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koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to themisa

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

said by themisa:

It looks like we might get the higher upload speeds thought.

No.. from the way I read it, it only applies to aggregated, which tsi is not yet connected to. Speedmatching is only applied to aggregated.

EHTL

join:2002-10-31
Canada

1 recommendation

reply to koreyb

TSI must announce their response and their future plan ASAP before everybody moves to Start. I will be looking into switching to Start too because I need more reasonable upload speed for my VoIP.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

1 recommendation

reply to mlerner

Actually, its even better:

quote:
In the interest of clarity, the Commission considers that incumbent service providers should specify in their approved tariff pages for WHSA services, the upstream speeds made available to independent service providers, including any optional speeds that may apply.
This means if you're in an area that supports 45/7 on agg, Rogers has to provide it instead of the 45/3 they're pulling.

Thats HUGE. And great!
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to EHTL

said by EHTL:

I will be looking into switching to Start too because I need more reasonable upload speed for my VoIP.

VoIP needs relatively little upstream, and every TPIA speed available (that I know of) has enough upstream for a single VoIP session.

If you're running multiple concurrent VoIP sessions, that may be different.

bbhog

join:2010-07-05
North York, ON
reply to mlerner

I'm so depressed! I don't want to have to switch...
TSI please let us know the plan going forward.


koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to bt

said by bt:

said by EHTL:

I will be looking into switching to Start too because I need more reasonable upload speed for my VoIP.

VoIP needs relatively little upstream, and every TPIA speed available (that I know of) has enough upstream for a single VoIP session.

If you're running multiple concurrent VoIP sessions, that may be different.

VoIP and normal use on the same connection can be problematic. I have to QoS the crap out of my connection to avoid issues.

nitric

join:2012-01-29

said by koreyb:

said by bt:

said by EHTL:

I will be looking into switching to Start too because I need more reasonable upload speed for my VoIP.

VoIP needs relatively little upstream, and every TPIA speed available (that I know of) has enough upstream for a single VoIP session.

If you're running multiple concurrent VoIP sessions, that may be different.

VoIP and normal use on the same connection can be problematic. I have to QoS the crap out of my connection to avoid issues.

Add in a video call and all hell breaks loose.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to mlerner

This is the meat of it and why I had a feeling it would be denied.

14. Based on the above, the Commission considers that independent service providers have been given ample notice that TPIA services presently available at disaggregated POIs would only continue to be available until 15 November 2013. Further, the Commission considers that it would not be appropriate to require RCP and other cable carriers to offer new services over interconnection arrangements that are expressly being phased out. The Commission therefore denies CNOC's request that the new speeds approved in Telecom Decision 2012-706 be made available at disaggregated POIs.



Anaron

join:2005-01-28
North York, ON

No! No! No! No!



--
Formerly known as section32

TheHeeyyy

join:2011-12-14
North York, ON
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

This is the meat of it and why I had a feeling it would be denied.

14. Based on the above, the Commission considers that independent service providers have been given ample notice that TPIA services presently available at disaggregated POIs would only continue to be available until 15 November 2013. Further, the Commission considers that it would not be appropriate to require RCP and other cable carriers to offer new services over interconnection arrangements that are expressly being phased out. The Commission therefore denies CNOC's request that the new speeds approved in Telecom Decision 2012-706 be made available at disaggregated POIs.

So what would happen to Teksavvy if they didn't switch-over to aggregate before November 15, 2013? Can Rogers cut them off, or impose new tarrifs at a higher price?

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by TheHeeyyy:

said by mlerner:

This is the meat of it and why I had a feeling it would be denied.

14. Based on the above, the Commission considers that independent service providers have been given ample notice that TPIA services presently available at disaggregated POIs would only continue to be available until 15 November 2013. Further, the Commission considers that it would not be appropriate to require RCP and other cable carriers to offer new services over interconnection arrangements that are expressly being phased out. The Commission therefore denies CNOC's request that the new speeds approved in Telecom Decision 2012-706 be made available at disaggregated POIs.

So what would happen to Teksavvy if they didn't switch-over to aggregate before November 15, 2013? Can Rogers cut them off, or impose new tarrifs at a higher price?

Cut off.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

daeron

join:2012-05-11
Ottawa

that wouldn't be smart of them though, Tek has alot of red customers. cash flow for rogers.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by daeron:

that wouldn't be smart of them though, Tek has alot of red customers. cash flow for rogers.

Rogers doesn't want the competition. They know if Tek's non-agg was killed without agg being up & running, people would either run back to them, or hit up Start.

Which is even more money for them.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
reply to resa1983

i can't imagine it would actually take much time for TSI to place an order with Rogers to move to aggregated POI considering Rogers actually wants them to move to it. my feeling is TSI wants to stay on non-aggregated until the very last minute before it gets turned off.

anyways, it was likely already setup for just before the cut off date (which isn't new).


themisa

join:2012-05-22
reply to mlerner

Even IF TSI has no choice but to make it happen by Novemeber,
who is going to wait until then?

