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TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Misaow

Re: They pick up quick, but I might as well talk to hold music

said by Misaow:

You paid 65$ for the move fee because Rogers charges Teksavvy that to simply change the address.

So they neglect any semblance of support because they can just point fingers at rogers? Then rogers tells me to call TSI. While I fund this ridiculous dependancy cycle?

Misaow

join:2010-10-19
Ottawa, ON
Rogers says to contact TSI because you are not Rogers' customer, you are TSI's. TSI is forced to rely on Rogers to do any changes. Rogers will do almost anything in there power to give you the worst service possible because you are not a customer of theirs. Ex: not showing up for a call, telling you to go through TSI which delays everything because Rogers takes 48hrs+ to respond to any TSI requests.

As long as Rogers calls you to set-up a time they have done their work as mandated by the CRTC, them not showing up is them sticking it to you for using TSI over them.

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
said by Misaow:

As long as Rogers calls you to set-up a time they have done their work as mandated by the CRTC, them not showing up is them sticking it to you for using TSI over them.

So TSI would be the only entity to bring this up as an unfair business practice, monopolistic, anti-competitive, etc. to the CRTC, or whatever gov't alphabet soup keeps Rogers in line?

Since this has been going on since I started with TSI (~2 years), it would seem their ignorance, negligence, or compliance at the very least their lack of communication regarding their action against this is justified how?


motoracer

join:2003-09-15
united state
You seem like a customer that I'm glad I don't have to deal with. This needs to be moved to the rants section.

Misaow

join:2010-10-19
Ottawa, ON
reply to TekFail
They have brought it up many times, but the CRTC loves them Robelus handouts, and its not like TSI has any weight on this either. Rogers has cable Monopoly/Oligarchy going on, so it's not like they can go someplace else, you don't want to anger the ones feeding you what you need to provide service...

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to motoracer
said by motoracer:

You seem like a customer that I'm glad I don't have to deal with. This needs to be moved to the rants section.

I like TSI _Internet_ service, their _customer_ service is the issue here.

I'm not happy with this situation, and that should be clear, but I'm not name calling or depending on profanity so this is hardly a rant.

All I'd like is some support and follow through with what has been said over the phone. I've called in repeatedly and get the same promises and no follow through. Just excuses, lies and finger pointing at their competitor.

Forgive me for trying to get some attention publicly when private channels fail.

I know they can fix this, but they have repeatedly chosen not to.

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Misaow
said by Misaow:

Rogers has cable Monopoly/Oligarchy going on, so it's not like they can go someplace else, you don't want to anger the ones feeding you what you need to provide service...

So if the mobs big enough the right way to deal with it is to pay for protection?

They've got their technical fan base drinking the kool-aid of "Whatever bad happens it's Rogers fault" they should direct this army to help bring attention to these issues with the people who have the power to fix it. Rather than use it as an excuse to deny support and justify inaction.

Unless they'd rather have that fallback and let their competitor decide their fees.

Call me crazy, but I get the feeling this tread will mysteriously disappear in 3.. 2..


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by TekFail:

said by Misaow:

Rogers has cable Monopoly/Oligarchy going on, so it's not like they can go someplace else, you don't want to anger the ones feeding you what you need to provide service...

So if the mobs big enough the right way to deal with it is to pay for protection?

They've got their technical fan base drinking the kool-aid of "Whatever bad happens it's Rogers fault" they should direct this army to help bring attention to these issues with the people who have the power to fix it. Rather than use it as an excuse to deny support and justify inaction.

Unless they'd rather have that fallback and let their competitor decide their fees.

Call me crazy, but I get the feeling this tread will mysteriously disappear in 3.. 2..

You're being really ignorant of how your internet service is being provided.

Might I ask, why did you go with TekSavvy instead of just getting your internet service directly from Rogers?

As for technical support, it has NOTHING to do with pointing fingers or making up excuses. Rogers OWNS the coax cabling in the ground/or on the telephone poles the feed the service into everyone's homes. Their last mile coverage, their rules. (It's not fair but its not up to TekSavvy to change either).

Rogers has made mandatory activation and move fees, the money goes to them, no TekSavvy. If a wire gets cut somewhere in your neighbourhood, an upgrade goes wrong, hardware fails, Rogers owns it all and won't let TekSavvy touch or monitor any of it. All of TekSavvy can do is call, make a ticket and wait helplessly.

This type of operation isnt agreeable to you, again, why don't you just go get your service from Rogers instead?

