said they were normal. She checked the levels with the router hooked up and, again, said they were normal.

They're coming back out tommorow to redo all the wiring, but I have my router hooked back up.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 03:18:59 EDT

anon posted :

quote:
Did you connect a computer up directly to the modem when they were checking the line? If you don't believe you router is faulty, that's a quick way to try and rule it out. There's a really good chance your router is faulty and needs to be warrantied or replaced.

The router is just a little over a month past the manufacturer warranty date. Yes, the modem was connected to the router and directly to the PC.

quote:
If it's out of warranty, then it lasted longer than the manufacturer guaranteed it would last. The average consumer wants their tech on the cheap; the manufactures know this and have to reduce their quality to get to that price point. Most of these companies are there to make profit to make the shareholders, not the customers, happy.

Ok.

quote:
Personally I got tired of throwing my money away at consumer grade routers that had software bugs that rarely ever got fixed and the hardware wouldn't make it much past the warranty. These were even well regarded networking companies with positive reviews, but the reviews didn't always find/cover the bugs and definitely couldn't cover longevity. I've instead opted to just build my own out of PC parts that have long warranties and loaded pfSense onto it.

I really don't have the time for all of that. I need custom built rigs for the type of work that I do and thats about it. I wouldn't need a custom built rig just for internet service.

But thanks for the help man.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 01:12:45 EDT

noc007 posted : Did you connect a computer up directly to the modem when they were checking the line? If you don't believe you router is faulty, that's a quick way to try and rule it out. There's a really good chance your router is faulty and needs to be warrantied or replaced.

If it's out of warranty, then it lasted longer than the manufacturer guaranteed it would last. The average consumer wants their tech on the cheap; the manufactures know this and have to reduce their quality to get to that price point. Most of these companies are there to make profit to make the shareholders, not the customers, happy.

Personally I got tired of throwing my money away at consumer grade routers that had software bugs that rarely ever got fixed and the hardware wouldn't make it much past the warranty. These were even well regarded networking companies with positive reviews, but the reviews didn't always find/cover the bugs and definitely couldn't cover longevity. I've instead opted to just build my own out of PC parts that have long warranties and loaded pfSense onto it.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:01:07 EDT

anon posted : Some confusing use of terms, Leakage is not the correct term. NOISE would be what you were causing. If your router is causing leakage that would be a problem for you and the FCC to deal with not us. If you are causing NOISE to be injected into our network in the form of RF waves or just voltage, then we will cut you off to restore service to everyone else, no matter what made up service you think you have, THERE is NO service that says we will give you special treatment when you are injecting noise into the system, no matter what some salesmen told you. You cause bad SNR, we track it to you, either you are home and you let us disco the offending outlet/equipment causing the issue, or you get a 75 Ohm terminator on your tap port. Either way the node issue gets fixed.

That said, I doubt a bad Ethernet cable could cause that, it has to be some form of wave feeding over the Ethernet to the modem and across it to the RF, which indicates a bad router or a power issue, IMHO. Something like a floating neutral or bad neutral perhaps, damaged PSU maybe? Or possible a bad design internally on the router circuits.

Has it been seen before, why yes it has. Is it common. No its not. Could the techs have been wrong, certainly, but if you hook it back up and it makes noise, your going to get removed from the network and thus have NO INTERNET/TV/PHONE as opposed to just having it off the modem. Your call, but know they were serious, if they go to that tap and see noise coming off your drop again, it is curtains.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:54:47 EDT

ExoticFish posted : Really now ?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:35:48 EDT

anon posted : OK, I'll let them know. So are there any questions I need to specifically ask them? Or any info I need to come back and provide for you all?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:14:35 EDT

DrDrew posted :

said by Gyp Tompson :

So, what can I do on my end to troubleshoot? I don't have the tools they have nor do I have the knowledge. Should I just give comcast a call and set up an appointment for them to come out?

That would probably be best. Let customer service know you were tagged for "signal leakage" inside the house.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:10:23 EDT

anon posted : Ok, so I guess it's just normal procedure for them to do it the way they did it. So, in the mean time what should I do?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:08:50 EDT

anon posted : So, what can I do on my end to troubleshoot? I don't have the tools they have nor do I have the knowledge. Should I just give comcast a call and set up an appointment for them to come out?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:57:05 EDT

panth1 posted :

said by Gyp Thompson :

These are the same guys that were going to nuke the service without even knocking on the door and letting me know what was going on. Then I had to tell the guy to check all the cables to make sure they weren't the issue, but he didn't check the one coming from outside. I just don't see how a modem can do this.

Most cable companies will install a high pass filter on the line and let the service techs find the noise. Assuming upstream noise. They figure knocking on the door to tell a customer noise is coming from their residence will result in them getting told to get lost. Plus they are probably running noise all day.

This forces the customer to call and let someone in to reconnect service and find whats' causing the noise.

Fortunately for you, you were home and they agreed to "troubleshoot" further.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:21:58 EDT

DrDrew posted : It may not be the router causing the problem at all, it may be something else connected to the router, but using it as a path.

More troubleshooting is needed.

I've seen these sorts of problems caused by all sorts of things, including: loose coax connectors nearby wireless devices allow in noise; wireless routers too close to modems which then overwhelms internal RF shielding; power outlets with hot/neutral reversed causing hot chassis to ground out through the coax, etc.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:14:56 EDT

anon posted : I'm learning about all of this stuff as I type (ingress and the other term that alludes me right now) so I am a noob. This is not my area of expertise so I thank you all for helping me.

