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ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA

[T-Mobile] PAYG and PBTD prepaid plans for backup purposes

I'm very unclear with T-Mobile USA prepaid offerings.

With »prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/pay-···ne-plans, you only pay on the days you use the service, right? How do you top-up, and how long is the top-up good for? What if I only need to use 10 days a year, can I pay 10$/year on such an account? I recall that with AT&T PBTD with unlimited SMS, they only charge you for the day once you send an SMS, receiving SMS don't get you charged; is T-Mo same or different?

With »prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/pay-···go-plans, when you top-up 10$, you don't actually get any minutes, right? Why do they claim you get XX minutes? You just get the funds, and they expire after 90 days in case of 10$, right? (Then you can presumably use the funds for either the minutes or the SMS.) Can you top up several 10$ in a row, and get a 90 × the-number-of-top-ups days of service? Do the funds always rollover, as long as you don't let the number of days expire?

Can several of such PAYG and PBTD accounts be managed under the same web account, and topped up from the web-interface?


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
All carrier website are bad and they are unfortunately getting worse.

T-mobile you top-up the same ways for all account, the difference is what happens with the funds.

Pay by the day, funds do not expire, phone works as long as you have funds in your account (to start a day). I think you pay for incoming text, e.g. count as a day.

Pay as you go, funds do expire, funds to minute conversion rate depending on your status (at time of top up) and top up amount. Multiple top up do not get you multiple 90 days. Funds do roll over if you top up before expire date.

You want to hit GOLD reward status if you use pay as you go. Once you have this status you can top up $10 and be good for a year. You never lose GOLD reward status as long as account is active.

Start with $100 and top up $10 every six month. That gives you an ongoing cost per year of $20 with never expiring minutes.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by Hagar:

Pay by the day, funds do not expire, phone works as long as you have funds in your account (to start a day). I think you pay for incoming text, e.g. count as a day.

Are you sure that's the case? That would be an uber-cheap back up solution, if that were true! But I highly doubt that it is true: they certainly don't want people hoarding resources and paying absolutely nothing for so long. There are certainly at least some kind of rules for fund expiration and account suspension.

In the store, they said that a 10-dollar credit with PBTD still expires after 90 days. But, of course, their marketing department doesn't think that providing any kind of information about the actual terms is at all important.

(FWIIW, I know for a fact that AT&T PBTD funds do expire after 90 days for a 25$ topup, but at least it's clearly documented as such.)

said by Hagar:

You want to hit GOLD reward status if you use pay as you go. Once you have this status you can top up $10 and be good for a year. You never lose GOLD reward status as long as account is active.

Start with $100 and top up $10 every six month. That gives you an ongoing cost per year of $20 with never expiring minutes.

Wait-wait-wait, this would be very strange, too. Are you sure that when you top up 10$ onto a Gold account, that your renewal date moves 12 months from the date of the 10$ topup? This would be great and awesome, however, I think a more likely implementation is that your date simply changes to the longest of the original date or the 90 days from the date of the topup. And this "max(leftover days, 90 days)" formula was actually verbally given to me at a tmo store.

If what you say is true, two years would cost 110$, or 120$ with early renewal, a pretty good deal -- 5$/mo, with no renewal worries several times a year. Whereas with 10$/90day, it'd cost 81,11$ or 90$ [as in, 10$ * ((365days * 2) / 90 days)], but give you lots of renewal headaches. I'd definitely sign up with Gold, but I think without a definitive answer, you just risk loosing 50$ in the first year.

Can someone confirm how 10$ topups actually work with a Gold account?

So, the question is far from being resolved. I think T-Mo's fine print is the most uninformative fine print I've ever seen.

UPDATE: Actually, it seems you're right!

»prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/pay-···ans-faqs

quote:
If you applied a $100 refill or have already reached Gold Rewards status, service is available for one year from the date you last applied a refill.

