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<title>Topic &#x27;EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?&#x27; in forum &#x27;Home Improvement&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27940866</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 12:31:21 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 12:31:21 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27952644</link>
<description><![CDATA[garys_2k posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/790826" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=790826');">LazMan</a>:</said><p>There's a reason building code specifies exhaust vents for fuel burning stoves (I.e. your range hood) must be vented to the outside, and have a source of make-up air; most commonly tied to the HRV these days..<br> </p></div>I guess propane and natural gas ovens are exceptions, but again, I'd use a CO detector at least for peace of mind.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:06:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27951168</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/567879" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=567879');">Kearnstd</a>:</said><p>I have never heard of watts/sq m  for measuring wind chill,  what is that actually a measure of?  <br><br>Though I also never relate watts to heat.<br> </p></div>Irradiance. It's SI. <br><br>Your wind chill index was <A HREF="http://www.ec.gc.ca/meteo-weather/default.asp?lang=En&n=5FBF816A-1" >developed in Canada.</A> Yours is in degrees F, while ours in degrees C. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 08:34:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27951119</link>
<description><![CDATA[laserfan posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by hm :</said><p>And once again, just wish to point out. Heaters in trailers and mobile homes are propane all over Vermont and NY. Mine had one. But I closed up the summer place in November, didn't have this all winter long. But I have seen many with this over there all winter long. Just saying. No one died.</p></div>Well, I was talking about VENTLESS heaters. Properly vented propane heaters/furnaces are no problem at all. I wish I'd had such installed myself for whole-house heating, instead of relying on (noisy) heat pumps.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:46:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27951074</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/790826" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=790826');">LazMan</a>:</said><p>As for remote car starters, also by code, the garage must be sealed from the occupied portion of the house, and the seal must be gas proof, including caulking around all penetrations; the door must have a gasket, and an automatic closer...  </p></div>In-law's place in Montreal has an attached garage.  The door to the garage does not have an automatic closer.  The living spaces above (8 units, I think) do not have carbon monoxide detectors.<br><br>I don't think people are stupid enough to run a car in a closed garage, but the cars can be started accidentally.  Suppose a 3 year-old starts playing with the buttons on a keyfob.<br><br>I never heard of a requirement that residential gas ranges/ovens have an exhaust vent.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:27:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27950977</link>
<description><![CDATA[Kearnstd posted : I have never heard of watts/sq m  for measuring wind chill,  what is that actually a measure of?  <br><br>Though I also never relate watts to heat.<br><small>--<br>[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 03:12:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27950897</link>
<description><![CDATA[telco_mtl posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/790826" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=790826');">LazMan</a>:</said><p> It's foolish to run your car in the garage for extended lentghs of time with the garage door closed, but the law has taken steps to protect people from themselves...<br> </p></div>sadly in my experience here in the montreal area there is a hell of a lot of houses in the montreal area built pre 1970 with forced air heat that have a return AND heat duct in the garage. My usual recomendation for these is seal them and install a pair of electric baseboards set to +/- 12c]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:52:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27950240</link>
<description><![CDATA[LazMan posted : There's a reason building code specifies exhaust vents for fuel burning stoves (I.e. your range hood) must be vented to the outside, and have a source of make-up air; most commonly tied to the HRV these days..<br><br>Ventless heaters, ranges, grills, etc all produce carbon monoxide - more efficient and properly adjusted ones produce less, but they all produce some, as a product of combustion...  Ventless heaters and ventless gas fireplace logs are against code in Canada for a reason.  Using a BBQ grill indoors is just stupid.<br><br>As for remote car starters, also by code, the garage must be sealed from the occupied portion of the house, and the seal must be gas proof, including caulking around all penetrations; the door must have a gasket, and an automatic closer...  It's also code that there is no air exchange (heat vents or returns) within the garage space.<br><br> It's foolish to run your car in the garage for extended lentghs of time with the garage door closed, but the law has taken steps to protect people from themselves...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:31:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27949210</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1140301" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1140301');">laserfan</a>:</said><p>Cooking: OK. Primary Heating: Not OK. Small space or bedroom: NOT OKAY! Not designed as a home heating device: NOT OK! Pay attention, or risk one day waking-up dead!