Topic 'Flush an old hot water heater?' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:33:05 EDT

HarryH3 posted : I thought that the dip tube might be broken in our current place, as we had the same 5-miute window to take a shower. Once I took a look at the water heater, I found that the hot and cold connections were reversed. Once I fixed that I could take a hot shower for 30 minutes. :)

The previous owners bought the house new and lived with it like this for years! :o :o :o

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:05:35 EDT

TheSMJ posted : Having slept/showered at the house for a few days, I can now say that the reason for the water heater being turned up so high is because the dip-tube is more than likely broken. The hot water is fine for the first 5 minutes or so, and then starts to get cold quickly.

I checked the bottom of the tank above the burner and there isn't too much rust down there. Some spotting but nothing to make me think it's about to leak. I'll try to replace the tube sometime in the coming weeks, and might as well replace the anode while I'm at it.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:09:04 EDT

ArgMeMatey posted :

said by Bob:

In Canada, the water heaters have the cold inlet at the bottom of the tank (on the side). No dip tube. That makes so much sense to me, I don't know why we don't see that type here.

Could it be because they are easier to replace if the bottom feed pipe doesn't have to be moved out of the way to get a new heater into position?

Could be just "the way it is" but I'd be interested if anybody can give a historical perspective.

Regarding the copper conductor used to bond hot and cold pipes, it's a good idea even if those pipes are not relied upon for ground. With few exceptions, every pipe in the house should be grounded to ensure it does not become HOT.
--
USNG:
16TDN2870
Find your USNG coordinates:
USNGWeb

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 08:33:01 EDT

Bob posted : Regardless, I don't understand why manufacturers don't get rid of dip tubes and use "bottom entry" tanks.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:59:40 EDT

TA63 posted : Some older houses used the plumbing for an equipment ground where the walls don't contain wiring with a ground connector.

The threaded connections at the water tank would have either pipe dope or Teflon tape on them, and cannot be relied on to complete the circuit, thus the section of wire.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:56:20 EDT

TA63 posted : I don't doubt they exist, my point is that they aren't universal like you seemed to imply in your previous post.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:28:45 EDT

Bob posted :

said by TA63:

I live in Canada, and I have never seen anything like that.

Here you go... Bottom entry... "Proudly Canadian"
»www.giantinc.com/english/product···cade.htm

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 03:19:13 EDT

Kearnstd posted : I know what an anode rod does, buy the WH in this house we have here in Jersey also has a copper wire connecting the cold in and the hot out and that does not make sense to me. Seems like a form of electrical bonding though its an old style gas WH that has no electrical connections at all.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:51:57 EDT

TA63 posted : I live in Canada, and I have never seen anything like that.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:32:17 EDT

TheSMJ posted :

said by boaterbob:

So, back to the OPs hot water issue - by now you've read the suggested links - correct?

...

Yes, I've read those links. I'm still not sure if it's worth doing all this to an old tank which AFAIK was never properly maintained.

As far as flushing goes, it's possible I could open the valve and never get it to close right again, assuming it doesn't clog with sediment the moment I open the valve.

Before I was sure I'd have to replace it. Now, I'm on the fence.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:21:36 EDT

Bob posted : In Canada, the water heaters have the cold inlet at the bottom of the tank (on the side). No dip tube. That makes so much sense to me, I don't know why we don't see that type here.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:10:36 EDT

CylonRed posted : »www.howtodothings.com/home-garde···-heaters
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:24:19 EDT

Subaru posted :

said by boaterbob:

Sorry - I was simply summarizing this thread and leading the OP to maybe consider that a dissolved/broken dip tube could be his reason for not as much hot water as he wanted.

interesting I was just looking and did not know back in the mid to early 90's they had an issue with them breaking off.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:07:08 EDT

boaterbob posted : Sorry - I was simply summarizing this thread and leading the OP to maybe consider that a dissolved/broken dip tube could be his reason for not as much hot water as he wanted.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:57:05 EDT

Subaru posted : did you mean to reply to me? I was referring to the poster above me.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 14:48:14 EDT

boaterbob posted : So, back to the OPs hot water issue - by now you've read the suggested links - correct?

If by chance you skipped that part, you missed the #1 cause of your issue - read Sediment Control (about 2/3 of the way down at -

»www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/···nce.html

Also, on the same page are pics of anodes and where they are typically located.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:22:42 EDT

Subaru posted : most would be on the top it looks like a huge hex bolt but recessed, the AoSmith I think had a plastic cover over it I can't remember right now.. If yours does not have it maybe the outlet pipe is the anode?

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:18:12 EDT

lutful posted :

said by CylonRed:

Gas/electric should not matter - the rods are there to "An anode rod is necessary because it prevents any corrosion of a water heater's metal lining."

Our gas water heater was installed Dec/1989 when the home was built and I never thought about cathodic protection. The hot water output and quality still seems to be fine.

