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bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper

Member

Weird York Furnace Issue & Bad Service

Hello All,

Long story but i'll try to make it as sort as I can.

Furnace: York Affinity 9.S
model: PS9B12N080UP11D
Installed: March 24th 2008
Company: »www.belcomfort.com
Fault: Pressure Switch replaced 3x times & now to be the 4th in less then 5 years.

Got the new furnace installed on March 24th 2008, all went well and seemed to work good. Less then 1 year later winter of 2009 the furnace would just start blowing cool air. We would turn it off & back on and it would work again for a bit then just blow cool air again. Called out the company that installed the furnace & they replaced the Pressure Switch free & it worked good for the rest of the year until next winter.

Winter 2010 same exact issue called them out and this time they charged us for labor to replace the pressure switch & it worked good for the remaining of the winter.

Winter 2011 again the exact same issue with the pressure switch, had a tech and after some complaining i think the boss came out also. They replaced the pressure switch and Vent motor charged us $300ish & it worked good for the rest of the year.

Now this week a year later AGAIN the pressure switch is acting up and blowing out cold air on these super cold days we have been having in Toronto. Called the service company and explained to them that this is already the 4th time with the exact same issue and that they should come out and fix it for FREE because clearly they are not fixing the issue properly or the furnace is a lemon. The company said no we have to pay for the service call & labor to install the part however since we still have warranty on the furnace for another 2 months the part would be covered. After arguing with them they offered to cover the cost ONLY if we were able to provide invoices for maintenance done to the furnace over the past few years (I have a friend in the industry that does this for me almost free so I dont have any paper work for it)

So now here we are Belcomfort in my opinion are being unreasonable especially since this is the 4th time with the issue & they refuse to come out and fix an issue they should repair since it should of been fixed the first time. Now I have read online that some York furnaces have a known issue with the pressure switch however they even told my mother that they have never heard of this issue before or at least not often like in our case yet they are clearly lying & they should come up with a fix for it or if they know the part is defective use something else.

So my question is,
1. Any suggestions on what I can do with this company? Anybody else I can contact to complain? I did email York however no response from them yet.
2. Any opinion on using a Universal pressure switch? Might last longer then the crap they have been installing over and over again.
3. I also notice this tends to happen more on really cold days, I wonder if the cold weather has anything to do with this?

Thanks

Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium Member
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC

Juggernaut

Premium Member

This may be answered better in »Home Improvement

Lot's of great people there!

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper

Member

said by Juggernaut:

This may be answered better in »Home Improvement

Lot's of great people there!

haha possibly, but also looking for Canadian input also as to what can be done

WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been
join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON

WhaleOilBee to bryanviper

Member

to bryanviper
I had a similar problem if you're talking about the switch that detects if pumping air through the combustion chamber results in negative pressure. There is an intake and exhaust pipe leading outside. After two visits from Enbridge that didn't solve the problem, I discovered that on the intake pipe frost had built up to the point that it couldn't inhale. The exhaust pipe created a plume of steam on very cold days and the intake pipe sucked it in. There is a plastic rodent screen on the intake; the frost built up on that. Removing the screen cured the problem. So far no mice have made a home in my furnace.

Don't know if this is your issue, but might be worth a look.

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper

Member

said by WhaleOilBee:

I had a similar problem if you're talking about the switch that detects if pumping air through the combustion chamber results in negative pressure. There is an intake and exhaust pipe leading outside. After two visits from Enbridge that didn't solve the problem, I discovered that on the intake pipe frost had built up to the point that it couldn't inhale. The exhaust pipe created a plume of steam on very cold days and the intake pipe sucked it in. There is a plastic rodent screen on the intake; the frost built up on that. Removing the screen cured the problem. So far no mice have made a home in my furnace.

Don't know if this is your issue, but might be worth a look.

Interesting, I had read something online about the same pipe going outside and being blocked, next time i'll have to go have a look to see if there is frost built up or something similar.