<br><br>;)<br> </p></div>And once again, just wish to point out. Heaters in trailers and mobile homes are propane all over Vermont and NY. Mine had one. But I closed up the summer place in November, didn't have this all winter long. But I have seen many with this over there all winter long. Just saying. No one died.<br><br>I also seem to recall visiting people there mid-Feb and there was a problem at times with propane with it was very very cold. Don't recall what it was now. Too long ago.  Anyhow you can google propane heating and propane anything in the States.<br><br>Hey, who hijacked this topic and switch it to a topic about propane?<br><br>It's just odd to see over here unless you are in a summer only trailer park off a lake. In the States it's all over the place in residential homes. Kinda like Kerosene heaters. Never saw one here, but when I was in the states, lots of people had one running in their living rooms.<br><br>Differences...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:26:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27949038</link>
<description><![CDATA[laserfan posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1003137" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1003137');">garys_2k</a>:</said><p>I hear what you're saying and I think that burning propane, itself, indoors and unvented isn't necessarily a hazard. Plenty of kitchen ranges and ovens run on propane without incident even in the winter with the house as closed up as it can be.<br><br>Now, in the case of a <u>grill</u>, it may be different. Many grills have the flames impinge on rocks or metal plates/bars that then radiate heat to sear the food and cause drippings to smoke. Having the flames interact with those rocks/plates MAY interfere with complete combustion (I don't know) but it does seem possible.<br><br>In any case, I'd definitely suggest a working CO detector in the room if running any unvented combustion (even a natural gas range or oven). The cost of the detector and its peace of mind seem, to me, to be worthwhile.</p></div>We acquired a ventless propane heater (Vermont Castings) for one of the rooms in our house, and I was skeptical that anything with an open flame was safe to use.<br><br>The short version of the story is that modern ventless heaters are designed for extremely efficient combustion with minimal noxious by-products, but they are NEVER to be used as primary heating systems and ALWAYS need to have plenty of combustion air (oxygen) available to them, i.e there are cubic foot requirements for any such heater less-than-which one mustn't install-to. Ours is in a 20x30 vaulted ceiling "great room" with lotsa windows (which of course leak) thus it's safe. We have birds that are healthy after 10 years so I can say that with confidence.<br><br>Cooking: OK. Primary Heating: Not OK. Small space or bedroom: NOT OKAY! Not designed as a home heating device: NOT OK! Pay attention, or risk one day waking-up dead!<br><br>;)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:00:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27948990</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>It's probably less of a hazard than cars with remote start (very popular in Canada) being parked in attached garages.<br> </p></div>Both are hazards. I don't see a lot of remote starter systems here. Perhaps in Quebec. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:34:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27948798</link>
<description><![CDATA[Sc0tt posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/291526" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=291526');">Jon</a>:</said><p>Why does every thread in this forum turn into an argument about code and safety? And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place? <br><br> </p></div>an entire family of 5 directly next door to my work was taken to the hospital, nearly dead from carbon monoxide poisining, because after Sandy they tried to cook inside with a small camping hibachi powered with propane.<br><br>feel free to try it if you wish, just be warned of the consequences. <br><br>***edit--it was 6, and the story had the grill shown as charcoal. either one can potentially kill you though. YMMV.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:58:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27948324</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : It's probably less of a hazard than cars with remote start (very popular in Canada) being parked in attached garages.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:30:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27948538</link>
<description><![CDATA[nonymous posted : &raquo;<A HREF="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZWosw9GxCBg/UPVrj0WXKGI/AAAAAAAAAP0/9NZvmlO-lMU/w297-h396-k/20130114_085405%25280%2529.jpg" >lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZWosw&middot;&middot;&middot;2529.jpg</A><br><br>Moms moms home a few weeks ago. Lost a few rooms of old carpet. This in photo and a few wall boards. Plus the picture. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:15:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27948095</link>
