Topic 'Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..' in forum 'Verizon FIOS TV' - dslreports.com

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 12:34:16 EDT

Mac973 posted :

Who tried it? Not Verizon. Verizon has a sports package with channels like Tennis in it, but not all sports like ESPN. The RSN's are not in the sports package.

Cablevision did this years ago with Fox Sports Pro Live. Fox Sports programming was available for free, but any live games from the Mets, Devils, Islanders, and Nets required a $20/month subscription. I remember this at least through 2001 and possibly beyond.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 10:03:25 EDT

blue_trooper posted : And Philadelphia had Prism which was a hybrid sports/movie channel. They had live Phillies, Flyers and Sixers games and when there wasn't a game on they ran Premium-Cable style films. IIRC it was bit more expensive than HBO.

It eventually morphed into what is now CSN Philly.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 09:29:36 EDT

chitchatjf posted : Im talking about systems in the old school days 80s-mid 90s
Boston had NESN and Sportschannel (now Comcast Sportsnet) and it was $10 for one $16 for both

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:51:26 EDT

matcarl posted : Who tried it? Not Verizon. Verizon has a sports package with channels like Tennis in it, but not all sports like ESPN. The RSN's are not in the sports package.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 17:45:39 EDT

chitchatjf posted : As for making RSNs a la carte they did that in the past.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:41:56 EDT

nfotiu posted : You're right, and this is all a relatively new phenomenon. It used to be that only premium channels had significant carriage fees, and they were offered fully a la carte. The rest of the cable channels were not charging a significant amount, and the cable companies were basically making their profits minus the infrastructure costs. Now that the sports channels are charging per subscriber rates in line with premium channels, they should be treated the same as premium channels. At least force a la carte to the providers, and let the providers determine how to charge and bundle and not bundle their channels. Then you could see some real competition in pricing and more custom bundles.

As it stands now, it is pretty close to a case where the ranchers bought up the full supply of cows and chickens, and are forcing every grocery store to bundle eggs and milk with a filet mignon.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 12:40:11 EDT

OwlSaver posted :

said by Mac973:

said by OwlSaver:

But having Verizon or Comcast decide what I need to watch and pay for does not work. I think the end is near for Cable TV as we know it.

Ultimately, as a customer you have the final say. If you feel your cable company is not giving you good value, then you can leave and find other options. Many will threaten to cancel. Few will actually do it.

You make good points. I also have the option of petitioning my elected officials and the regulatory agency to enforce change. As it is now, I could leave Verizon but Comcast realistically only offers similar options as Verizon. I actually applaud Verizon for creating the Select tier to give their customers an option.

What I would really like to see is a separation of delivery from content. Imagine if Comcast owned NBC (oh, wait, they do) and Verizon owned CBS (not yet). They could each refuse to offer the content to each others subscribers. So, I would have to have both Comcast and Verizon to get NBC and CBS.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 11:57:33 EDT

Mac973 posted :

said by OwlSaver:

But having Verizon or Comcast decide what I need to watch and pay for does not work. I think the end is near for Cable TV as we know it.

As I already mentioned, it's not the cable companies that are making these decisions. It's the sports networks that demand their network be carried on the lowest tier of service. So Verizon has 2 options: carry the sports networks and charge all customers, or don't carry the sports networks at all. Clearly they are finding that option 1 is better. They would likely lose more customers by not carrying the sports networks at all, than they would lose from people who don't want sports networks cancelling the service.