Thanks

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter to bryanviper

Premium Member

to bryanviper
How do you know its the pressure switch, are you going by the diagnostic code from the system board LED?

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper

Member

said by Thane_Bitter:

How do you know its the pressure switch, are you going by the diagnostic code from the system board LED?

Yes that is correct I am going by the Diagnostic code,
- Limit Switch open
which is the same code from the last 3 times also same symptoms.

Thanks

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter

Premium Member

And if you cycle power to the furnace it begins to work again magically?

EDIT - opps ment to say mine also gets tempermental at times and fails to work, power cycling helps 99.99% of the time.

lugnut
@communications.com

lugnut to bryanviper

Anon

to bryanviper
I don't usually recommend the extended warranty on anything but on a furnace I always recommend both the extended warranty and the service contract.

We had a problem ten years ago when a newly installed furnace would die in the middle of winter three years in a row.

Finally in the third year they seemed to finally kick the bugs out and fix it for good, but even so, I STRONGLY advise paying the extra $20 per month for an ongoing service contract. It will save you a fortune in the long run.

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to bryanviper

Anon

to bryanviper
The replacement parts themselves for a furnace (when replaced) come with their own standard 1 year warranty normally. So regardless of the maintenance and regardless of the entire warranty issue, the part should be covered at now cost. Labour on the other hand...

Seems to me you may want to contact whatever consumer union works in Ontario and see what they have to say about it. I mean since this is showing a lemon history for this particular component for whatever reason, you may want to head over to small claims since the furnace professional you bought it from blew you off. And I think I would want to do this within the 2 month time frame of your furnace's general warranty.

Big ticket items like this normally come with their own consumer clauses (depending on prov), similar to "Gone's" Whirlpool washer incident.

How many times will you replace this thing? Every year?

Also, you may want to discuss this issue with a different professional, see what he says, and try to work under warranty or use this to go against the other professional.

Also, I would call York themselves. If these are York parts failing time after time, it should be free.

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper to Thane_Bitter

Member

to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:

And if you cycle power to the furnace it begins to work again magically?

EDIT - opps ment to say mine also gets tempermental at times and fails to work, power cycling helps 99.99% of the time.

Correct if I flip the cut off switch for the furnace then back on it will start to work again... for how long depends. 2 nights ago I think it died on us 2 or 3 times in the middle of the night for example.

its a very weird annoying problem.
bryanviper

bryanviper to hm

Member

to hm
Yes I may have to call York since I have not gotten an email reply from them yet (only been 2 buisness days) I dont think they have a Canadian location as I cant find any Canadian contact info on their website.

Thanks

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter to bryanviper

Premium Member

to bryanviper
Did they ever try replacing the control board (the brains, or there lack of, for the furnace)?

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to bryanviper

Anon

to bryanviper
said by bryanviper:

Yes I may have to call York since I have not gotten an email reply from them yet (only been 2 buisness days) I dont think they have a Canadian location as I cant find any Canadian contact info on their website.

Thanks

Yeah do call. Call them tomorrow even.

I would say it like it is. If ever you leave for a week for a winter vacation (and if ever you did since you bought this thing) you could come home to a very big disaster of burst pies and tens of thousands in damage. And really, that is what would happen. All because of a professional always replacing the same apparent defective part.

Time for them to address the issue.

Any blow-off and you will seriously have to consider small claims. Hate to say it.

But yeah, post in that other forum as well. People there could tell you the failure components with that code and if it could be something else. At least this will arm you for your call to them.
hm

hm to bryanviper

Anon

to bryanviper
Seems to me you have a 10-year warranty on parts.

From their site:
»www.york.com/residential ··· ies.aspx
All Air Handlers Warranties:
10-year parts
All York® products come with a written limited warranty on parts. This warranty states that a replacement part will be furnished for any part of the product that fails in normal use and service during the applicable warranty period specified in accordance with the warranty's terms. Your authorized York® Dealer can review with you the warranty periods for the products you select.