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
said by TypeS:

You're being really ignorant of how your internet service is being provided.

Might I ask, why did you go with TekSavvy instead of just getting your internet service directly from Rogers?

As for technical support, it has NOTHING to do with pointing fingers or making up excuses. Rogers OWNS the coax cabling in the ground/or on the telephone poles the feed the service into everyone's homes. Their last mile coverage, their rules. (It's not fair but its not up to TekSavvy to change either).

Rogers has made mandatory activation and move fees, the money goes to them, no TekSavvy. If a wire gets cut somewhere in your neighbourhood, an upgrade goes wrong, hardware fails, Rogers owns it all and won't let TekSavvy touch or monitor any of it. All of TekSavvy can do is call, make a ticket and wait helplessly.

This type of operation isnt agreeable to you, again, why don't you just go get your service from Rogers instead?

If you got to a restaurant and ask for a rare steak, and it comes as a chunk of charcoal. You tell the waitress.

It's not her fault, and everyone knows that, but since you're not an employee, you cannot walk in to the back and tell the cook yourself. The waitress is a proxy for your concerns.

She tells your that your replacement steak will be back in a few, and when it comes it's exactly the same.

Now who's fault is it? Still the cook, but the waitress completely disregarded your issue. She saw the mistake again, and tried to serve it to me. She neglected to do what was in her power to fix it, by either talking to the bad cook, or offering a substitute.

I'm not going to point out the parallel here, but if TSI won't fight FOR me, then they're going to fight WITH me.

As I mentioned earlier, their Internet service is excellent, there's no denying that, in Ottawa at least I've never heard of a better alternative.

But now they keep serving me steak and pointing fingers.

Given yet again another round of failed support, I will be looking to see if either of the big isp's have fixed their traffic shaping issues. At which time I'll be moving away from a reseller.

FYI, I never complain at restaurants, out of fear for my health and wellbeing I just never return, but ISP's unlike food, doesn't have 13 alternatives within walking distance.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
quote:
She tells your that your replacement steak will be back in a few, and when it comes it's exactly the same.

Now who's fault is it? Still the cook, but the waitress completely disregarded your issue. She saw the mistake again, and tried to serve it to me. She neglected to do what was in her power to fix it, by either talking to the bad cook, or offering a substitute.
The waitress gets to see the steak before bringing it to your table. I agree that it's her fault if the delivers the wrong thing twice. You aren't pointing out the parallel here because there isn't one; this is more like you placing your order, the waitress taking it to the kitchen, the cook saying it'll be out in 5 minutes, but never actually making it. There's nothing, right or wrong, for the waitress to bring you. That's a shitty analogy, though, because even then, the waitress can see that there's no steak and bring the issue to the kitchen, then come back to you and let you know; in this situation, TSI doesn't know there was a no-show until you tell them.

Bad situation? Certainly. Can TSI do anything about it? Yes, lobby the CRTC and hope the laws governing their relationship with Rogers are changed to something more favorable for TSI and TSI's customers. They've been doing that, it hasn't been working.

Don't like it? Realize that TSI doesn't like it either and you're both on the same side, and bring as much business as you can their way, away form Rogers (the cause of the problem). Eventually, it'll get to the point where the majority of Rogers' income (or at least enough to do some *severe* damage it it were lost) is TPIA and they'll have to play along. Your other option is to go to Rogers and reward them for their abuse.

As a consumer, the ball is in your court. You can't do it alone, but neither can TSI.

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
said by BronsCon:

Your other option is to go to Rogers and reward them for their abuse.

As a consumer, the ball is in your court. You can't do it alone, but neither can TSI.

So I should stay with the small "friendly" company that makes its customers pay for it's shortcomings? Rather than the big evil corporation that will jump through hoops to keep you as a customer?

I see in principal that there should be more competition in the ISP market. But it's hardly competition when there's only one company trying.

Helping make the small guy bigger is a terrible choice when they'd be significantly worse of an abusive juggernaut if they ever got the chance. If your only choice was TSI what other fees and charges would they enforce even if they fail to reasonably deliver? What other promises would they make when you sign then re-neg or just plain forget about them?

Since I wasn't dropped at a young age, I'm going to go with the company that wants me as a customer, they may not be the feisty underdog, but at least they're trying, rather than finger pointing and making excuses.