I'd be content with 25/2 over 28/1 for a while,
but the measly 1Mbps upload for $50 isn't very TekSavvy.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to jmck

said by jmck:

i can't imagine it would actually take much time for TSI to place an order with Rogers to move to aggregated POI considering Rogers actually wants them to move to it. my feeling is TSI wants to stay on non-aggregated until the very last minute before it gets turned off.

anyways, it was likely already setup for just before the cut off date (which isn't new).

The plan is right now to light up the agg POI Feb/Mar, and then start moving POIs over 1 by 1. I do believe that's Rogers' plan, as they have enough problems adding a single gig-e link, that switching over almost 90gbps of links at once would probably kill Teksavvy for days.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


TakeOffEh

@teksavvy.com
reply to resa1983

I had a feeling the CRTC would say "just move to Aggregated, problem solved, why are you bothering us with this". Sigh.

Though, perhaps, in a way this is good thing for TekSavvy. Now, before everyone says "what, are you crazy?" hear me out.

TSI clearly hasn't been able to handle the growth they've been experiencing. The forum here is littered with complaints about how customer service has been on the decline. They just haven't been able to hire enough qualified staff to handle support.

Maybe if TSI starts to downsize, the quality of support will improve again. Plus, TSI will have to fight now, to keep every customer they can. Since, obviously, there will soon be a mass exodus to Start.

So it might actually be a good time to stay with TSI, and wait until they move to Aggregated. It will suck being stuck at the slower speeds, of course. But hopefully the move to Agg. will happen sooner rather than later.

To be honest, I really dislike the notion of having an Agg. POI for all of TPIA. I'm not sure if it will affect pings, but one thing is for certain. If Rogers wants to bring back throttling, having one POI for TPIA wil make it very easy for them to apply it to TPIA as well. Whereas with Disaggregated, it would have been a real pain in the ass to implement throttling on each POI individually.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by TakeOffEh :

I had a feeling the CRTC would say "just move to Aggregated, problem solved, why are you bothering us with this". Sigh.

Though, perhaps, in a way this is good thing for TekSavvy. Now, before everyone says "what, are you crazy?" hear me out.

TSI clearly hasn't been able to handle the growth they've been experiencing. The forum here is littered with complaints about how customer service has been on the decline. They just haven't been able to hire enough qualified staff to handle support.

Maybe if TSI starts to downsize, the quality of support will improve again. Plus, TSI will have to fight now, to keep every customer they can. Since, obviously, there will soon be a mass exodus to Start.

So it might actually be a good time to stay with TSI, and wait until they move to Aggregated. It will suck being stuck at the slower speeds, of course. But hopefully the move to Agg. will happen sooner rather than later.

To be honest, I really dislike the notion of having an Agg. POI for all of TPIA. I'm not sure if it will affect pings, but one thing is for certain. If Rogers wants to bring back throttling, having one POI for TPIA wil make it very easy for them to apply it to TPIA as well. Whereas with Disaggregated, it would have been a real pain in the ass to implement throttling on each POI individually.

Yes, it would make throttling easier.

However.. With the throttling of Agg, capacity requirements would drop, and they'd be making less money.

They'd also have to first start throttling their own customers again before being able to throttle Agg - ITMP rules state you can't put in place an ITMP for wholesale that is more restrictive than your own. We all know how well Rogers follows those ITMP rules (they don't), but, if CNOC files an ITMP complaint against Rogers after my & my organizations prior complaints (which helped kill Rogers throttling altogether), you can bet CRTC would act quickly this time around.

If Rogers were to start throttling again, my organization - the Canadian Gamers Organization - will be on their asses again, pissing them off as usual.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to mlerner

Crap. Crap. Crap. Full stop.

It came out Thursday as I expected and no big surprise on the denial. The arguments were solid from CNOC, JF, and Resa but the cloud of AGG-POI hangs over us like a humid summer day's thunderstorm just ready to burst. The changeover to AGG-POI is now even more PARAMOUNT and some transparency from TSI would be very welcome in the coming week.

I'm getting sick and tired of 1Mbps up, however, with the referral discounts I get from TSI I can't get even close to the same service from Start for the price. So the option for switching is clearly not for me.

Now we wait for new CBB tariffs and see if the storm is going to continue raging on...



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to mlerner

Hey gang,

Well, it looks like the decision is out. It's been denied. I'm still waiting to hear on the exact details on the upload part but it appears to me that its also denied at first glance.

I'll be giving more details as we figure out our plans but this certainly affects our planning as well though.

So, to recap for those who may not understand what's going on. The CRTC tariffs that regulate these services was split up in to two branches about a year ago.

The tariffs that have existed for many years are what we are calling TPIA (Third party internet access). It will continue to exist until the better part of this year at which point we will have to migrate to the new branch and the old branch will no longer exist.

The second branch, the new branch is called Aggregated-TPIA.

Today's decision describes what speeds should be available in the TPIA branch. The decision effectively tells Rogers to make more clear what exactly those speeds are. Effectively, those speeds are what we currently have available. We also have access to a higher speed that we haven't been selling.

The decision that describes what happens in the Aggregated-TPIA branch was released just before the new year. That decision states that Rogers must provide exactly the same to us as to their own users.

