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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to mlerner

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

Hey gang,

Well, it looks like the decision is out. It's been denied. I'm still waiting to hear on the exact details on the upload part but it appears to me that its also denied at first glance.

I'll be giving more details as we figure out our plans but this certainly affects our planning as well though.

So, to recap for those who may not understand what's going on. The CRTC tariffs that regulate these services was split up in to two branches about a year ago.

The tariffs that have existed for many years are what we are calling TPIA (Third party internet access). It will continue to exist until the better part of this year at which point we will have to migrate to the new branch and the old branch will no longer exist.

The second branch, the new branch is called Aggregated-TPIA.

Today's decision describes what speeds should be available in the TPIA branch. The decision effectively tells Rogers to make more clear what exactly those speeds are. Effectively, those speeds are what we currently have available. We also have access to a higher speed that we haven't been selling.

The decision that describes what happens in the Aggregated-TPIA branch was released just before the new year. That decision states that Rogers must provide exactly the same to us as to their own users.

Today TekSavvy is on the old branch or TPIA. However, as required, we are in the process of migrating over to the Aggregated-TPIA.

I will get a list to describe what each branch offers. And more importantly, what speeds you will automatically end up with when we migrate over to Aggregated-TPIA in the months ahead.

Additionally, it's important to highlight the key differences between the old and new branches. The biggest difference is that in the old branch, Rogers entire footprint was divided into roughly 50 different points of interconnect or POI as we call them. Under the new branch, we have a single place where we have access to their entire footprint. This is why its called Aggregated-TPIA.

As it stands today, we are connected to 20 of those POIs via 74 gig links. We have two more to be delivered in the next week. ten more in another batch and 19 more on order past that. This is simply to keep pace with the demands we currently forecast. So in total that's 105 gig links.

That means that there are 30~ish POIs that we currently do not service.

We have been in the process of setting up Aggregated-TPIA for those other areas. Those areas, would have full speed matching as a result once we go live. Current estimates are sometime in March.

For the existing 20 POIs, which cover the most populated areas. As you can imagine, it is quite a migration to go from one to the other. We have been and continue to work with Rogers to plan this out. It requires both us and Rogers to build facilities both to sustain the existing setup as we continue to grow and as well to build out the new facilities as we transition over.

Each branch use a different network on Rogers end. This is due to the nature of the way each branch is designed.. one is aggregated, the other is not and have many connection points.

It appears to me that this is largely the reason why the speed matching decision was denied. And frankly, had speed matching been approved, it would likely have caused us congestion if they would simply have upgraded it willy nilly... so to some degree this decision is in fact better in the way of providing a stable service for what you all currently have. It also makes it easier for us to plan for capacity due to the existing network being free of sudden speed changes that would affect total capacity needed but also in the new Aggregated-TPIA, there are simply much less links to manage. We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

Now that we know what the decision is. We can better finish planning since we didn't know if we needed to add more capacity to the existing network or if we needed to plan to add that capacity to the new network once we migrate over to it...

To date Rogers has worked with us to provide a smooth transition and I expect the same to continue. Once I have more details as to timing of transition of each POI from TPIA to Aggregated-TPIA I will post that. Also, once I know exactly what speeds will be migrated to what speeds I will also post that. This second one, I believe is already fairly established but I will confirm.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to creed3020
c2roth:
We still won 1 point going forward.

CRTC just expanded the speedmatching policy - Incumbents can't do 'beta' speeds available in specific areas, and not provide them to wholesale - FTTH not included.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to mlerner

Re: Telecom Decision CRTC 2013-36

Well...

I'm still in shock.
---
CRTC:*DENIED*
/me shakes fist @ CRTC/Robbers
---
The next NINE months are going to be interesting. *sigh*

Some insight to TekSavvy's transition plan for current subscibers would be interesting to entertain during this gestation period.

--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


XNemesis

join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON
reply to mlerner

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

Hopefully TSI's customer loss isn't detrimentally huge from now till when AGG lights up with people switching to START. After waiting as long as people have for better speeds, especially upload, another 3-9 months while START is currently offering the new packages, might seem like an eternity.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
Well I don't feel so bad now that I cancelled cable last month. Part of my decision was cutting monthly costs as I also have TSI DSL, and have had Cable & DSL in tandem for 2.5 years.

