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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

They obviously don't know any of the pirates that I know.

I personally know many pirates who download games, music, and movies and don't spend a dime on that content. In fact, with hard drive prices getting so cheap, they download and just keep it on their network for future use.

The study is interesting though. I take the same approach to be honest. If I download a game and like playing it, I will buy it. Dishonored is a good example of that. I downloaded it, enjoyed the product, so I bought it on Steam. I have no doubt that there are a lot of people like me out there doing the same thing.

I also have no doubt that there are a lot of people like the friends I have that just download and don't spend a dime on content. I choose to believe that more of the later exists.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
You can extend that many ways.

In a nutshell most of us will be willing to give some time and money to organizations that we enjoy to help them out. If that were not true than the Free to play games and the trail versions of software that has a vast majority of needed functionality would not survive because no body would ever donate or buy.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by Skippy25:

You can extend that many ways.

In a nutshell most of us will be willing to give some time and money to organizations that we enjoy to help them out. If that were not true than the Free to play games and the trail versions of software that has a vast majority of needed functionality would not survive because no body would ever donate or buy.

Pirates are not as common as people think. A vast majority are already purchasing. Companies are surviving. Still, pirating does result in a loss of revenue. Just how much is up for debate. Its much less than the billions that the RIAA and MPAA say it is and its much more than the "nothing" that the pirates say they are.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
said by Nightfall:

said by Skippy25:

You can extend that many ways.

In a nutshell most of us will be willing to give some time and money to organizations that we enjoy to help them out. If that were not true than the Free to play games and the trail versions of software that has a vast majority of needed functionality would not survive because no body would ever donate or buy.

Pirates are not as common as people think. A vast majority are already purchasing. Companies are surviving. Still, pirating does result in a loss of revenue. Just how much is up for debate. Its much less than the billions that the RIAA and MPAA say it is and its much more than the "nothing" that the pirates say they are.

Oh I think they have lost billions, but not due to piracy. But a lot of it is music has been revalued in the world. People used to spend lots of money on an album collection. Today they have Pandora, Or can cherry pick their favorite tracks on Amazon/iTunes for far less money.

The move to digital has also meant that lots of music can be purchased legit, from bands that can now skip the big record model. An indie band that previously had to sell their soul to EMI can now go it on their own and sell directly via iTunes.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

I personally know many pirates who download games, music, and movies and don't spend a dime on that content. In fact, with hard drive prices getting so cheap, they download and just keep it on their network for future use.

But, if they are like most of the pirates I know they do much more downloading than actual use. They may have 40TB of data, but probably have only accessed less than 1%, they only want the biggest collection. Further showing that a pirated copy is not a lost sale. That person wasn't going to buy it anyway.

I think there are a lot of people who will purchase content if the cost is reasonable. Look how many copies the Humble Bundles sell. I have bought quite a few of them. I've probably only played a handful of the games. Even if the developers only get $1 a game they make it up in volume.
--
“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” ¯ Robert A. Heinlein


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by Kilroy:

said by Nightfall:

I personally know many pirates who download games, music, and movies and don't spend a dime on that content. In fact, with hard drive prices getting so cheap, they download and just keep it on their network for future use.

But, if they are like most of the pirates I know they do much more downloading than actual use. They may have 40TB of data, but probably have only accessed less than 1%, they only want the biggest collection. Further showing that a pirated copy is not a lost sale. That person wasn't going to buy it anyway.

I think there are a lot of people who will purchase content if the cost is reasonable. Look how many copies the Humble Bundles sell. I have bought quite a few of them. I've probably only played a handful of the games. Even if the developers only get $1 a game they make it up in volume.

I posted a couple examples in another thread, but there are instances where what you speak of is true and others where it isn't. I mention the friend I have who is a big fan of James Bond. He pirated the movies off of a website in 720p quality. He watches them a lot. He did it to avoid the $300 price tag on the James Bond Collection on Bluray.

So, back to your point, at what point should people be charged for listening, watching, reading a product? Is it 1 time? 2 times? 10 times? I really don't give much credence to the point you made. If someone is going to use the product they downloaded, then they should be charged for it or they shouldn't download it. To download and keep a library of stuff they will never use is really a bad argument. After all, the point is that these people are still using the materials they are downloading. No one just downloads with no indication of using it at least once or twice. In which case, people really should be charged because you can get the same satisfaction for free on Youtube or downloading a game demo.

As someone who has worked with intellectual property and been a victim of copyright infringement, I can tell you that its a slippery slope. I believe that people and companies should be compensated fairly. As you said, the humble bundle is a good example. I don't subscribe to the RIAA and MPAA's story of damages, but I also don't believe pirates or people who condone pirating saying that the number is zero or pennies.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

said by Nightfall:

said by Skippy25:

You can extend that many ways.

In a nutshell most of us will be willing to give some time and money to organizations that we enjoy to help them out. If that were not true than the Free to play games and the trail versions of software that has a vast majority of needed functionality would not survive because no body would ever donate or buy.

Pirates are not as common as people think. A vast majority are already purchasing. Companies are surviving. Still, pirating does result in a loss of revenue. Just how much is up for debate. Its much less than the billions that the RIAA and MPAA say it is and its much more than the "nothing" that the pirates say they are.

Oh I think they have lost billions, but not due to piracy. But a lot of it is music has been revalued in the world. People used to spend lots of money on an album collection. Today they have Pandora, Or can cherry pick their favorite tracks on Amazon/iTunes for far less money.

The move to digital has also meant that lots of music can be purchased legit, from bands that can now skip the big record model. An indie band that previously had to sell their soul to EMI can now go it on their own and sell directly via iTunes.

I agree 100%. Those are factors in the decline in profits without a doubt. Still, if the RIAA has lost 50% of its profits, then pirating is somewhere between 5%-10% of those lost profits. Not the whole 50% and certainly not 0%.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

Its much less than the billions that the RIAA and MPAA say it is and its much more than the "nothing" that the pirates say they are.

Here's the rub with that: the MPAA and RIAA deduct the fictitious portion of losses due to piracy along with the real portion against their income.

This means that day in and day out, year after year, the MPAA and RIAA are getting away with tax fraud and cheating you, me, and everyone else out of the "benefits" we deserve from their tax payments.

Perhaps the RIAA and MPAA ought to stop defrauding the government through false accounting figures before they consider going after individuals for pirating something which may not have even resulted in a loss of revenue to them.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

said by Nightfall:

Its much less than the billions that the RIAA and MPAA say it is and its much more than the "nothing" that the pirates say they are.

Here's the rub with that: the MPAA and RIAA deduct the fictitious portion of losses due to piracy along with the real portion against their income.

This means that day in and day out, year after year, the MPAA and RIAA are getting away with tax fraud and cheating you, me, and everyone else out of the "benefits" we deserve from their tax payments.

Perhaps the RIAA and MPAA ought to stop defrauding the government through false accounting figures before they consider going after individuals for pirating something which may not have even resulted in a loss of revenue to them.

I agree with you. At the same time though, that doesn't change the fact that the RIAA and MPAA's profits are negatively affected my piracy. I think the tax fraud and cheating are out of line, but two wrongs do not make a right.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net