 DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to telco_mtl
Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about? said by telco_mtl:please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like.
How did garages survive being unheated for the last 30-50 years without any of that stuff happening?
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes! |
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| said by Draiman:said by telco_mtl:please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like.
How did garages survive being unheated for the last 30-50 years without any of that stuff happening? up here in quebec attached garages are always heated, but most people turn off the heat. In my moonlight gig i can tell you just pulling up to the house if the garage has had its heat turned off. Until you have been up north you really dont know the disasterous effects of adfreezing |
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| reply to Bob
said by Bob:I'm talking about the things that look like battery chargers, with heavy cables and spring-loaded clamps on the ends. They put a large current through the pipes, generating heat and melting the ice. The advantage is that they work on pipes that are completely inaccessible, as long as you can connect the two clamps at least 20 feet(?) apart.
Interesting. Did not know such a thing existed. Sort of an induction heater for pipes... |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to alkizmo
Dont worry about. But you are in deep trouble if propane comes out as a LIQUID. »www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wbX9tN7Y9Y |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to alkizmo
Get a hammer (rip off drywall) and some fiberglass or styrofoam board and insulate the walls. The ground does not freeze below the frost line. Replace the drywall with 3/8 ply or osb to make maintenance easier in the future. Be careful of firewalls/code. Fastest way to dewater any pipe is compressed air. Make a QC to GHT fitting, attach to a hose tap, then drain each water fixture one by one until air is coming out. Toilets will require using the shutoff valve since tank won't refill. Best thing is to have a garden hose tap after your meter to inject air. Yes, its illegal due to no backflow preventer. Use non toxic pink RV anti freeze in toilet bowls and all traps. |
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 Bink63Namedrop THISPremium
join:2002-10-06
Everywhere
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:said by SparkChaser:it's -8C right now, I don't even want to think of -30 -8C is quite comfy  You didn't see my Home Simpsons reference? Yes I mean irony. said by jrs8084:From somebody who grew up in northern IL (and remembers -30 and -80 wind chills), the most important thing you can do is get on your knees and pray that the furnace doesn't tear up or the power goes out.
-80 windchills?!?!?!? Are you kidding me? You gotta be kidding me, I don't believe you. "Dear Tom,
What was the lowest wind chill ever recorded in Chicago?
—Earl Friedman
Dear Earl,
Chicago's lowest wind chill was recorded on a horribly cold Christmas Eve in 1983 when a temperature of minus 23 and a 29 mph wind combined to produce the record low wind chill of 82 below zero.
That is one climate record that will probably never be broken."
»articles.chicagotribune.com/2011···mph-wind
Side note: Tom Skilling is the world's highest paid Meteorologist for a GOOD reason.
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Hopefully the Ministry Of Truth and Thought Police can sort this whole thing out.
»twitter.com/Bink63
»www.legacypcs.com
Frank Shoemaker would call this noise
GO Cubs GO!!! |
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 hm
@videotron.ca | reply to itguy05
This video was made in alkizmo's area yesterday during the day. Got much colder at night when his pipes froze.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Hos_ut···embedded
Later on this evening, alkizmo, is going to put his tongue on his frozen copper pipes to show us how cold it is there.
Global warming can't happen fast enough for me. |
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| reply to Bink63
Windchill isn't even relevant. It's just a measure of how "it feels like", more or less.
If ambient temperature is at -23 it's not going down to -89.
Example:
If you mix the mixture of your car's antifreeze to be good to -45C, but windchill is stated to be -100000billion C, it's still -45C outside and the antifreeze is good to go and so is your car.
As your link states, that record will likely never be broken in that area of the world because the formula used to calculate that value (which is not a measurable value, and which is different in different countries) changed.
So back to the pipes. It was something like -30C in alkizmo's neck of the woods last night with a windchill of -42. Impossible for the pipes to go below -30C.
windchill value is kind of a useless value unless you want to know what temperature it would kinda-sorta-maybe feel like on your naked skin in case you get amorous with a snowman, or figure a 5km walk home after happy hour in -30C is a cool thing to do. |
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tmh
@verizon.net | reply to patcat88
said by patcat88:Dont worry about. But you are in deep trouble if propane comes out as a LIQUID.
(youtube clip)
Cool video, but so many questions.
If the temperature is so cold, that propane is liquid, how come we can still here gaseous propane escaping the tank?
And why is the propane so much colder than ambient temperature when first poured out? |
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| reply to shrug
said by shrug :Windchill isn't even relevant.