In addition to this, you have a failure rate that exceeds normal use and normal wear. Thus they should be covering labour, or someone should be generating a refund cheque for you.

Your new furnace certainly isn't giving you peace of mind, eh? Say it just like that to York when you call them. Don't be shy to escalate this up the chain.

Also, as seen at the bottom of the webpage, their site is geared for all North America (references Quebec). Guess Canada just has "approved dealers" and nothing more?

They should be sending someone out for you as a quality call or on warranty for no charge to fix what your paid professional could not.

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper to Thane_Bitter

Member

to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:

Did they ever try replacing the control board (the brains, or there lack of, for the furnace)?

Nope they never tried or suggested the motherboard.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to bryanviper

Premium Member

to bryanviper
If you want to get nasty about it, report an unsafe installation to TSSA with the installer & company name.

You can also write York and tell them that you are going to write CSA telling them about an unsafe product.

Then see what happens.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

Premium Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

If you want to get nasty about it, report an unsafe installation to TSSA with the installer & company name.

You can also write York and tell them that you are going to write CSA telling them about an unsafe product.

Then see what happens.

not a bad idea at all...while most things likely won't garner much attention, a home, with natural gas, and a potentially faulty furnace is little more than a fixed bomb...not that it is likely that would happen, but just the mention of faulty furnace and natural gas is certain to get a raised eyebrow.

at the very least, perhaps York will work with you...i have a York furnace too...i also have a buddy who does the maintenance for me (every 2 years)...i had something fail on it a couple of years ago (i think it was the exhaust blower fan or something like that)...the part was under warranty, but i had to pay for the labour (i think it was about $100).

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

If you want to get nasty about it, report an unsafe installation to TSSA with the installer & company name.

You can also write York and tell them that you are going to write CSA telling them about an unsafe product.

Then see what happens.

interesting I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks

CanadianRip
join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON

CanadianRip to bryanviper

Member

to bryanviper
This may sound silly, but that pressure switch is protection to make sure the blower doesn't burn itself out.

Check all your dampers, and filter make sure there's no obstructions in your duct work. Many people like to seal off basement vents, and with enough obstruction in the duct-work your unit may be detecting a low pressure situation.

Could be something as simple as that. Good luck either way.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by CanadianRip:

Check all your dampers, and filter make sure there's no obstructions in your duct work.

Maybe he should get one of those companies that call offering to "clean his ducks" to come in.

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper

Member

Got a email back from York asking for some info about the company and furnace, hopefully they can help us out.

only issue now is that the furnace has been working ok the past day or 2 now that the temps are rising again.

Motofreak
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
Oshawa, ON

Motofreak to bryanviper

Premium Member

to bryanviper
I have the same York POS furnace, This is known issue, I have been replacing the pressure switch yearly, always in the fall before the frost hits. There is a big thread about these junk pressure switches failing on a DIY HVAC forum, Google will find it, if not I'll look it up for you.

I just replace them, because for less than $20 bucks a pop, I just do it myself and make sure your pipes are clear and your install is correct.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

Premium Member

said by Motofreak:

I just replace them, because for less than $20 bucks a pop, I just do it myself and make sure your pipes are clear and your install is correct.

i'm not familiar with the part you are replacing, but if it is anything that requires a gas fitter to do, and you are not a licensed gas fitter, you better pray to all that is holy you don't have a leak that causes your house to burn down (or blow up)...if the insurance company finds out about it, no money for you.

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy

Premium Member

said by dirtyjeffer0:

said by Motofreak:

I just replace them, because for less than $20 bucks a pop, I just do it myself and make sure your pipes are clear and your install is correct.

i'm not familiar with the part you are replacing, but if it is anything that requires a gas fitter to do, and you are not a licensed gas fitter, you better pray to all that is holy you don't have a leak that causes your house to burn down (or blow up)...if the insurance company finds out about it, no money for you.

