dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
11
share rss forum feed


Streetlight

join:2005-11-07
Colorado Springs, CO
reply to SpHeRe31459

Re: [DVR] External DVR Storage

Comcast's storage might not be quite so colossal if they're smart about how they store customers' data. It's possible that they could store only one copy of a "recording" any number of customers wanted to store and tag each item with unique cable box identifiers such as its MAC address for those customers who wanted to access the item. The cable box would only need to access a data base table making the connections between saved items and customer cable box. There's likely to be a lot of redundancy of saved programs by 22 million customers. I think this is the way Amazon, or is it Google, is saving online music files for its customers. This is likely the way Amazon "saves" purchased books for Kindle users rather than multiple copies of the same book for its millions of users.

I may have been the person who started to conversation about re-purposing the hard drive that might be used as a DVR extender for external storage on a computer. I think several folks in this thread have it right - it's a possibility that might be very useful. As I understand it, this hardware has both SATA and USB ports, but I don't know which version of either. Anyway, wrt computers, particularly laptops, having the new solid state drives with relatively low capacity and high price, fast external storage is probably a must and SATA being particularly fast would serve very well for this purpose. External drives with SATA ports are likely more expensive than those with only USB, even USB 3. It appears that the solid state drives can wear out from multiple writes, but not reads, so they're great for the OS and application software, but not the swap file or data storage that may be updated frequently. Desk top computers typically have room for multiple drives but the newer style laptops seem to place an emphasis on being so thin and lightweight that having both an SSD and spinning drive crammed in is impossible.
--
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.

Sherlock Holmes in
The Boscombe Valley Mystery
A. C. Doyle
Strand Magazine, October 1891


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
said by Streetlight:

Comcast's storage might not be quite so colossal if they're smart about how they store customers' data. It's possible that they could store only one copy of a "recording" any number of customers wanted to store and tag each item with unique cable box identifiers such as its MAC address for those customers who wanted to access the item. The cable box would only need to access a data base table making the connections between saved items and customer cable box. There's likely to be a lot of redundancy of saved programs by 22 million customers. I think this is the way Amazon, or is it Google, is saving online music files for its customers. This is likely the way Amazon "saves" purchased books for Kindle users rather than multiple copies of the same book for its millions of users.

This sort of sounds like a type of On Demand or Netflix thing, I think.

said by Streetlight:

I may have been the person who started to conversation about re-purposing the hard drive that might be used as a DVR extender for external storage on a computer. I think several folks in this thread have it right - it's a possibility that might be very useful. As I understand it, this hardware has both SATA and USB ports, but I don't know which version of either.

Both the $99 version and the $129 version are identical, including both having the dual interface. They literally are identical, only the part number being different for marketing purposes so they can charge more. I go into detail about it here »Re: DVR Extender w/Moto Boxes

SpHeRe31459
Premium
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

2 edits
reply to Streetlight
said by Streetlight:

Comcast's storage might not be quite so colossal if they're smart about how they store customers' data. It's possible that they could store only one copy of a "recording" any number of customers wanted to store and tag each item with unique cable box identifiers such as its MAC address for those customers who wanted to access the item. The cable box would only need to access a data base table making the connections between saved items and customer cable box. There's likely to be a lot of redundancy of saved programs by 22 million customers. I think this is the way Amazon, or is it Google, is saving online music files for its customers. This is likely the way Amazon "saves" purchased books for Kindle users rather than multiple copies of the same book for its millions of users.

Yep, that's a pretty reasonable way for an MSO to do it, and that's actually one of the legality issues that Cablevision encountered, though they technically won the ability to keep using remote storage, it's still a hotly contested feature. The DVR copy is supposed to be a person's fair use right to make a single copy for timeshifting purposes. Various content providers argued that if the cable company holds the copy then the cable company is in effect retransmitting the content and without paying extra licensing fees, etc.

There is also debate that to uphold the idea of a fair-use copy when using remote storage, a copy for every person that scheduled the recording must be kept separately, to keep the remote DVR concept in the same spirit as a traditional local DVR.