<description><![CDATA[garys_2k posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/350435" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=350435');">DKS</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/291526" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=291526');">Jon</a>:</said><p>And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? </p></div>Two words. <b>Carbon monoxide</b>. <br><br></p></div>I hear what you're saying and I think that burning propane, itself, indoors and unvented isn't necessarily a hazard. Plenty of kitchen ranges and ovens run on propane without incident even in the winter with the house as closed up as it can be.<br><br>Now, in the case of a <u>grill</u>, it may be different. Many grills have the flames impinge on rocks or metal plates/bars that then radiate heat to sear the food and cause drippings to smoke. Having the flames interact with those rocks/plates MAY interfere with complete combustion (I don't know) but it does seem possible.<br><br>In any case, I'd definitely suggest a working CO detector in the room if running any unvented combustion (even a natural gas range or oven). The cost of the detector and its peace of mind seem, to me, to be worthwhile.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:55:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27948048</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>Your natural gas / propane stove is vented to the outside?  I never saw a gas stove with any sort of vent.<br> </p></div>I don't have a gas/propane stove and never said I did. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:35:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27947547</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : Your natural gas / propane stove is vented to the outside?  I never saw a gas stove with any sort of vent.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:43:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27947307</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/350435" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=350435');">DKS</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/291526" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=291526');">Jon</a>:</said><p>And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? </p></div>Two words. <b>Carbon monoxide</b>.<br><br><div class="bquote"><p>There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place? </p></div>Those devices are all properly vented to the outside. I have a natural gas furnace and water heater. Both are vented to the outside. The furnace also has an outside air intake.<br> </p></div>Here where we live DKS, it would be rather uncommon to see. Mention propane and you get the mental picture of a one-toothed hillbilly who married his sister and roasting a steak on an outdoor grill in his kitchen with a little white propane tank next to it.<br><br>Kind of easy to get this mental picture from where we're from. But I do on the rare occasion see a propane hook-up to a non-restaurant out in the sticks.<br><br>But over in warmer states (I guess) I can see this. Just like they have propane for their stoves and ovens over there, and I have seen this in trailer parks out in Vermont, Maine and Newyork.<br><br>Most every mobile home uses this. Mine did when I had a mobile out on a lake in the states.<br><br>There does exist some very nice set-ups (restaurant quality) with very big and nice fume hoods over them.<br><br>All this really goes to show is the mental picture people from different parts of the world can get. It isn't trolling as what the guy above proclaimed. Just differences of where people live.<br><br>But hey, if he want to come out and say he does this on his Coleman camping stove... :p]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:20:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[Chinabound posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/291526" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=291526');">Jon</a>:</said><p> This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?<br> </p></div>I used to feel the same way, and in the not so distant past.  A lot of that talk was a pain in the ass to read.  However, my feelings changed as I read more threads that I'd otherwise overlook.  I found an abundance of wrong and dangerous suggestions.  In fact, it was only a week or two ago that a thread was locked due to some (sarcastic) dangerous suggestions being made.  I totally agreed with that decision, because you never know if a person is picking up on the sarcasm or not.  <br><br>I'm grateful to Hellrazor and lutful for pointing a couple things out for me in my MFing Wire thread.  That's one of the purposes of this forum.  For me, at least.<br>That's the point.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:11:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27947279</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/291526" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=291526');">Jon</a>:</said><p>And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? </p></div>Two words. <b>Carbon monoxide</b>. <br><br><div class="bquote"><p>There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place? </p></div>Those devices are all properly vented to the outside. I have a natural gas furnace and water heater. Both are vented to the outside. The furnace also has an outside air intake. <br><br><div class="bquote"><p>Do you guys also go to Extreme Sports forums and tell them how stupid they are for rock climbing, base jumping or whatever else they may be doing?  This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?<br> </p></div>as if you know the risks? If you want to engage in risky behaviour, that is your choice. But at least know the risks. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:00:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<description><![CDATA[8744675 posted : Leave the doors to the kitchen cabinets under your sink and any bathroom vanity doors open to let more heat in near the pipes if they are on outside walls.  If you haven't shut off and drained your outside faucets already, you should let them drip slightly whenever the outside temperature is below 25 degrees.<br><br>Make sure you keep any pets indoors or in a warm location overnight. <br><br>Get some lock and door latch deicer for your car if you park it outside overnight.  Make sure you have enough antifreeze in the radiator. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:49:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