I'm familiar with this switch. But to the OP I would check to make sure that all of your vents are properly clear, both intake and exhaust...because back in the day when things were vented up the chimney with low and med efficency furnances, we never ran into this problem because nothing was blocked.

The valve is designed as a safety device...if it can't read the pressure, don't start because you'll seep carbon monoxide into the house and well, we all know how that goes.

With hi-effiency now everything is vented down and out the side so that it doesn't look as ugly....with all the snow perhaps that vent is now clogged or doesn't have enough ability to get airflow around it...

So, I'd check it...for mine it was all covered under warranty when they did it on my propane furnace, its literally a $2 valve that hooks on the outside and its got 1 hose in and 1 hose out to measure the pressure so no need for a gas fitter, but I let them come out and do it because hey its under warranty so let them do the heavy lifting...

Also a 5 year warranty on a furnace? Bad idea IMO....my junky little no name propane furnace has a 5 year warranty on it even...

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to dirtyjeffer0

Premium Member

to dirtyjeffer0
If you're not familiar with the part, why would you comment that he might need a gas fitter.

koira
Hey Siri Walk Me
Premium Member
join:2004-02-16

koira to bryanviper

Premium Member

to bryanviper
said by bryanviper:

Got a email back from York asking for some info about the company and furnace, hopefully they can help us out.

only issue now is that the furnace has been working ok the past day or 2 now that the temps are rising again.

is the air intake and exhaust piping to code, did the installers hack, compromise or take short cuts ? If you have some freeze up issues leading to blockage it's worth questioning.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0 to elwoodblues

Premium Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

If you're not familiar with the part, why would you comment that he might need a gas fitter.

because lots of people "DIY" things they shouldn't...an acquaintance of someone i work with installed their own gas heater in their garage as he wanted a warm garage to work in...about a month later, the whole garage and house burnt down...after an inspection, it was due to faulty installation of the gas heater and the insurance company refused coverage...they lost everything, and the house was only about 1 year old...the only thing they had left to their name was a $300k mortgage and no home to show for it.

koira
Hey Siri Walk Me
Premium Member
join:2004-02-16

koira

Premium Member

said by dirtyjeffer0:

said by elwoodblues:

If you're not familiar with the part, why would you comment that he might need a gas fitter.

because lots of people "DIY" things they shouldn't...an acquaintance of someone i work with installed their own gas heater in their garage as he wanted a warm garage to work in...about a month later, the whole garage and house burnt down...after an inspection, it was due to faulty installation of the gas heater and the insurance company refused coverage...they lost everything, and the house was only about 1 year old...the only thing they had left to their name was a $300k mortgage and no home to show for it.

ya know thats sad , but considering the OP topic here, same thing may have happened to your friend with a " professional install" because many of these so called trades aren't necessarily up to speed when it comes to professionalism . Here is my story i had a fan relay go bad on my furnace. it was intermittent and would not always de energize to low speed after the limit cooled down. a light tap would cause the contacts to release. so i ordered an identical new old stock part off ebay and it was plug and play, 5 wires on spade terminals. cost me all of 20 bucks vs several hundred if I called some repair guy to diagnose then overcharge for the component. I'm confident to use what ever skills to save a buck as long as its to code.

bryanviper
join:2002-10-12
Toronto, CAN

bryanviper to Motofreak

Member

to Motofreak
said by Motofreak:

I have the same York POS furnace, This is known issue, I have been replacing the pressure switch yearly, always in the fall before the frost hits. There is a big thread about these junk pressure switches failing on a DIY HVAC forum, Google will find it, if not I'll look it up for you.

I just replace them, because for less than $20 bucks a pop, I just do it myself and make sure your pipes are clear and your install is correct.

I have thought of that also, does not seem hard to install. However im going to wait and see what York has to say about this maybe they will step up and do something unlike the company that installed it.