There is another proposed solution which is similar but different in a significant way: the "recording" is really a placeholder in the DVR menu which actually just sends the user the OnDemand version of the episode. The cable company already has an agreement in place to have the episode in their VOD library so it wouldn't get the content providers up in arms about retrans agreements. As we know, the OnDemand version is not the same thing as one recorded on a DVR, many times the OnDemand version has advertisements that cannot be skipped, and often the quality is lower (especially for less popular channels). And of course the OnDemand library is rather limited in comparison to the number of linear channels available.


Streetlight

join:2005-11-07
Colorado Springs, CO
Your suggestion that a saved item in a VOD is interesting but the result might appear to produce exactly the same result for the sub as what I suggested. In either case one of the problems with a cloud storage might be Comcast's retransmission rights. That is, VOD material is usually up for a limited time for selection whereas what is implied by storing media is that it's available forever unless the user deletes it. For a home cable box, once the hard drive is near full something has to go to provide space for any new items. CC may limit the amount of cloud "storage" customers may use. On the other hand, if something "stored" is made available for many (thousands, millions?) folks and only one copy is actually on CC's servers, why limit subs as to what's available. This suggests that everything broadcast on all CC's channels should be permanently available to all subsibribers. This would again result in the same kind of problem Netflix has had with content producers allowing it to send out disks or stream content. Even there, Netflix's catalog of content seems to change so some stuff comes and goes and may not be always available .

It seems to me that DVRs are great for time shifting entertainment, but not for permanent storage. If cloud DVRs come about it's likely to mean some limitation on the amount of "storage" to enable time shifting only. If one wants permanent access to a particular item one either must purchase it on DVD or Blu-Ray or record it oneself. I don't know of any Blu-Ray recorders but there are options for capturing stuff on DVD disks. Or, get as many $100 external disk drives as needed, but then you can only get your stuff back if you still have the DVR from which the recordings were made. The content producers will still be in control of what's available.
--
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.

Sherlock Holmes in
The Boscombe Valley Mystery
A. C. Doyle
Strand Magazine, October 1891


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4

1 edit
Came across this. »www.motorola.com/Video-Solutions···ps_US-EN
For Motorola customers with the A30 guide and using an external drive, do these features appear? »www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Vid···uide.pdf Is the external drive utility accessible?


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
said by Mike Wolf:

For Motorola customers with the A30 guide and using an external drive, do these features appear?

The only dialog box that appeared when I connected the drive was alert #1, asking to format the drive.

For what it's worth, prior to connecting the external drive, I had turned off and unplugged the DVR. I powered up the external drive, waited a minute then powered up the DVR. Nothing happened.

The blue power button blinked once then the DVR wouldn't respond to the remote or start up manually.

So I disconnected the eSATA cable then turned on the DVR, it started up OK. I plugged in the eSATA cable and right away alert #1 dialog box appeared.

I don't recall seeing the success dialog, but the drive is registered and my DVR recording capacity percentage went from something like 75% full to 12% full.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~

yhp

join:2006-12-27
Philadelphia, PA
reply to Mike Wolf
Interesting. Official Motorola documentation says the DCX3400 is supported.


jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
With the a30 update it works.

yhp

join:2006-12-27
Philadelphia, PA
said by jack b:

With the a30 update it works.

Not also a firmware update? I've never seen the menu screen you provided a snap of.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
I'm still pleased to see on that second image the hard drive temperature. I wonder if the "max temp" is the temp the drive got to at some point, or if it's the temp threshold the drive is capable of for it to be within normal operating parameters. I wonder if I connect my Seagate DVR External drive to a Motorola box if it will list the "airflow temp" along with the drive temp as it does on a computer.
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with VoIP testing so my contact info is below.
Gigaset.net: Michael Wolf
Callcentric: 17772288600
SIP URI: sip:226976325024#9@sip.gigaset.net and sip:17772288600@in.callcentric.com
Skype: MikeWolf051