Ultimately, as a customer you have the final say. If you feel your cable company is not giving you good value, then you can leave and find other options. Many will threaten to cancel. Few will actually do it.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 10:12:20 EDT

nfotiu posted : Anyone have any theories on why that channel is not included. Seems that most exclusions are the channels that networks are trying to bundle with their sports properties. Ie. a lot of ABC/Disney stuff, Fox, etc. But I don't know that Viacom is really in the sports game at all. CBS college sports is the only one I can think of.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:03:52 EDT

OwlSaver posted : The only sport I want to watch is Soccer and am happy to pay a lot to see it. I already pay about $15/Month for Fox Soccer Plus and about $80 a year for MLS Direct Kick. But, this fee just annoys me. I do not watch College Sports, Baseball, Football, Basketball or Hockey. This needs to be fixed. Either a completely ala carte model where I pay for each channel or a bundle where every channel is included. But having Verizon or Comcast decide what I need to watch and pay for does not work. I think the end is near for Cable TV as we know it.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:57:16 EDT

OwlSaver posted :

said by anonanon :

Or sign up for new FiOS TV select package that doesnt include sports channels

But that package does not include Comedy Central - hardly a sports channel.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 08:38:51 EDT

kes601 posted : I did a pretend renewal of my bundle today (trying to figure out how to save money) and just an FYI, the regional sports fee in my area is $2.42.....

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:25:06 EDT

anon posted : Or sign up for new FiOS TV select package that doesnt include sports channels

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:52:48 EDT

nfotiu posted : I thought I had read 50,000. I see from here it is 67,000 households. »www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour···ngs.aspx

111,000 in better years
»www.halosheaven.com/2009/7/16/95···tings-in

Still, I believe my point stands, that only 1-2% of the population will be watching the new Dodger's only channel, that is charging at least 60 dollars per year in carriage fees.

A tv viewer is worth about 10 cents per hour. If 100,000 people are watching a game, that is about $30,000 per game in advertising revenue they are getting. So they probably get in the neighborhood of 5 million in advertising revenue for a Dodgers season. The other 345 million is covered by carriage fees for the new network which is being paid by all subscribers, even though 98% of them are not watching their games.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:01:47 EDT

bohratom posted :

said by Webcobbler :

Who knows, maybe I'll move to Kansas City and sign up for Google Fiber. Internet at least.

That made me laugh, which I think we all need atm, with prices going up... :D

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:41:25 EDT

anon posted : If we have to pay RSN fees now, I will call to demand local and national sports channels in HD. We still don't have MSGplus2 , CSN, etc.

If they don't listen , then I'll call my Congressman, or whomever will be willing to hear me out.

If this gets too out of hand, I will def cancel FiOS completely. Who knows, maybe I'll move to Kansas City and sign up for Google Fiber. Internet at least.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:25:07 EDT

crgauth posted :

said by nfotiu:

Take the LA Dodgers for example, 350 million per year!!! »espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/stor···4-report

You know how many people watch an average Dodger's game. 50,000!!

So, the 5 million households in the Dodger's market are going to be paying 70 dollars a year for 50,000 of them to watch their games.

Either the Dodger's or Time Warner would go bankrupt over night if RSNs were forced to a la carte. If they were to get that same revenue from only people watching their games (which is the way it should be), they'd have to charge $7,000 a year for their new network!

This model is a scheme that will not last much longer. And hopefully the Dodger's deal is the straw that makes it all come crumbling down.

Couple of comments:
I did some looking and found that the Dodgers averaged a 1.94 rating last year.
Also saw where LA market has near 13M viewers. So that means that the Dodgers averaged 252K viewers/game. That would be near $1400/viewer/year.
But when you average that out to all households, it drops dramatically. And it doesn't count the ad revenue they get as well.
Doesn't seem too hard to me to make money.
All of that being said, I see it as a never ending spiral.
Players want more money. Teams say they need more money. TV rights pay them more money. Cable fees (and ticket prices go up).
Players see the team making more money and then want more.
Repeat.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:58:27 EDT

kes601 posted : Saw a FiOS commercial yesterday and they've now added the + RSN Fee to the end of the Triple Play Pricing.....so I'm assuming that fee will vary by location?