Besides, Rogers customers aren't being sued yet. And I'm willing to bet since they're not clutching to a ill-required $65 fee to stay afloat, they've got the resources to fight it.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
If your only choice was Rogers, what do you think they'd do? They know their actions are hurting TSI and they're counting on you, and others like you, to jump ship and come back to them so they can put TSI and the other indies they lease lines to out of business so they can show you exactly what they'd do in that situation.

What you're proposing is like deciding to stop seeing the whore because she's trying to collect payment for both herself and her pimp, and asking the pimp to service you directly.

Marc, sorry for TSI's position in this analogy, but I do feel it's an apt (and graphic enough to catch the attention of people who still don't get it yet) description of the situation.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
said by BronsCon:

Marc

That's the best you could think of even after thinking about it some more!? thinking that says more about you than TSI! Haha

Seriously though, seems to me the crew handled this one fairly well. Maybe we can be more clear with dates. I kind of look at these situations and ask myself if we could have done anything differently to completely avoid this situation. It's not like we didn't make clear what the fee was going into it.. And how could anybody predict snow problems? Maybe that's a question the OP can answer from his perspective, acknowledging the realities of having to operate within what's available to us in the way of tariffs, what else could we have done differently?

Everything else seems like is mostly blowing off steam. Which is understandable. It's frustrating for sure when your net is down, I totally feel for the OP on that.

Kinda neat though that incumbents are offering such rebates just because of us these days isn't it? Never even heard of that 5 years ago. Seems to me if that wouldn't have happened, the OP would have had a very different feeling about this whole experience. You guys seem to have that one pegged pretty good though. I'm not adding much to the conversation..
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TekFail
I really don't understand how you can come up with a statement such as "[Teksavvy] is making its customers pay for its shortcomings".

You truly are ignorant of the position TekSavvy is in. Again, why are you here complaining and not just going to Rogers where they they will ding you 2-3x more for the same level of internet connection? If you believe Rogers is so much better, no one's holding you to a contract with Teksavvy.

I wonder if TekSavvy posted its net profits, how many would be surprised to see it's probably doesn't make much as a company. e They are not robbing anyone blind.

Your restaurant analogy falls completely flat on its face, there are no parallels at all.

If there is a routing or DNS issue, that's something TekSavvy can fix. But almost every other common problem that can occur with cable internet occurs on the last mile connection, which Rogers does not let TekSavvy touch at all. Even if TekSavvy wanted to hired its own fleet of cable installers and vans, Rogers wouldn't let them.

It's simple Rogers OWNS the coax in under the streets and on the telephone poles. And if you're not their customer, they don't really care other than to do what the CRTC has mandated them to do.

So end this melodramatic act and go sign up for Rogers already if you're so unsatisfied with TekSavvy.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
I can always count on TypeS to post what I want to when I'm trying too hard to be polite.

I'll continue to bite my tongue for the most part on this, but yes, if the OP truly feels Rogers is a better value, he would be best-served by simply switching to their service.

For those who value the simplicity of only dealing with one provider from end-to-end, Rogers is the better option, provided you don't care about higher prices, lower caps, and contracts.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to TypeS
This is about the 4th post i've seen pushing the customer to leave and signup elsewhere. How about encouraging the customers who are upset to have patience no matter how frustrated they are and keep Teksavvy's growth up, not push customers away. I've never understood this just because the customer doesn't meet the "happiness criteria"?

Marc answered pretty fairly, level headed, honest. Let's stop pushing customers BACK to the big guys since that works against TSI, not with. I guarantee you, Marc, Andre, Martin or 30 other TSI staff can easily defuse most of these and keep the business rather than lose it.

Not trying to argue or be rude, just being honest. Everyone needs to switch away form the big ISP's. In order to do so, even the upset/frustrated customers need to come too.


rogersmogers

@start.ca
said by Tx:

This is about the 4th post i've seen pushing the customer to leave and signup elsewhere. How about encouraging the customers who are upset to have patience no matter how frustrated they are and keep Teksavvy's growth up, not push customers away. I've never understood this just because the customer doesn't meet the "happiness criteria"?

Marc answered pretty fairly, level headed, honest. Let's stop pushing customers BACK to the big guys since that works against TSI, not with. I guarantee you, Marc, Andre, Martin or 30 other TSI staff can easily defuse most of these and keep the business rather than lose it.

Not trying to argue or be rude, just being honest. Everyone needs to switch away form the big ISP's. In order to do so, even the upset/frustrated customers need to come too.

It's easier sometimes to goto another provider. Some people are just needy and never happy.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
Well I too would prefer customers solve their grievances with TekSavvy and remain their customers.