I don't understand why it's a FAQ, though. It should be in the fine print. I've spent an hour with several associates in a tmo store yesterday, and noone told me that I could get gold and save over 3 years. They simply tried telling me that I'd be getting more minutes, after I've explicitly told them that I want to maximise the time before account suspension, instead of the airtime minutes!

So, do you also get Gold through 10 10$ topups? Seems like that might even be cheaper, although may have a bit more headache, since I was told in the store that you can't automatically topup every 3 months, only 1 month or less options are supposedly available. Anyone knows if there is a reliable way to automatically topup a week or so before the day-based suspension?


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to ConstantineM
I did not use the pay by the day plan so I am not 100% sure. I went with the pay as you go, not using it any more.

You can use 10* $10 top ups to reach gold reward, but you do not want to. The 10*$10 top ups give you 10*30=300 min for your $100. A 1* $100 top up give you 1000 min.

1) Start with $100 to get gold reward
2) Top up minimum and check usage patter until account is close to zero minutes
I topped up every six month so a hiccup in top up would not deactivate account
Not 100% sure if you what happens if you only do it once a year on the same day, too afraid you will lose rollover.
3) Pick top up amount so you get maximum minutes for current usage.
Still do twice a year, you do not want to lose your gold reward. First the expected usage for the year second top up minimum just to be safe.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by Hagar:

You can use 10* $10 top ups to reach gold reward, but you do not want to. The 10*$10 top ups give you 10*30=300 min for your $100. A 1* $100 top up give you 1000 min.

That only matters if you're actually using the account, or using the voice minutes (as opposed to SMS). If there would have been a reliable way to top up 4 or so days prior to expiration, then 10 topups every 90 days or so would potentially be cheaper, although, granted, the difference would be rather negligible anyways (365 * 2 / 90 is 8.1, e.g. 100$ would give you more than two years of service with 10$ topups), especially considering the extra headaches.

But the Gold status that makes every topup extend the lifetime of the account by 1 year, seems legit and very useful for a backup account indeed. You don't have to keep any balance itself to keep the gold status, correct? Just have to make sure you always topup before the year since the prior topup expires?

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to ConstantineM

Re: [T-Mobile] PBTD prepaid plans for backup purposes

said by ConstantineM:

With »prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/pay-···ne-plans, you only pay on the days you use the service, right? How do you top-up, and how long is the top-up good for? What if I only need to use 10 days a year, can I pay 10$/year on such an account? I recall that with AT&T PBTD with unlimited SMS, they only charge you for the day once you send an SMS, receiving SMS don't get you charged; is T-Mo same or different?

So, it seems like if you click on the COMPARISON CHART graphics, you finally get some relevant fine print for Pay by the Day.

quote:
Limited time offer; subject to change. Taxes and fees additional. Not all plans or features available on all devices. Prepaid - Pay By The Day: Features available for 30 days; if sufficient account balance, plans automatically renew at the end of 30 days. If balance is insufficient to renew for 60 days, account will be converted to Prepaid - Pay As You Go. Prepaid - Pay As You Go: Service available for 90 days (one year for Gold Rewards) after activation/refill/conversion. After that, your account will be suspended and no service will be available. Gold Rewards requires activation of $100 in refills; you must refill while on Prepaid - Pay As You Go plan to obtain full Gold Rewards benefits. DayPass: ...
So, it does seem as if your balance might never expire; additionally, nice to know that even if it does expire, you'd still have at least 90 days to topup.

However, the language still makes very little sense: what features are available for 30 days? How would the plan renew? Talking about 30-days and 30-day renewals with a Pay by the Day plan makes very little sense to me. Also, it seems to contradict what store associates would tell you, so, I'm kinda not surprised that noone at T-Mo has any idea of how any of these plans work.


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
Yes T-mobile has problems telling us what the rules are

1) I do not trust CS since they cannot handle what-if scenarios that they have not been trained for
2) I do trust web site for what it says that make sense. I have problems with what web site says that does not make sense. I am scared for what web site does not say but the billing system will enforce.