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<description><![CDATA[Draiman posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/291526" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=291526');">Jon</a>:</said><p>Why does every thread in this forum turn into an argument about code and safety? And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place? <br><br>Do you guys also go to Extreme Sports forums and tell them how stupid they are for rock climbing, base jumping or whatever else they may be doing?  This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?<br> </p></div>+1 - I really think they are grumpy old men who need some strife in their lives to feel alive again so here they are.<br><small>--<br>IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:06:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27946877</link>
<description><![CDATA[Jon posted : Why does every thread in this forum turn into an argument about code and safety? And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? There are houses all over the world that run entirely on propane. How is it different from a propane powered stove or furnace or fire place? <br><br>Do you guys also go to Extreme Sports forums and tell them how stupid they are for rock climbing, base jumping or whatever else they may be doing?  This used to be a cool forum until all the know-it-alls came along. Now every response is "ILLEGAL" or "Call a professional". What's the point?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:01:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27946265</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1818925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1818925');">telco_mtl</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1833617" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1833617');">Draiman</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1818925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1818925');">telco_mtl</a>:</said><p>please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like. <br> </p></div>How did garages survive being unheated for the last 30-50 years without any of that stuff happening?<br> </p></div>up here in quebec attached garages are always heated, but most people turn off the heat. In my moonlight gig i can tell you just pulling up to the house if the garage has had its heat turned off. Until you have been up north you really dont know the disasterous effects of adfreezing<br> </p></div>Yup. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:17:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27944618</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : Here's a snapshot of my indoor/outdoor thermometer in mid Jan '09. That's the coldest I recall seeing in my area of Maine. Tonight, we'll bottom out at around -18 F.<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27944618?c=2069302&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzk0MDg2Ni54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="145042 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=519 HEIGHT=781 SRC="/r0/download/2069302~47947451897d56478dfb27bf4854d3ac/cold.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:47:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27944615</link>
<description><![CDATA[alkizmo posted : Well I kept the bathroom door opened while I was gone (just came back) and water is running normally.<br><br>To the guy who told me to insulate the wall&pipes: Yes I did say several times I'm doing that in the summer :p<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1818925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1818925');">telco_mtl</a>:</said><p>please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like. <br> </p></div>I believe that only applies to garages at the same level as the basement.<br>My garage's concrete slab is at ground level.<br>Considering my house is 46 years old and there was no heating in the garage throughout that whole time, I doubt the floor will change.<br><br>Anyway when the basement is finished (spring), I will get around to the garage, I want a laundry room in there so I will insulate most of it.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:39:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27944446</link>
<description><![CDATA[KrK posted : Keep the heat on, and open the cabinets to expose the pipes to the warmed air.   You can open the taps so the water is running very slowly.    <br><small>--<br>"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:39:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27944017</link>
<description><![CDATA[patcat88 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by tmh :</said><p>Cool video, but so many questions.<br><br>If the temperature is so cold, that propane is liquid, how come we can still here gaseous propane escaping the tank?<br><br>And why is the propane so much colder than ambient temperature when first poured out?<br> </p></div>The tank is not at 0 PSI, and atmosphere is close to but higher than boiling. When the propane gas/liquid escapes it depressurizes and falls a couple degrees, enough to remain a liquid in the jar.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:24:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943951</link>