But in this case TekFail is boasting false facts such as the activation and move fees being pocketed by TekSavvy when they are in fact from Rogers. And insinuating TekSavvy is merely playing the blame game on Rogers.

Ive read countless threads where TSI Andre and Martin have gone above and beyond to solve problems. I've never had that kind of service with Rogers. Whenever Im making account changes on my wireless with Rogers, I ask things three times to make sure Im not being scammed into more fees. Never feel like I can trust them but I trust TekSavvy when they bill me.

I hope TSI Andre or Martin can clear the situation here. But it really seems like he simply just has bone pick with TekSavvy and is grasping at straws.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

This is about the 4th post i've seen pushing the customer to leave and signup elsewhere. How about encouraging the customers who are upset to have patience no matter how frustrated they are and keep Teksavvy's growth up, not push customers away. I've never understood this just because the customer doesn't meet the "happiness criteria"?

Marc answered pretty fairly, level headed, honest. Let's stop pushing customers BACK to the big guys since that works against TSI, not with. I guarantee you, Marc, Andre, Martin or 30 other TSI staff can easily defuse most of these and keep the business rather than lose it.

Not trying to argue or be rude, just being honest. Everyone needs to switch away form the big ISP's. In order to do so, even the upset/frustrated customers need to come too.

I hear you. It's why I kept (mostly) silent. But when I see how hard the TSI guys try to keep everyone happy, I get pretty irritated whenever the latest person creates their account titled "TSISucks" or "TSIFail" and comes on here howling about the injustices they have suffered (like fees that Rogers imposes). The sense of entitlement drips from every word; no amount of communication from TSI staff is enough. It's so predictable and so unbelievably boring at this point, and I think it's why people default to a "please just leave so we'll be rid of you" response, which we should all work harder to avoid in general.

Stating your problem and asking for a solution will earn you as much assistance as this community can provide. Being rude and belligerent while making unreasonable monetary demands will not.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by The Mongoose:

said by Tx:

This is about the 4th post i've seen pushing the customer to leave and signup elsewhere. How about encouraging the customers who are upset to have patience no matter how frustrated they are and keep Teksavvy's growth up, not push customers away. I've never understood this just because the customer doesn't meet the "happiness criteria"?

Marc answered pretty fairly, level headed, honest. Let's stop pushing customers BACK to the big guys since that works against TSI, not with. I guarantee you, Marc, Andre, Martin or 30 other TSI staff can easily defuse most of these and keep the business rather than lose it.

Not trying to argue or be rude, just being honest. Everyone needs to switch away form the big ISP's. In order to do so, even the upset/frustrated customers need to come too.

I hear you. It's why I kept (mostly) silent. But when I see how hard the TSI guys try to keep everyone happy, I get pretty irritated whenever the latest person creates their account titled "TSISucks" or "TSIFail" and comes on here howling about the injustices they have suffered (like fees that Rogers imposes). The sense of entitlement drips from every word; no amount of communication from TSI staff is enough. It's so predictable and so unbelievably boring at this point, and I think it's why people default to a "please just leave so we'll be rid of you" response, which we should all work harder to avoid in general.

Stating your problem and asking for a solution will earn you as much assistance as this community can provide. Being rude and belligerent while making unreasonable monetary demands will not.

Absolutely agree, but i find it's a loose loose for us and TSI to send or suggest anyone go back to Robellus. It works against the little guy. So even the entitled ones, though it may take more patience it'll work out in our favor (our being the most of us on DSLR who hate the monopolies)


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

That's the best you could think of even after thinking about it some more!? thinking that says more about you than TSI! Haha

Hey, if TSI were available at a street corner near me, I'd pony up the $50/mo to take 'er for a ride! Don't act like that's a bad thing!


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
LOL that's too funny.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to BronsCon
said by BronsCon:

What you're proposing is like deciding to stop seeing the whore because she's trying to collect payment for both herself and her pimp, and asking the pimp to service you directly.

I know we both see the flaws in this, but this analogy gave me a good laugh.

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

Kinda neat though that incumbents are offering such rebates just because of us these days isn't it? Never even heard of that 5 years ago. Seems to me if that wouldn't have happened, the OP would have had a very different feeling about this whole experience.

You should be proud, getting noticed by Rogers isn't an easy task. And while I'm sure your loving this David v. Goliath battle you've started, but David didn't win by getting his back patted by his supporters. David won from using his less obvious advantages like speed and intelligence.