Apparently pay by the day funds expire after 90 days, except if you are gold reward status then they expire after one year. Apparently you can switch back and forth between pay as you go and pay by the day (I knew this) and keep your gold reward status (I did not know this).

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by Hagar:

Apparently pay by the day funds expire after 90 days, except if you are gold reward status then they expire after one year.

How do you know this? That's not what my impression is, based on the quote I've provided.

said by Hagar:

Apparently you can switch back and forth between pay as you go and pay by the day (I knew this) and keep your gold reward status (I did not know this).

Interesting. Is it limited to one switch per 30 days, or is it not?

This whole thing is ridiculously complicated. Their whole fine print sounds like marketing bs, instead of something that would have been written by the engineers and verified by the lawyers. I bet if my lawyer would look at their fine print, he'd not resist to repeat his "lawyers must have been busy that day" catchphrase....


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
said by ConstantineM:

said by Hagar:

Apparently pay by the day funds expire after 90 days, except if you are gold reward status then they expire after one year.

How do you know this? That's not what my impression is, based on the quote I've provided.

said by Hagar:

Apparently you can switch back and forth between pay as you go and pay by the day (I knew this) and keep your gold reward status (I did not know this).

Interesting. Is it limited to one switch per 30 days, or is it not?

This whole thing is ridiculously complicated. Their whole fine print sounds like marketing bs, instead of something that would have been written by the engineers and verified by the lawyers. I bet if my lawyer would look at their fine print, he'd not resist to repeat his "lawyers must have been busy that day" catchphrase....

redholm is correct in stating that your gold status funds last 1 year but you can only get gold status using pay-by-the minute to start, add $100 then switch to pay-by-the day. Also you can switch back and forth as often as you want unless you've already paid for the day in which case paygo will start the next day.
--



Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
bobjohnson, thank you for the confirmation and that you can switch back and forth that often (I did not know that).

I just checked, the option to switch between pay as you go and pay by the day where available on my t-mobile web site, when I am logon to my account.

That means if you are on pay as you go with gold status and you know that you want to use data, make a 10 min call and or send 10 messages then you switch to pay by the day. That is pretty sweet.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
The fact that you could switch once doesn't mean that you could switch back. Or could you switch back and forth any number of times?

I recall AT&T's PAYG plans were limited to one switch every 30 days a couple of years back (and probably still are).


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
Sorry can not test, I now have the $30 5GB monthly 4G plan. If I change plan I can not get back to this plan without getting a new SIM card.

I found people who switch from pay as you go to pay by day and back within a day. They tried to switch back just before 11:59 pm local time but t-mobile messed up the time zone and charged them for two days. Web site says local time so a call to t-mobile refunded the extra day. Nobody reported problems with the single day switching back and forth.

They also reported you can do it on the web or 611.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

The fact that you could switch once doesn't mean that you could switch back. Or could you switch back and forth any number of times?

I recall AT&T's PAYG plans were limited to one switch every 30 days a couple of years back (and probably still are).

Like I mentioned in my previous post, you can switch from paygo to by-the day as many times as you need to. The only thing that makes a difference is if you have already paid for the day (used the phone) and switch to paygo, the change will take effect on the next morning.
--



bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
reply to ConstantineM

Re: [T-Mobile] PAYG and PBTD prepaid plans for backup purposes

said by ConstantineM:

said by Hagar:

You can use 10* $10 top ups to reach gold reward, but you do not want to. The 10*$10 top ups give you 10*30=300 min for your $100. A 1* $100 top up give you 1000 min.

But the Gold status that makes every topup extend the lifetime of the account by 1 year, seems legit and very useful for a backup account indeed. You don't have to keep any balance itself to keep the gold status, correct? Just have to make sure you always topup before the year since the prior topup expires?