But another factor was this speedmatching bullshit, which I had a hunch that it would be denied, and I was right.
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

themisa

join:2012-05-22
reply to mlerner
Is there any way TSI can offer higher upload speeds on non-aggregated POIs ?

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
said by themisa:

Is there any way TSI can offer higher upload speeds on non-aggregated POIs ?

No.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

camelot

join:2008-04-12
Whitby, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to mlerner
It may suck, but I can understand the CRTC decision.

If the grand plan is to move everyone to one architecture, then there's no sense in enforcing speeds on a legacy platform.

If anything, it will probably light a fire under TSI to move to aggregated even sooner.

What I'm more interested in than speed-matching, is the capacity rates. THAT will be where the CRTC shows it's true new colours.

This decision is not a total loss, because sooner or later the speeds are coming regardless.


Anaron

join:2005-01-28
North York, ON
reply to mlerner
As much as I was hoping for faster upload speeds, I won't switch to Start. Sure, faster upload speeds would be nice but 150 GB a month (for Start's 25/2 plan) isn't enough. I would also have to buy a DOCSIS 3.0 modem which is something I'd rather do later.

At this point, I just hope the Greensboro POI is at the top of the list. And that the process goes as smoothly as possible for TekSavvy.
--
Formerly known as section32


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to TSI Marc
OK Marc & WHOA, yeah that post certainly helped me see the LIGHT with some clairity after being rocked by the earlier news on the decision.

said by TSI Marc :

We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

Also, now that I can see reason for the denial of the speed matching request in light of your post description, it doesn't feel quite so doomy & gloomy

I think I'll hang on and wait for your follow up post(s) regarding the transitioning plans with a reduced anxiety level before venturing the bazillion questions teeming at the back of this skull of mine.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


underubb

@teksavvy.com
reply to Anaron
lol; If we all move to start the switch to aggregated will be a lot faster/easier for TSI.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

1 recommendation

reply to TwiztedZero
said by TwiztedZero:

OK Marc & WHOA, yeah that post certainly helped me see the LIGHT with some clairity after being rocked by the earlier news on the decision.

said by TSI Marc :

We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

Also, now that I can see reason for the denial of the speed matching request in light of your post description, it doesn't feel quite so doomy & gloomy

I think I'll hang on and wait for your follow up post(s) regarding the transitioning plans with a reduced anxiety level before venturing the bazillion questions teeming at the back of this skull of mine.

Yeah, I think this was actually a measured response by the CRTC and frankly by Rogers too.

Now, dont get me wrong, I'd have preferred the higher upload speeds and I'd have upgraded the existing network and done anything to make it work either way but it did make for extra investment into something that's getting dropped... it still does make for more investment but less now to some degree.

As far as what it means for us.. frankly, I dont think it will do all that much in the way of new signups and people migrating since it's just a few months away in most cases and everybody knows they're going to get the upgrade anyway...

at a glance this is what everybody can expect (I'm still confirming this)

once we move to Aggregated-TPIA existing users who are on these speeds will automatically get converted as below:

18 goes to 25
28 goes to 35
32 goes to 45
75 goes to 150
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Webslingerac

join:2004-05-01
canada
This CRTC decision in addition to suffering on the McNicoll POI during Prime Time is a tough pill to swallow.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to resa1983
said by resa1983:

I do believe that's Rogers' plan, as they have enough problems adding a single gig-e link, that switching over almost 90gbps of links at once would probably kill Teksavvy for days.

In principle, it should be much easier for Rogers to handle that 90Gbps over their own WAN network which (hopefully) is built on 10Gbps (or faster) links than manage 100s of 1GbE non-aggregated links to the various TPIA ISPs since every 10Gbps added to Rogers' own network benefits everyone on A-TPIA across multiple legacy-POIs.

I can imagine the administrative changes and equipment shuffling requiring some extra planning... depending on how Rogers arranged their network before, this may be a golden opportunity to do massive optimizations/simplifications.

darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON
reply to TSI Marc
Marc,

Will you still offer the unlimited Ontario cable packages once we're on aggregated POIs? If so will the price move up because of aggregated POI?

I'm currently on the 28/1 unlimited pack.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

1 recommendation

said by darrylr:

Marc,

Will you still offer the unlimited Ontario cable packages once we're on aggregated POIs? If so will the price move up because of aggregated POI?