They said it would interfere with other customers, I've hooked the router back up but they did tell me they would kill it again if it came back. So should I just disconnect it and buy a new router or disconnect and get the comcast wireless router?

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:12:12 EDT

anon posted : "Hmmm... If they were from CC's *noise police* dept., these guys are typically far from being "idiots"..."

------------------------

These are the same guys that were going to nuke the service without even knocking on the door and letting me know what was going on. Then I had to tell the guy to check all the cables to make sure they weren't the issue, but he didn't check the one coming from outside. I just don't see how a modem can do this.

This isn't my area of expertise, so I'm not saying they are idiots, but something doesn't sit right with me and I had issues with comcast before.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:08:21 EDT

DrDrew posted : Leakage was probably their catch all term for ingress...

It's possible a grounding problem with some of the connected electronics which is using the router as a path to the coax ground and is inducing noise on to the coax.

It's also possible if the router is a wireless model, that it's RF transmitter is faulty and causing RF interference directly with the nearby modem or coax.

Either can cause enough interference to enter the cable system to impact OTHER customers.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:07:39 EDT

DrDrew posted : dup

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:01:24 EDT

anon posted : The router has two ethernet cables. One is going to the pc and the other to the cable modem. The cable modem has a cable wire. We swapped out the ethernet cables and they said the problem was still there.

My question is this, how can a router all of a sudden provide too much power? I've had it for a year, so if it was going to malfunction wouldn't it provide minimal power?

I don't have access to another router so I can't test that. I do have access to another pc but there is no use in testing that with this router.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:41:50 EDT

EG posted :

said by ExoticFish:

You had idiot techs out to your home.

Hmmm... If they were from CC's *noise police* dept., these guys are typically far from being "idiots"...

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:17:10 EDT

anon posted : Technically this is possible but the chances are very slim.

The router plugs into the modem with a cable right? well that cable can carry noise or excess power or a number of things to cause, just like dirty power can cause signal issues for devices.

That said the issue could be the cable modem itself, it could have a problem when data is converted from it's Ethernet to coax thus be a bad network port on the modem or something else.

Only way to test really is plug another router in or a pc directly and have them check.

If it's all fine still the router could simply be providing too much power over the low voltage of the network or noise on it that is back feeding.

So for those saying not possible this is possible, but again it's rare. If they tested multiple times I doubt they made it up, just you need to figure out for sure is it the modem or the router.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:16:21 EDT

ExoticFish posted : I wouldn't do anything. Use your router like you want. It's not causing leakage into Comcast's network. You had idiot techs out to your home.
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Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:07:29 EDT

anon posted : I just hooked my router back up so I could see if the settings would change and I attached a pic.

Internet is upstairs and cable tv service is upstairs and downstairs. On one side of the house is the cable box. On the other side of the house is my breaker. Years ago comcast had to hook the wires up under my roof, from the side where the cable box is to the side where the breaker is because they said CA law requires. BTW, I'm in the Bay Area of California. My apologies for not providing this info in my previous post.

On the outside, there are two splitters. One is a splitter that has one input and four outputs. The other is a splitter with one input and two outputs. I believe the one with one input and two outputs is the one with internet service.

So at this point what do I do? I just hooked the router back up.

Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:55:00 EDT

ExoticFish posted : The router isn't connected via coax so I would not think it could cause any leakage back into the network.
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Re: [Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:48:56 EDT

pflog posted : There is no way a router behind the cable modem is causing "leakage" of the data/physical layer. Something doesn't add up here...if anything it would be the cable modem causing problems.

Is the cable modem on a splitter? Perhaps there's a TV connected which is causing the signal leakage/noise?
--
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[Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:30:59 EDT

anon posted : Hello everyone,

Comcast came by this morning, didn't knock on the door and interrupted my service. I go outside and low and behold two guys are out there. I asked them what the problem was and they said there was leakage and because they couldn't find it they were just going to interrupt the service. One of the guys said they noticed the leakage late last night and it was then decided that service would be interrupted.

I inform one of the guys that I actually pay extra money a month to comcast for servicing/repairs/tech support. So, to make a long story short, we go outside to where the box is and he takes the cover off. From there he tests the signals and he tells me whatever is not getting service in the home right now is the culprit. So we go back in and the internet is down.

The worker came in, disconnected my E2500 router, tested the modem, used his walkie talkie to speak with the guy that was outside and they ran a check. The guy outside said it was fine. He hooked the router back up, contacted the guy on the walkie talkie and said the signal was no longer fine. I had them do this several times and I also swapped out ethernet cables but, according to them, the problem still persisted. They then told me I couldn’t hook my router back up and said if I hooked it back up they would just shut the service off.

I’ve had this router since December 11th 2011. I’ve never had any issues before and no one, aside from me, can access the settings of the router or the computer, so it’s not like kids were mucking around and screwed things up.
So, were these guys telling the truth or could there be something else going on? I’m using a small RCA/Thomson model. I checked the modem diagnostics and have attached a pic that shows what is going on when the modem I connected. I’ll hook the router back up, test again and post an image if you guys think it will help.

Again, do you guys think it could be the router causing the leak or could it be something else?