Once you're gold status, every topup extends your service for a year from the day you add it. And BTW, you can get to gold $10 at a time.
--


ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
said by bobjohnson:

Once you're gold status, every topup extends your service for a year from the day you add it. And BTW, you can get to gold $10 at a time.

Thought more about this:

I have the unlimited 5GB@4G@30$/mo account, topped up (30$ at a time) way above 100$, never more than a couple of days without service, but ma.web2go.com page says "Use By: 06/08/2013" and "Next Charge Date: 02/09/2013".

What's up with that, and isn't it supposed to say "Use By: 01/08/2014" since I'm supposed to have reached the gold status by now?


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
No, because you only get the gold status on pay-as-you go. The monthly plans don't count toward it. Once you are gold status it will extend for a year. The monthly plan takes $30 a month whether you use it or not. That's why it only works with paygo or by the day.

bbear2
Premium
join:2003-10-06
94045
kudos:5
reply to Hagar

Re: [T-Mobile] PBTD prepaid plans for backup purposes

said by Hagar:

Sorry can not test, I now have the $30 5GB monthly 4G plan. If I change plan I can not get back to this plan without getting a new SIM card....

If you're willing to go through the trouble, a new SIM card is actually free: »prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prep···im-cards

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to bobjohnson

Re: [T-Mobile] PAYG and PBTD prepaid plans for backup purposes

said by bobjohnson:

Once you're gold status, every topup extends your service for a year from the day you add it. And BTW, you can get to gold $10 at a time.

Once Gold Rewards Status has been achieved, there is a 15% bonus for refills of $50 or less, and service is extended for 1 year (365 days).

I don't know if this has changed within the last few years, but the cost per minute charged against the pre-paid account balance is based upon the refill amount.

In other words, $10 will extend service for 365 days, but calls are now $0.33/min.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
said by SCADAGeo:

said by bobjohnson:

Once you're gold status, every topup extends your service for a year from the day you add it. And BTW, you can get to gold $10 at a time.

Once Gold Rewards Status has been achieved, there is a 15% bonus for refills of $50 or less, and service is extended for 1 year (365 days).

I don't know if this has changed within the last few years, but the cost per minute charged against the pre-paid account balance is based upon the refill amount.

In other words, $10 will extend service for 365 days, but calls are now $0.33/min.

You are correct. Its 10 cents a min for $100, up to 33 cents a min for $10.
--


teetotaler

join:2009-10-01
Brooklyn, NY
reply to SCADAGeo
I was under the impression once you hit the Gold Rewards status all calls will be $0.10/min regardless of recharge! Glad to have that clarified, is this something T-Mobile changes in the past year or so?

Also, does anyone know since a Gold Rewards SIM won't expire for a full year, let's say I use one just for emergencies and keep it off all year long, then just turn it on before the next $10 recharge after 12mos will it still work fine?

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
reply to SCADAGeo
said by SCADAGeo:

said by bobjohnson:

Once you're gold status, every topup extends your service for a year from the day you add it. And BTW, you can get to gold $10 at a time.

Once Gold Rewards Status has been achieved, there is a 15% bonus for refills of $50 or less, and service is extended for 1 year (365 days).

I don't know if this has changed within the last few years, but the cost per minute charged against the pre-paid account balance is based upon the refill amount.

In other words, $10 will extend service for 365 days, but calls are now $0.33/min.

That sounds uber confusing. If you refill 100$, then, when 50$ and 100 days are still remaining on your acount, you refill 10$, does your rate suddenly jump from 0,10 to 0,33?

Again, the more you learn about these plans, the more confused you get! Really, how difficult would it have been to systematically write down all these rules right in the fine print?

teetotaler

join:2009-10-01
Brooklyn, NY
This is how I think it will play out, your T-Mobile balance is displayed in $Amt and also Minutes.