Well, I think it could be, even for alkizmo's bathroom. There is a temperature gradient from room temperature (let's just say 60F) at the inside wall of alkizmo's bathroom to -30F at the outside of the same wall because that room is exposed as he described it. If the wall and the rest of the room is well insulated, there will only slight thermal transfer from inside to outside; if the insulation is poor, then there will be a significant transfer from inside to outside. But further, in a still wind, the -30F outside is not instantaneous at the wall boundary, as whatever heat is coming from the inside will radiate into the outside air, dissipating as it gets further away from the wall. For sure, at -30F, the dissipation will be rapid and the air temperature will be at ambient -30F within a very short distance. However, with a stiff wind, that few inches of temperature gradient from the outside wall temperature to the exact point of -30F will be swept away leaving a colder boundary at the wall surface. The wall will then radiate whatever latent heat it has that much faster, which will, in turn, draw more heat out of the inside of the room if it can, i.e., if the insulation is poor and consequently a potential for thermal transfer through the wall. The water pipes, being inside the wall and closer to the cold face, will freeze sooner on a windy night than a still night of the same nominal temperature. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to tmh
said by tmh :Cool video, but so many questions.
If the temperature is so cold, that propane is liquid, how come we can still here gaseous propane escaping the tank?
And why is the propane so much colder than ambient temperature when first poured out?
The tank is not at 0 PSI, and atmosphere is close to but higher than boiling. When the propane gas/liquid escapes it depressurizes and falls a couple degrees, enough to remain a liquid in the jar. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to alkizmo
Keep the heat on, and open the cabinets to expose the pipes to the warmed air. You can open the taps so the water is running very slowly.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | reply to telco_mtl
Well I kept the bathroom door opened while I was gone (just came back) and water is running normally.
To the guy who told me to insulate the wall&pipes: Yes I did say several times I'm doing that in the summer 
said by telco_mtl:please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like.
I believe that only applies to garages at the same level as the basement.
My garage's concrete slab is at ground level.
Considering my house is 46 years old and there was no heating in the garage throughout that whole time, I doubt the floor will change.
Anyway when the basement is finished (spring), I will get around to the garage, I want a laundry room in there so I will insulate most of it. |
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| reply to alkizmo
Here's a snapshot of my indoor/outdoor thermometer in mid Jan '09. That's the coldest I recall seeing in my area of Maine. Tonight, we'll bottom out at around -18 F. |
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 DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to telco_mtl
said by telco_mtl:said by Draiman:said by telco_mtl:please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like.
How did garages survive being unheated for the last 30-50 years without any of that stuff happening? up here in quebec attached garages are always heated, but most people turn off the heat. In my moonlight gig i can tell you just pulling up to the house if the garage has had its heat turned off. Until you have been up north you really dont know the disasterous effects of adfreezing Yup.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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 JonPremium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL | reply to alkizmo
Why does every thread in this forum turn into an argument about code and safety? And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place?
Do you guys also go to Extreme Sports forums and tell them how stupid they are for rock climbing, base jumping or whatever else they may be doing? This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point? |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by Jon:Why does every thread in this forum turn into an argument about code and safety? And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place?
Do you guys also go to Extreme Sports forums and tell them how stupid they are for rock climbing, base jumping or whatever else they may be doing? This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?
+1 - I really think they are grumpy old men who need some strife in their lives to feel alive again so here they are.
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IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes! |
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| reply to alkizmo
Leave the doors to the kitchen cabinets under your sink and any bathroom vanity doors open to let more heat in near the pipes if they are on outside walls. If you haven't shut off and drained your outside faucets already, you should let them drip slightly whenever the outside temperature is below 25 degrees.
Make sure you keep any pets indoors or in a warm location overnight.
Get some lock and door latch deicer for your car if you park it outside overnight. Make sure you have enough antifreeze in the radiator. |
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Jon
said by Jon:And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? Two words. Carbon monoxide.
There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place?
Do you guys also go to Extreme Sports forums and tell them how stupid they are for rock climbing, base jumping or whatever else they may be doing? This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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 ChinaboundPremium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3 | reply to Jon
said by Jon: This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?
I used to feel the same way, and in the not so distant past. A lot of that talk was a pain in the ass to read. However, my feelings changed as I read more threads that I'd otherwise overlook. I found an abundance of wrong and dangerous suggestions. In fact, it was only a week or two ago that a thread was locked due to some (sarcastic) dangerous suggestions being made. I totally agreed with that decision, because you never know if a person is picking up on the sarcasm or not.
I'm grateful to Hellrazor and lutful for pointing a couple things out for me in my MFing Wire thread. That's one of the purposes of this forum. For me, at least.
That's the point. |
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