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:39:05 EDT

thetick posted : I had Dish a few years back. If one just looks at TV prices Dish is certainly cheaper. Factor in the HUGE discount on triple pay with Verizon and never losing service because of a few rain clouds/excessive foliage. For same money the Verizon services together are much better than what one can get if individuality buying TV, internet and phone.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:10:41 EDT

Mac973 posted : In the NYC area, Dish does not carry YES Network or SNY because they did not want to pay the carriage fees. So, has anyone compared Dish's prices to Verizon's? My guess is Dish is not any cheaper even without carrying the RSN's. And if they actually are cheaper, by how much?

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:49:04 EDT

knarf829 posted : Around here, it's only through a quirk in the law that we were able to get Comcast Sportsnet Philly on Verizon at all.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:23:01 EDT

anon posted : Cable companies should start all over,1st add all the regional sports channels to every system no matter where you live, that way i can get comcast sports new england in california,or you can get the lakers time warner cable in new york, then you just pay1 price if yo want 1 rsn from out of state ,another price for your local rsn(if you want it) or 1 price if you want all the regional sports package like directv does. IN other words i want comacst sports new england in southern california and would gladly pay $5.00 a month for it,are you listening verizon?.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:12 EDT

nyrmetros posted : Here in the NYC area, we have:

MSG
MSG+
MSG2
MSG2+
YES
SNY

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:50:08 EDT

nfotiu posted : It's not ratings. It is the fact that the people who want them, really want them, and will switch providers to get them combined with favorbably legislation that keeps this model going.

Take the LA Dodgers for example, 350 million per year!!! »espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/stor···4-report

You know how many people watch an average Dodger's game. 50,000!!

So, the 5 million households in the Dodger's market are going to be paying 70 dollars a year for 50,000 of them to watch their games.

Either the Dodger's or Time Warner would go bankrupt over night if RSNs were forced to a la carte. If they were to get that same revenue from only people watching their games (which is the way it should be), they'd have to charge $7,000 a year for their new network!

This model is a scheme that will not last much longer. And hopefully the Dodger's deal is the straw that makes it all come crumbling down.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:21:28 EDT

anon posted : Is this something non sports fans are going to be able to opt out of? (and presumably lose the 1-2 local sports networks?

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:29:05 EDT

Greg2600 posted : Complain all you want. The teams are the ones reaping the money rewards, because the regional's pay them big bucks. Reason is that they get ratings! Regional sports are not available on the internet, for the most part, and people want to watch them. Every time a provider tries to play hard ball, the fans start crying. They cry to politicians, who then attack the providers. When YE$ Network was created, Cablevision refused to take them without directly charging subscribers, like the old Sports Channel. Well, Yankee fans screamed and cried like babies, and then the town officials threatened to cancel CV's franchise agreement.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:27:40 EDT

nycdave posted : I meant on FiOS....

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:09:51 EDT

nfotiu posted : Yep, I believe this is pretty common. I believe they are all taking the stance of either basic package or not at all, or they withhold other channels, or they are federally mandating Verizon to carry them.

This fee is a step in the right direction though, and is fully intended to call out the RSNs for their tactics, and to call out attention to the system as a whole.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:00:59 EDT

Mac973 posted :

said by zippoboy7:

however this fee is for the Regional Sports Networks and most if not all of those channels are negotiated separately from other channels and could certainly be put in a separate package for those who want them.

Not true in the NY area. I know for a fact that YES Network requires cable companies to carry them on basic cable. That's one of the reasons Cablevision refused to carry the network many years ago - they didn't feel they should have to pay a carriage fee for every subscriber. I believe MSG Network works the same way.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:46:24 EDT

matcarl posted : If it's a separate line item then it should be one that is removable. My wife will ask why I am paying extra for these channels like I subscribed to them.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:54:03 EDT

nfotiu posted : The cable sports model is turning into a massive scam. It is only a matter of time before greed makes that house of cards collapse in on itself. I am speaking as a sports fan. It is crazy that the public is accepting of paying in the neighborhood of $300 a year for sports channels that a majority does not watch, and these fees are going up fast.

This is an interesting article that lays out some of the laws and framework that governs which tiers these channels are carried in. In some cases they are forced by law to carry them in basic tiers, whether they want to or not.