The $100 you add will give you 1000min

$50 will give you 400min @$0.13/min + 15% bonus = 460min

$10 will give you 30 @$0.33/min + 15% bonus = 35min

So, your account balance should show 1495min. Now, I'm not sure which minutes get used first!

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to teetotaler
said by teetotaler:

I was under the impression once you hit the Gold Rewards status all calls will be $0.10/min regardless of recharge! Glad to have that clarified, is this something T-Mobile changes in the past year or so?

The only time I have recharged with less than $100 was in 2009, when I had 1800+ minutes and refilled with $50 to extend service for another 365 days.

Things may have changed since then, so I don't know if this is still true...
 

said by teetotaler:

Also, does anyone know since a Gold Rewards SIM won't expire for a full year, let's say I use one just for emergencies and keep it off all year long, then just turn it on before the next $10 recharge after 12mos will it still work fine?

Yes, service is good for 365 days (no extra day during a leap year), whether it's used or not.

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to ConstantineM
said by ConstantineM:

That sounds uber confusing. If you refill 100$, then, when 50$ and 100 days are still remaining on your acount, you refill 10$, does your rate suddenly jump from 0,10 to 0,33?

It did for me, back in 2009, on the PAYG minutes plan.

A $50 refill changed my rate to $0.13/min (additional 365 days of service).

said by ConstantineM:

Again, the more you learn about these plans, the more confused you get!

It used to be more confusing 10 years ago, when the account balance was in minutes and T-Mobile (not US) dollars.

A $100 US dollar refill would yield a credit of 1000 minutes/$500 _T-Mobile_ dollars to your account.

A voice call would subtract a minute and $0.10 _T-Mobile_ dollars from your account for each minute of the call.

In network text messages were free to send.

Receiving text messages were free.

All other services (out of network text messages, MMS, ringtones, etc) were charged in T-Mobile (not US) dollars, but that was never pointed out on their web page.

So... if someone talked 1000 minutes, they could have 0 minutes left on their account _and_ $400 T-Mobile dollars.

said by ConstantineM:

Really, how difficult would it have been to systematically write down all these rules right in the fine print?

Unless things have changed in the last few years, on the PAYG minutes plan, once Gold Reward Status has been achieved, _any refill amount_ will extend service for 365 days, _but_ the cost per minute charged against your account is based upon the last refill amount.

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to teetotaler
said by teetotaler:

This is how I think it will play out, your T-Mobile balance is displayed in $Amt and also Minutes.

The $100 you add will give you 1000min

$50 will give you 400min @$0.13/min + 15% bonus = 460min

$10 will give you 30 @$0.33/min + 15% bonus = 35min

So, your account balance should show 1495min. Now, I'm not sure which minutes get used first!

Unless it has changed within the last few years, it's easier to think about it like this:

The initial $100 will achieve Gold Reward Status, and calls are $0.10/min for the next 365 days, or until the balance reaches $0, which ever comes first.

365 days later, adding $50 would result in a $57.50 credit to the account.

The account balance is now $157.50, and calls are $0.13/min for the next 365 days, or until the balance reaches $0, which ever comes first.

ConstantineM

join:2011-09-02
San Jose, CA
But that's not how it works; with 365 days of service, you'd usually refill maybe 30 days prior to exp date, and that's a situation for which no clear answers are really available.

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
said by ConstantineM:

But that's not how it works; with 365 days of service, you'd usually refill maybe 30 days prior to exp date, and that's a situation for which no clear answers are really available.

Sorry it took so long to see your reply.

I use the PAYG minutes plan and I refill on the expiration date in order to get the full 365 days of service.

I'll have a chance to see if anything has changed with regards to T-Mobile's PAYG refill policy in May.

I'm switching to TING (took advantage of their offer in Jan to purchase 'unlocked' CDMA phone), and I plan to use my T-Mobile number as a GSM gateway on my PBX, so the refill amount will be less than $100.