<description><![CDATA[dick white posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by shrug :</said><p>Windchill isn't even relevant.<br> </p></div>Well, I think it could be, even for alkizmo's bathroom. There is a temperature gradient from room temperature (let's just say 60F) at the inside wall of alkizmo's bathroom to -30F at the outside of the same wall because that room is exposed as he described it. If the wall and the rest of the room is well insulated, there will only slight thermal transfer from inside to outside; if the insulation is poor, then there will be a significant transfer from inside to outside. But further, in a still wind, the -30F outside is not instantaneous at the wall boundary, as whatever heat is coming from the inside will radiate into the outside air, dissipating as it gets further away from the wall. For sure, at -30F, the dissipation will be rapid and the air temperature will be at ambient -30F within a very short distance. However, with a stiff wind, that few inches of temperature gradient from the outside wall temperature to the exact point of -30F will be swept away leaving a colder boundary at the wall surface. The wall will then radiate whatever latent heat it has that much faster, which will, in turn, draw more heat out of the inside of the room if it can, i.e., if the insulation is poor and consequently a potential for thermal transfer through the wall. The water pipes, being inside the wall and closer to the cold face, will freeze sooner on a windy night than a still night of the same nominal temperature. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:01:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943786</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/611909" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=611909');">patcat88</a>:</said><p>Dont worry about. But you are in deep trouble if propane comes out as a LIQUID.<br>(youtube clip)<br> </p></div>Cool video, but so many questions.<br><br>If the temperature is so cold, that propane is liquid, how come we can still here gaseous propane escaping the tank?<br><br>And why is the propane so much colder than ambient temperature when first poured out?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:28:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943521</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : Windchill isn't even relevant. It's just a measure of how "it feels like", more or less.<br><br>If ambient temperature is at -23 it's not going down to -89.<br>Example:<br>If you mix the mixture of your car's antifreeze to be good to -45C, but windchill is stated to be -100000billion C, it's still -45C outside and the antifreeze is good to go and so is your car.<br><br>As your link states, that record will likely never be broken in that area of the world because the formula used to calculate that value (which is not a measurable value, and which is different in different countries) changed.<br><br>So back to the pipes. It was something like -30C in alkizmo's neck of the woods last night with a windchill of -42. Impossible for the pipes to go below -30C.<br><br>windchill value is kind of a useless value unless you want to know what temperature it would kinda-sorta-maybe feel like on your naked skin in case you get amorous with a snowman, or figure a 5km walk home after happy hour in -30C is a cool thing to do.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:25:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943290</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : This video was made in alkizmo's area yesterday during the day. Got much colder at night when his pipes froze.<br><br><p><div style='z-index:0; text-align:center;display:block;'><object width='425' height='350'><param name='movie' value="http://www.youtube.com/v/62Hos_utIAs"><param name=wmode value="transparent"><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/62Hos_utIAs" type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350' allowscriptaccess='samedomain'></embed></object></div></p><center>&raquo;<A HREF="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Hos_utIAs&feature=player_embedded" >www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Hos_ut&middot;&middot;&middot;embedded</A></center><br><br>Later on this evening, alkizmo, is going to put his tongue on his frozen copper pipes to show us how cold it is there.<br><br>Global warming can't happen fast enough for me.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:46:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943440</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bink63 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1466375" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1466375');">alkizmo</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/163824" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=163824');">SparkChaser</a>:</said><p>it's -8C right now, I don't even want to think of -30 </p></div>-8C is quite comfy ;)<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/163824" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=163824');">SparkChaser</a>:</said><p>You mean Irony?</p></div>You didn't see my Home Simpsons reference?<br>Yes I mean irony.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/594077" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=594077');">jrs8084</a>:</said><p>From somebody who grew up in northern IL (and remembers -30 and -80 wind chills), the most important thing you can do is get on your knees and pray that the furnace doesn't tear up or the power goes out. <br> </p></div>-80 windchills?!?!?!? Are you kidding me? You gotta be kidding me, I don't believe you.<br><br> </p></div>"Dear Tom,<br><br>What was the lowest wind chill ever recorded in Chicago?<br><br>&#151;Earl Friedman<br><br>Dear Earl,<br><br>Chicago's lowest wind chill was recorded on a horribly cold Christmas Eve in 1983 when a temperature of minus 23 and a 29 mph wind combined to produce the record low wind chill of 82 below zero.<br><br>That is one climate record that will probably never be broken."<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-18/news/ct-wea-0119-asktom-20110118_1_wind-chill-new-formula-mph-wind" >articles.chicagotribune.com/2011&middot;&middot;&middot;mph-wind</A><br><br>Side note: Tom Skilling is the world's highest paid Meteorologist for a GOOD reason.<br><small>--<br>Hopefully the Ministry Of Truth and Thought Police can sort this whole thing out.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://twitter.com/Bink63" >twitter.com/Bink63</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.legacypcs.com" >www.legacypcs.com</A><br>Frank Shoemaker would call this noise<br>GO Cubs GO!!!</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:34:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943438</link>