Anyway the anode, if present, must be 23 years old. Where should I look for it? You can see bottom part of the blue heater here:
»noisy furnace fan

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:12:29 EDT

Subaru posted : Yeah this one was a 80 gallon AOSmith as well it had never been changed and at this time it was 7 years in.. Oh well not worried about it now.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:42:21 EDT

ArgMeMatey posted :

said by Subaru:

all I had was metric impact sockets and they were all too fat to fit down and the smallest size is 10mm and the largest is 24mm I think some of the foam insulation was in the way as well.

I have an AOSmith and I've used a 27mm non-impact three times with no trouble at all. It's very close to 1-1/16 actual size.

The first time, when the heater was about three years old, I put an eye bolt in a stud and wrapped a ratcheting cable puller around the T&P valve. I then used a 2' pipe on a 1/2" breaker handle.

My water heater was installed in March 2000 and I'm on my third anode rod. I get the flexible, cabled style due to low clearance.

$50 every four years doesn't seem unreasonable for my heater arrangement, which will require some re-engineering when it is finally replaced.
--
USNG:
16TDN2870
Find your USNG coordinates:
USNGWeb

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:59:31 EDT

jack b posted :

said by boaterbob:

Well ... If you had left the water to the heater turned on, it would spray out the hole once you removed the anode (guess you figured that); if the water was HOT, guess what would spray out!

Well... as with any advice given here, it's sometimes wise not to assume a certain level of skill of the reader who asks a question.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:04:56 EDT
Subaru posted : I was going to ask about the socket size because the one I tried to get to all I had was metric impact sockets and they were all too fat to fit down and the smallest size is 10mm and the largest is 24mm I think some of the foam insulation was in the way as well.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:01:20 EDT
CylonRed posted : Gas/electric should not matter - the rods are there to "An anode rod is necessary because it prevents any corrosion of a water heater's metal lining."

Electric does not cause more issues with the corrosion of the tank nor does gas prevent corrosion.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:47:57 EDT
laserfan posted :
said by boaterbob:
The bigger question is, can you even get the old anode bolt unscrewed. I just did a 4 year old electric water heater and I used a pneumatic wrench (didn't work), a socket breaker bar (didn't work) a 3# hammer against the breaker bar (didn't work) and a 4ft long water pipe over the breaker bar with a lot of force (and it finally came loose).
Yeah, you need first of all the right sized socket (usually 3/4"), but then what works reliably is a 1/2" electric impact wrench (see harborfreight.com). I have 3 water heaters and this wrench works every time, with continuous short hard strokes that are better even than that 4ft breaker bar which, yes, will turn the WH on its base! Best $40 bucks I've spent on tools--it's been a godsend for a number of other purposes as well.

AFAICT with even the best water, an anode rod should be replaced every few years--the last one I took-out at 3 years was only mostly inner steel wire--very little sacrifical metal left to it.

BTW my WHs are all electric; I'm surprised to learn there are anode rods in gas WHs too and wonder if they deteriorate at a similar rate to electric...?

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:34:35 EDT
boaterbob posted : Well ... If you had left the water to the heater turned on, it would spray out the hole once you removed the anode (guess you figured that); if the water was HOT, guess what would spray out!

But, no you do not need for the water to be cool before you remove the anode provided, of course, that you turned OFF the water AND turned off the electricity if your heater is electric. If power is ON and the tank water level drops below the level of the heating elements AND they were still ON, then the elements would be destroyed and you'd need to buy and install new elements.

The bigger question is, can you even get the old anode bolt unscrewed. I just did a 4 year old electric water heater and I used a pneumatic wrench (didn't work), a socket breaker bar (didn't work) a 3# hammer against the breaker bar (didn't work) and a 4ft long water pipe over the breaker bar with a lot of force (and it finally came loose). TIP: if you tank is soldered to the water pipes, do not let the tank twist or turn too much as you try to loosen the anode nut as you do not want to break any solder joints (or tip over the take full of water).

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:58:13 EDT
jack b posted :
said by Subaru:
do you need to allow the tank to cool?

Not really, just turn off the water supply and depressurize it, is all.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:48:16 EDT
Subaru posted :
said by boaterbob:
Some things to consider -
Probably the sacrificial anode rod has never been changed, thus 15 years is past the point (by only a couple of years) where it is protecting the tank from rust. And you probably would never get the old plug loose to put a new rod in (if you can find the plug as sometimes they are under the top metal cover). When buying a new heater, make sure the 'plug' is visible and, while new and before heating for the first time, unscrew the plug and reinstall with tape - unless you don't plan on checking the anode rod every 2 years or so.

So many people overlook this, they just install the heater and be done with it.. I do have a question if say you change the rod (I assume you can get them local?) do you need to allow the tank to cool?
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!

LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:17:18 EDT
boaterbob posted : Or read »www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/···ter.html
for anode options and other useful info on water heaters.

A useful 'forum' on water heaters too.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:13:55 EDT
Bruschi posted :
said by switchman:
When I replaced mine, I had to bring it up to code. Even though it is electric, it now sits on a stand approx 2ft off the floor. The only bad thing is that when I want to replace the anode, I only have 1.5/2ft to the ceiling.

They make flexible ones for tight places. »www.plumbingsupply.com/anoderods.html
--
Professional student pilot!