He didn't win from arrogant, self-congratulatory posts in his own forums. Especially before he won.

I hope you have a plan.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
said by TekFail:

said by TSI Marc:

Kinda neat though that incumbents are offering such rebates just because of us these days isn't it? Never even heard of that 5 years ago. Seems to me if that wouldn't have happened, the OP would have had a very different feeling about this whole experience.

You should be proud, getting noticed by Rogers isn't an easy task. And while I'm sure your loving this David v. Goliath battle you've started, but David didn't win by getting his back patted by his supporters. David won from using his less obvious advantages like speed and intelligence.

He didn't win from arrogant, self-congratulatory posts in his own forums. Especially before he won.

I hope you have a plan.

Take a step back man. We've been trying to help you. There's nothing arrogant or self-congratulatory in that.

If you care to help.. The thing that's the most helpful is to give constructive criticism.. I did ask you if you had any ideas. That's not blaming anybody...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

TekFail

join:2013-01-25
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
said by TSI Marc:

Take a step back man. We've been trying to help you. There's nothing arrogant or self-congratulatory in that.

If you care to help.. The thing that's the most helpful is to give constructive criticism.. I did ask you if you had any ideas. That's not blaming anybody...

Alright, I've more or less calmed down on this issue since Friday, and as much as I've been threatening to leave, I'm not going to. You DO have an excellent internet service. Better than anyone else, and you want to fight for a better internet for everyone. I can't name another ISP that does the same.

Back in my college days I used to make some extra money for school and beer through ebay. More often that I'd like I had issues with customers, most people will accept one mistake, but every once in a while the planets would align and the same customer would get multiple shipping/billing/item issues on the same order. Some my fault, others not.

In these cases, I'd eventually look at it and say, fuck it, this guy could be lying, but if he's not, I'd be pissed that I had to pay for such a clusterfuck of problems.

So I'd write out a letter explaining the issues, tell them throw it in a box and mail it back, I'd pay to ship it back. If the item value was less than shipping it back, it was just a fuck it, here's your money back. I would let them know that I don't control customs, canadapost, usps, or the quality of manufacturing of the product. BUT they were _my_ customer, and it was _my_ feedback at stake.

It may have left me in the red $-15 and the customer didn't magically get all their problems solved, but I wanted to prove to the customer that I was on their side, and that I took ownership of their order, and set him back to 0, it may have been irritating and annoying, but in the end, it didn't cost them anything.

The majority of these left no feed back, a few actually left positive feedback, but not once, did I receive a negative feedback.

I have no idea if I ever made back that lost money by not having someone's warning to other customers in my rep.

No one likes to be ignored, and It's not like I was demanding free internet for life, or anything unreasonable. I just didn't want to pay a fee for a service that was tremendous hassle and frustration over the course of nearly 3 weeks.

You do a lot of things right, and I agree with most of how you run your business. To be honest, you're the only ISP I've dealt with that seems to understand that HTML injection is a perverse way of notifying me of anything. DNS Spoofing of failed lookups causes lots of problems for running scrapers and other scripts. Fought against UBB and of course has the CEO (which I'm hoping isn't just an intern's busywork) responds directly to customers.

You have a lot of good things for the technically savvy crowd (Should be obvious from your name) but, having worked as a tech support phone monkey for nearly 5 years, I realize that most people aren't. If you want to stay the small guy that nerds use for internet, keep doing what you're doing, I'd rather not pay for kids to wait on the phone to tell me to reboot my modem anyways.

But I have no argument to convince my mother to switch from the big guys to you. Traffic shaping doesn't matter to her, she just wants to play scrabble and forward 10 year old jokes to her neighbours, as long as it's fast enough, she doesn't care about speed. She does care that when there's a problem, she has someone to call to get it fixed, and fixed in such a way that she doesn't have to understand the trials and tribulations of being an internet reseller. Just fix it.

Your internet service is usually good, which is why I pay you for it. When it's not I don't call in to hear excuses, I call in for a solution. If it's not solved, why should I keep paying you? When I'm not happy, make me happy. You don't advertise (that I've ever seen) you don't cold call (or so I hope) so happy customers are the ones that get you new customers. So take that advertising budget that doesn't get used and put it somewhere that gets you new customers, maybe my mother doesn't care about the technical issues, but if I tell her she should be using someone else for internet, she'll listen, even without an argument.

I hope this helps you to see where I'm coming from.