<description><![CDATA[patcat88 posted : Get a hammer (rip off drywall) and some fiberglass or styrofoam board and insulate the walls. The ground does not freeze below the frost line.  Replace the drywall with 3/8 ply or osb to make maintenance easier in the future.  Be careful of firewalls/code. Fastest way to dewater any pipe is compressed air. Make a QC to GHT fitting, attach to a hose tap, then drain each water fixture one by one until air is coming out. Toilets will require using the shutoff valve since tank won't refill. Best thing is to have a garden hose tap after your meter to inject air. Yes, its illegal due to no backflow preventer. Use non toxic pink RV anti freeze in toilet bowls and all traps.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:33:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943393</link>
<description><![CDATA[patcat88 posted : Dont worry about. But you are in deep trouble if propane comes out as a LIQUID. <p><div style='z-index:0; text-align:center;display:block;'><object width='425' height='350'><param name='movie' value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9wbX9tN7Y9Y"><param name=wmode value="transparent"><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9wbX9tN7Y9Y" type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350' allowscriptaccess='samedomain'></embed></object></div></p><center> &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wbX9tN7Y9Y" >www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wbX9tN7Y9Y</A></center>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:22:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27943222</link>
<description><![CDATA[itguy05 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>I'm talking about the things that look like battery chargers, with heavy cables and spring-loaded clamps on the ends.  They put a large current through the pipes, generating heat and melting the ice.  The advantage is that they work on pipes that are <B>completely inaccessible</B>, as long as you can connect the two clamps at least 20 feet(?) apart.<br> </p></div>Interesting.  Did not know such a thing existed.  Sort of an induction heater for pipes...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:26:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942815</link>
<description><![CDATA[telco_mtl posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1833617" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1833617');">Draiman</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1818925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1818925');">telco_mtl</a>:</said><p>please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like. <br> </p></div>How did garages survive being unheated for the last 30-50 years without any of that stuff happening?<br> </p></div>up here in quebec attached garages are always heated, but most people turn off the heat. In my moonlight gig i can tell you just pulling up to the house if the garage has had its heat turned off. Until you have been up north you really dont know the disasterous effects of adfreezing]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:17:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942786</link>
<description><![CDATA[Draiman posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1818925" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1818925');">telco_mtl</a>:</said><p>please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like. <br> </p></div>How did garages survive being unheated for the last 30-50 years without any of that stuff happening?<br><small>--<br>IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:10:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942779</link>
<description><![CDATA[telco_mtl posted : please tell me you are heating the garage? in this weather if you dont heat an attached garage you will get floor heaves, cracks and the like. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:07:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942617</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : I'm talking about the things that look like battery chargers, with heavy cables and spring-loaded clamps on the ends.  They put a large current through the pipes, generating heat and melting the ice.  The advantage is that they work on pipes that are <B>completely inaccessible</B>, as long as you can connect the two clamps at least 20 feet(?) apart.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:18:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942530</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : I don't know what this tape is I see people talking about, but the pipe cable will run fairly cheap.<br><br>25 to 75$ deepening on length. Not anywhere near 1000$.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchView?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&langId=-15&N=0&Ntt=Electric+Pipe+Heating+Cable&Nty=1&D=Electric+Pipe+Heating+Cable&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&s=true" >www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stor&middot;&middot;&middot;l&s=true</A><br><br>Or just toss in some electric heaters, if he has them. Or run to Costco for a couple of them (heater fans) at 40$ a pop (on special this week). They heat a room very very good and very fast.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:06:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942422</link>