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:35:28 EDT
switchman posted : When I replaced mine, I had to bring it up to code. Even though it is electric, it now sits on a stand approx 2ft off the floor. The only bad thing is that when I want to replace the anode, I only have 1.5/2ft to the ceiling.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:12:53 EDT
Bob posted : I wonder if you're really getting all the hot water. Make sure you don't have a mixing valve or some other connection between the hot and cold water. Turn off the cold water feed to the water heater and make sure the hot water really stops flowing. If it continues, you have a cross-connection somewhere.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:42:49 EDT
Bamafan2277 posted :
At least it's not leaking...

Yet! You will probably be much better off going ahead and replacing it with a new energy efficent unit. The savings will be quite noticeable if you are having to heat the water to almost max in the old one to get warm water.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:44:38 EDT
TheSMJ posted :
said by boaterbob:
Are you proficient in gas and water plumbing (esp if the water lines are soldered rather than using fittings you can unscrew).

I've seen it done a few times, and I plan to have guidance from someone who has done it a few times in the past. Gotta learn somehow.

The more I think about it, the more I think I should just replace it. Anything else would just be throwing good money and time after bad. I'll see how the current heater works after I close and decide if it's worth replacing right away or waiting.

At least it's not leaking...

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:14:32 EDT
boaterbob posted : Some things to consider -
Probably the sacrificial anode rod has never been changed, thus 15 years is past the point (by only a couple of years) where it is protecting the tank from rust. And you probably would never get the old plug loose to put a new rod in (if you can find the plug as sometimes they are under the top metal cover). When buying a new heater, make sure the 'plug' is visible and, while new and before heating for the first time, unscrew the plug and reinstall with tape - unless you don't plan on checking the anode rod every 2 years or so.

Are you proficient in gas and water plumbing (esp if the water lines are soldered rather than using fittings you can unscrew).

Is the tank downstairs in a basement or in the garage? If the tank is in a basement and you can not get it to drain, it would be a heck of a chore to get it up the stairs while full of water. Never poke anything into the drain if it is plugged AND full of hot water. If the plug comes open and hot water sprays out onto you, well ...

Leaking drains can sometimes be fixed by getting a hose bibb metal or plastic screw on cap. So if you can't get a drain to stop dripping, just screw on a bibb cap. That often solves the drip problem.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 05:43:06 EDT
Bob posted : 1. If sediment is that much of a problem problem, it won't come out the drain valve. When I retired my old water heater, the water just trickled out; the plumber had to knock off the drain valve with a hammer.

2. He'll never get the drain valve completely closed.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:01:20 EDT
aurgathor posted : The flush should cost you next to nothing, so I think it's worth trying to do it, you just need to be aware that it may not help.

I have an electric heater and a couple of years ago I used up probably 2 gallons of vinegar to clean out all the sediments.
--
Wacky Races 2012!

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:36:19 EDT
SuperNet9 posted : I was thinking of doing the same thing to a tank that was made in 1997..
Seems to be running fine tho.

Bad idea?

Sorry for hijacking this thread.
--
»www.RestartYourComputer.net

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 19:20:31 EDT
jack b posted : A 15 year old gas unit is not worth attempting to flush at this stage of the game.

Save yourself a headache and just replace it.

You might have trouble just draining the old one if in fact the sediment accumulation is as heavy as you anticipate.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:35:46 EDT
Jon posted :
said by TheSMJ:
I realize I should try and deal with this before I actually move in and (in the case of a replacement) have to deal without hot water while the tank is replaced and reheats.

That shouldn't be very long assuming no plumbing changes. I replaced ours over the summer myself. It was only a few hours for the whole process. Including going to HD to get it and hauling downstairs.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:09:50 EDT
TheSMJ posted : Being as it's exactly one week before closing I doubt I could pull that off.

I learned about the water heater almost 2 months ago since the home inspection. Originally I was planning on just dealing with it until I have to turn the thermostat all the way up, and then replacing it. But, the more I think about it the more I realize I should try and deal with this before I actually move in and (in the case of a replacement) have to deal without hot water while the tank is replaced and reheats.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:07:44 EDT
Bob posted : Don't open the drain valve.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:57:46 EDT
rjackal posted : Ideally, you would tell the seller what you told us, and have them pay for all or half of the cost of a new one as a condition for closing.

Re: Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:57:10 EDT
Jon posted : I personally would just spend the money and get a new one. After 15 years, it's probably ready for retirement. And you don't want to wake up to no hot water one morning.

Flush an old hot water heater?

Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:51:43 EDT
TheSMJ posted : The house I am closing on next week has a gas water heater that is 15 years old, and its thermostat needs to be turned up one notch below it's highest setting just to keep the water hot. I'm thinking that the tank is full of sediment, which in turn requires the tank to run the gas longer, costing me money in the long run.

I know how to flush out a hot water tank, but I've heard that flushing an old hot water heater could cause it to leak and/or outright fail as the sediment may be preventing leaks from forming.

I'm wondering if it's worth trying to flush the tank, or should I spend $350 on a new one to save myself from any potential issues?