Today TekSavvy is on the old branch or TPIA. However, as required, we are in the process of migrating over to the Aggregated-TPIA.

I will get a list to describe what each branch offers. And more importantly, what speeds you will automatically end up with when we migrate over to Aggregated-TPIA in the months ahead.

Additionally, it's important to highlight the key differences between the old and new branches. The biggest difference is that in the old branch, Rogers entire footprint was divided into roughly 50 different points of interconnect or POI as we call them. Under the new branch, we have a single place where we have access to their entire footprint. This is why its called Aggregated-TPIA.

As it stands today, we are connected to 20 of those POIs via 74 gig links. We have two more to be delivered in the next week. ten more in another batch and 19 more on order past that. This is simply to keep pace with the demands we currently forecast. So in total that's 105 gig links.

That means that there are 30~ish POIs that we currently do not service.

We have been in the process of setting up Aggregated-TPIA for those other areas. Those areas, would have full speed matching as a result once we go live. Current estimates are sometime in March.

For the existing 20 POIs, which cover the most populated areas. As you can imagine, it is quite a migration to go from one to the other. We have been and continue to work with Rogers to plan this out. It requires both us and Rogers to build facilities both to sustain the existing setup as we continue to grow and as well to build out the new facilities as we transition over.

Each branch use a different network on Rogers end. This is due to the nature of the way each branch is designed.. one is aggregated, the other is not and have many connection points.

It appears to me that this is largely the reason why the speed matching decision was denied. And frankly, had speed matching been approved, it would likely have caused us congestion if they would simply have upgraded it willy nilly... so to some degree this decision is in fact better in the way of providing a stable service for what you all currently have. It also makes it easier for us to plan for capacity due to the existing network being free of sudden speed changes that would affect total capacity needed but also in the new Aggregated-TPIA, there are simply much less links to manage. We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

Now that we know what the decision is. We can better finish planning since we didn't know if we needed to add more capacity to the existing network or if we needed to plan to add that capacity to the new network once we migrate over to it...

To date Rogers has worked with us to provide a smooth transition and I expect the same to continue. Once I have more details as to timing of transition of each POI from TPIA to Aggregated-TPIA I will post that. Also, once I know exactly what speeds will be migrated to what speeds I will also post that. This second one, I believe is already fairly established but I will confirm.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to creed3020

c2roth:
We still won 1 point going forward.

CRTC just expanded the speedmatching policy - Incumbents can't do 'beta' speeds available in specific areas, and not provide them to wholesale - FTTH not included.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to mlerner

Re: Telecom Decision CRTC 2013-36

Well...

I'm still in shock.
---
CRTC:*DENIED*
/me shakes fist @ CRTC/Robbers
---
The next NINE months are going to be interesting. *sigh*

Some insight to TekSavvy's transition plan for current subscibers would be interesting to entertain during this gestation period.

--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca



XNemesis

join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON
reply to mlerner

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

Hopefully TSI's customer loss isn't detrimentally huge from now till when AGG lights up with people switching to START. After waiting as long as people have for better speeds, especially upload, another 3-9 months while START is currently offering the new packages, might seem like an eternity.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Well I don't feel so bad now that I cancelled cable last month. Part of my decision was cutting monthly costs as I also have TSI DSL, and have had Cable & DSL in tandem for 2.5 years.

But another factor was this speedmatching bullshit, which I had a hunch that it would be denied, and I was right.
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!


themisa

join:2012-05-22
reply to mlerner

Is there any way TSI can offer higher upload speeds on non-aggregated POIs ?


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by themisa:

Is there any way TSI can offer higher upload speeds on non-aggregated POIs ?

No.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

camelot

join:2008-04-12
Whitby, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to mlerner

It may suck, but I can understand the CRTC decision.

If the grand plan is to move everyone to one architecture, then there's no sense in enforcing speeds on a legacy platform.

If anything, it will probably light a fire under TSI to move to aggregated even sooner.

What I'm more interested in than speed-matching, is the capacity rates. THAT will be where the CRTC shows it's true new colours.

This decision is not a total loss, because sooner or later the speeds are coming regardless.



Anaron

join:2005-01-28
North York, ON
reply to mlerner

As much as I was hoping for faster upload speeds, I won't switch to Start. Sure, faster upload speeds would be nice but 150 GB a month (for Start's 25/2 plan) isn't enough. I would also have to buy a DOCSIS 3.0 modem which is something I'd rather do later.

At this point, I just hope the Greensboro POI is at the top of the list. And that the process goes as smoothly as possible for TekSavvy.
--
Formerly known as section32



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to TSI Marc

OK Marc & WHOA, yeah that post certainly helped me see the LIGHT with some clairity after being rocked by the earlier news on the decision.

said by TSI Marc :

We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

Also, now that I can see reason for the denial of the speed matching request in light of your post description, it doesn't feel quite so doomy & gloomy

I think I'll hang on and wait for your follow up post(s) regarding the transitioning plans with a reduced anxiety level before venturing the bazillion questions teeming at the back of this skull of mine.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


underubb

@teksavvy.com
reply to Anaron

lol; If we all move to start the switch to aggregated will be a lot faster/easier for TSI.