<description><![CDATA[itguy05 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>Get an electric pipe thawer (Google it).  They run close to $1000.<br> </p></div>Or you could get those pipe tapes that plug in and clip to the pipes.  The parents have an issue with a cold water pipe in their house.  It's in an addition with a crawl space and sometimes the cold water pipe would freeze.  I installed one of them quite a few years ago and it's worked beautifully.  It definitely was well under $1000, my guess would be $30-50.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:23:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942144</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : Leave a trickle (steady stream) of water running while you're out today.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 07:46:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942155</link>
<description><![CDATA[alkizmo posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1838228" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1838228');">Bob</a>:</said><p>Get an electric pipe thawer (Google it).  They run close to $1000.<br> </p></div>Hell no :p<br><br>This summer I'm supposed to make a small laundry room in the back of my garage (where it shares the wall with the problematic bathroom). I'll insulate the walls at that time and the problem will be over.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 07:15:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942129</link>
<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : Get an electric pipe thawer (Google it).  They run close to $1000.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 07:13:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942133</link>
<description><![CDATA[alkizmo posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/350435" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=350435');">DKS</a>:</said><p>Incredibly dangerous idea. Stoves use air to burn. Your house is fairly air tight. The stove will use up the oxygen in the air, producing carbon monoxide. Your wife will be a widow. Your children will have no father. Don't ever run a stove, propane furnace or generator indoors.  <br> </p></div>Oh I have CO detectors with a battery back up. I'd be fine. Also, the stove was made to be run indoor, but ya that stove needs to be inspected when I'm almost done with the basement.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/350435" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=350435');">DKS</a>:</said><p>Another very dangerous idea. An unattended space heater is a fire hazard. Overheat switches don't always work. <A HREF="http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1126764" > Excellent video on risks and benefits of space heaters here. </A><br> </p></div>I have an oil passive space heater. Set at 400W it will only get as warm as the air coming out of my registers. Basically it's less dangerous than an electric baseboard.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/350435" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=350435');">DKS</a>:</said><p>I have used an electric blow drier set to high to thaw pipes, if they are accessible. <br> </p></div>The problem is that the location of the pipe where it's frozen is inside a wall (between the garage and the bathroom). So I can't thaw it with an hair dryer.<br><br>However, good news guys, everything's unblocked. Leaving the door open and letting my space heater run overnight fixed the problem.<br>I'll turn off the space heater but keep the door open. I finish work late today so when I come back, if it'S still okay then I won't need to use the space heater.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:42:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942125</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1466375" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1466375');">alkizmo</a>:</said><p>How's this: I place a small space heater set to 400w (for safety so it doesn't get too hot in one spot) to keep the room at a decent temperature. In the basement, underneath that bathroom, the temperature is fine, it's not freezing cold. So it's really just the bathroom itself.<br> </p></div>I have used an electric blow drier set to high to thaw pipes, if they are accessible. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:30:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942122</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1390483" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1390483');">Juggernaut</a>:</said><p>Might want to put a small space heater in there, and close the door. <br> </p></div>Another very dangerous idea. An unattended space heater is a fire hazard. Overheat switches don't always work. <A HREF="http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1126764" > Excellent video on risks and benefits of space heaters here. </A><br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:29:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-EXTREME-freezing-temperatures-What-to-worry-about-27942117</link>
<description><![CDATA[DKS posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1466375" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1466375');">alkizmo</a>:</said><p>At least I have a little gas stove in the basement if the power or furnace go out. It's a construction yard down there, but I'm willing to setup a camping ground if it comes to it :p<br> </p></div>Incredibly dangerous idea. Stoves use air to burn. Your house is fairly air tight. The stove will use up the oxygen in the air, producing carbon monoxide. Your wife will be a widow. Your children will have no father. Don't ever run a stove, propane furnace or generator indoors.  <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:26:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?</title>
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<description><![CDATA[Bob posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/239636" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=239636');">tschmidt</a>:</said><p>Turning off the water is not going to help unless you are able to drain it. </p></div>It will reduce the subsequent amount of flooding if the pipe breaks.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 05:36:11 EDT</pubDate>
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