Scilicet
Spaced Out
Premium
join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage

1 edit
reply to ConstantineM

T-Mobile gets rid of contracts for cellphones

This news might be of interest to you. Personally, as a T-Mobile subscriber, it's not the contract that is the cause of T-Mobile's loss of subscribers it's the poor service. Just my opinion.

PETER SVENSSON, AP
Mon Mar 25, 8:54 PM UTC

NEW YORK (AP) — T-Mobile USA, the struggling No. 4 cellphone company, is ditching plans centered on familiar two-year contracts in favor of selling phones on installment plans.

T-Mobile is the first major U.S. carrier to break from the contract model. The company changed its website over the weekend to begin selling the new plans. It plans to lay out the rationale for the change on Tuesday at an event in New York, which could also reveal when T-Mobile will start selling the iPhone.

T-Mobile has been losing subscribers from its contract-based plans for more than two years, chiefly to bigger competitors Verizon Wireless and AT&T. T-Mobile has done better with contract-less, prepaid plans, but those aren't as profitable for the company.

The new plan blurs the boundaries between the two types. Prepaid plans have lower monthly fees, but the buyer usually has to pay full or nearly full price for the phones. With T-Mobile's new plans, the initial phone-buying experience won't be much different from what it's like for contract plans, but customers could save money in the long run.

For instance, someone who wants a Samsung Galaxy S III would pay $70 upfront and then $90 per month for unlimited calling, text and data. That monthly fee includes $20 to pay off the cost of the phone over two years.

By separating the cost of the phone from the service, T-Mobile is making its plans and upgrade options easier to understand. When the phone is paid off, the $20 fee in that example disappears. On traditional contract-based plans, the buyer is deemed to have "paid off" the phone after a certain period of time and become eligible for a new, subsidized phone, but the monthly payments don't decline.

As before, T-Mobile's prices generally undercut those of the bigger phone companies. The chief downside is that its data network coverage is poorer in rural areas.

T-Mobile stopped short of adopting shared-data plans that Verizon Wireless and AT&T introduced last year. Those plans allow all of a family's devices to share a pool of monthly data usage. Instead, T-Mobile is selling data per line in three tiers. The talk and text portion of the plan comes with 500 megabytes of data usage per month. Adding $10 bumps that to 2 gigabytes per month, while adding $20 provides unlimited data.

A big part of the reason for the exodus of contract-signing customers from T-Mobile is that it, alone among the four national-level cellphone carriers, hasn't sold the iPhone. That's because its network has, until recently, not been able to offer high-speed data service to iPhones. It's now able to offer high-speed data to iPhones in some cities, and in January, the company said it would start selling the iPhone this spring. It has also been trying to persuade iPhone owners whose contracts have expired with AT&T to move their phones to T-Mobile.

T-Mobile is a unit of Germany's Deutsche Telekom AG, which has agreed to merge it with No. 5 carrier MetroPCS Communications Inc. That deal faces opposition from shareholders of MetroPCS, which provides only prepaid service.

Associated Press
--
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ~ Nikola Tesla
Expand your moderator at work

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to ConstantineM

Re: [T-Mobile] PAYG and PBTD prepaid plans for backup purposes

said by SCADAGeo :

It did for me, back in 2009, on the PAYG minutes plan.

A $50 refill changed my rate to $0.13/min (additional 365 days of service).

said by SCADAGeo :

I use the PAYG minutes plan and I refill on the expiration date in order to get the full 365 days of service.

I'll have a chance to see if anything has changed with regards to T-Mobile's PAYG refill policy in May.

I'm switching to TING (took advantage of their offer in Jan to purchase 'unlocked' CDMA phone), and I plan to use my T-Mobile number as a GSM gateway on my PBX, so the refill amount will be less than $100.

I was pleasantly surprised when I recharged with $50 on one prepaid account, the rate stayed at 10 cents per minute.

I recharged the other account with $10 to see if I retained the 10 cent per minute rate - the answer was no.

Both numbers were extended for 365 days.