»www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v6···INAL.pdf

All in all, I like this move by Verizon. Bringing visibility to the RSN fees might be the thing that causes enough backlash to get things changed. I'd like to see them break out all the sports channels fees into the bills.

As an aside, it would be nice if the providers provided the rebate they receive from RSNs to the customers from lockouts, since we are the ones not able to see the games that were missed.
»www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour···out.aspx

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:21:35 EDT

nascar posted : Yeah something smells fishy

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:14:08 EDT

robjlevin posted : All four MSG feeds are available to Verizon and AFAIK, all other providers. That Verizon doesn't carry all four yet is on them.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:35:25 EDT

matcarl posted :

said by nycdave:

MSG+2 isn't carried in HD yet.

What do you mean? Cablevision has it and last year you told us we would get it shortly after the other three.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:33:23 EDT

nycdave posted : MSG+2 isn't carried in HD yet.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:32:05 EDT

robertf390 posted : If they want to start charging for regional sports then they need to make sure they have the available sports channels carried. For example, here in VHO5, we are still waiting for MSG2+HD to be carried which was promised to us last year.

But as we all know too well, VZ is very good at finding things to charge for and with HD extremely slow to deliver. If they charge, they have an obligation now to deliver.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:23:00 EDT

zippoboy7 posted : That may be true of a channel like ESPN (I would dump all the Disney shit too just to get rid of ESPN), however this fee is for the Regional Sports Networks and most if not all of those channels are negotiated separately from other channels and could certainly be put in a separate package for those who want them.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:18:02 EDT

Mac973 posted : The problem with these sports channels is the networks themselves require the cable operators to include them on "basic" tiers. That way they get compensated for the highest number of customers. So Verizon can't just add these networks to a premium tier.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:13:24 EDT

matcarl posted : I agree, it's bad enough we have to pay extra for the sports channels that we don't watch, but now tacking on this fee for everyone that has them in their package? They make it seem like they are just adding it to the people that get the channels, but that is everyone except for their new package. All the sports channels need to be separated if they are going to cause the customers and the providers this much grief. The new charge is being added to the bill anyway, so why separate it like it's an extra just for me? They might as well just up the regular fee. It makes it look like I wanted these channels. Are they going to start charging an extra fee for the broadcast channels too since that's another ongoing battle? How many separate fees are there going to be?

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:09:20 EDT

zippoboy7 posted : Verizon really needs to stop this nickel and dime crap, if they are going to pull this shit then they need to just put the sports in there own package and let the people who want to pay for it do so and leave those of us who never watch these channels out of it.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:45:25 EDT

matcarl posted :

said by crgauth:

But if you are on contract, no new charges.

Until the contract ends or you change the contract

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 22:15:01 EDT

crgauth posted : But if you are on contract, no new charges.

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:56:42 EDT

Onedollar posted : $2.61 in other areas, Being phased in this month and next month..

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:26:11 EDT

bohratom posted :

said by chewypgh:

It sounds like the new RSN fee is across the FiOS footprint and not limited to the Mid-Atlantic region.

My guess is the price will vary depending on the region but I could be wrong... :D

Re: Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:24:23 EDT

chewypgh posted : Also mentioned here.
»Verizon Pulls Sports From New HD Channel Bundle

It sounds like the new RSN fee is across the FiOS footprint and not limited to the Mid-Atlantic region.

Regional Sports Network fees coming for Midatlantic region..

Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:03:05 EDT

bohratom posted : Came across a document on the web that includes a new Regional Sports Network fee for subscribers in the Midatlantic region. New customers will see the fee on their bill starting Jan 19 and current customers Mar 1 (not including customers with promotional terms). The price will be $2.42/mo and this mimics what other providers such as Directv has been implementing. The entire FIOS footprint might incur this charge but thus far I only found this pdf for the PA/NJ/NY area.

»www.lowerpaxton-pa.gov/httpdocs/···0713.pdf