I'm currently on the 28/1 unlimited pack.

for sure... hell yeah. what good is an awesome internet connection if you cant use it!
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

1 recommendation

reply to darrylr
said by darrylr:

Marc,

Will you still offer the unlimited Ontario cable packages once we're on aggregated POIs? If so will the price move up because of aggregated POI?

I'm currently on the 28/1 unlimited pack.

The bigger issue for pricing is the pending CRTC - Capacity Based Billing decision. That's what will determine any price changes if any.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

londoner1

join:2007-04-26
London, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc
"Once I have more details as to timing of transition of each POI from TPIA to Aggregated-TPIA I will post that."

TSI must have some preliminarily planning already done on this. I for one would like to know some approximation as to when York (London and area) will be Aggregated. Further once the Aggregated is up would new customers be placed on that prior to existing customers being moved onto it?


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
said by londoner1:

"Once I have more details as to timing of transition of each POI from TPIA to Aggregated-TPIA I will post that."

TSI must have some preliminarily planning already done on this. I for one would like to know some approximation as to when York (London and area) will be Aggregated. Further once the Aggregated is up would new customers be placed on that prior to existing customers being moved onto it?

The thing is that it depends on the existing network... if Rogers doesn't have much capacity left on the TPIA network.. we will likely look to migrate that specific POI sooner rather than later since otherwise they would need to build more facilities to accomodate it.. each POI has it's own set of specifics.

This is what we're sorting out still.

As for new users. It's actually based on the POI your connecting to... so if you're on an Aggregated POI i.e. one of the other 30~ish POIs that we currently do not cover.. than yes you will get the higher speeds right away.

For existing POIs.. as they get migrated, any existing or new customers will go on that POI no matter what it currently is.. i.e. new subs get the same treatment regardless.. it's based on the POI, not the sub... any one POI is either Aggregated or it is not.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


franklyong
Cisco Geek

join:2004-12-05
Canada
kudos:1
reply to mlerner
I'm okay with the wait for now. Just hope the prices don't go up.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
said by franklyong:

I'm okay with the wait for now. Just hope the prices don't go up.

For CBB, Rogers rates are among the lower (though still too high!) of those approved by the CRTC last year. Unless they were to go up, I dont see there being much of a price change. This is obviously very speculative since we just dont know what the decision will be.

Where CBB is likely to have the most impact is on Bell and Cogeco and Videotron territories.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

Apparently that isn't as obvious to Rogers as it is to everyone else..
»Re: Upcoming maintenance
--
electronicsguru.ca

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

The bigger issue for pricing is the pending CRTC - Capacity Based Billing decision. That's what will determine any price changes if any.

My most optimistic bet is 6k$/Gbps, my pessimistic bet is 15k$.

Some of the way the fees are structured needs to be revisited: if an incumbent refuses to offer 10GbE unless there is at least a 3Gbps commit, it means the incumbent puts too much of the port fee in the per-Gbps component so some of that cost appears to be obviously misplaced - the port fee should be higher but per-Gbps fees revised downward by an equivalent amount so incumbents have no reason to object to ports with 0Gbps on them.

The way peak traffic gets calculated should be based on aggregate rather than individual links. The rigid per-link commitment puts crippling arbitrary limits on service - the incumbent is already aggregating your 70+Gbps of traffic to your aggregated-POI, it makes no difference (risk-wise and cost-wise) whether you receive it over 7x10G or 10x10G... other than the incumbent receiving extra rent for the extra 10G ports.

Those issues did not get as much attention as they deserved in 703/704.

londoner1

join:2007-04-26
London, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc
if you're on an Aggregated POI i.e. one of the other 30~ish POIs that we currently do not cover.. than yes you will get the higher speeds right away.

So at some point Aggregated will go live and anyone that currently can get Rogers coverage (but not TSI) ie Brantford would be able to signup for the new packages (25/2, 35/3 etc). Then over time all the existing POI's will be migrated (before the end of 2013)....But the first step is the Aggregated POI.

I will say that once aggregated comes online existing customers on Dis-Aggregated POI's are going to be pretty unhappy if all of a sudden new customers are getting higher speeds (UL/DL) at the same price that the rest of us are paying for our existing plans....

Any insight as to when that (aggregated coming online) may happen ...I think i saw a post that it was Feb/March?


Bren27

@centtric.com
reply to TSI Marc
i am wondering, with the switch to Agg coming in March, will Teksavvy be able to offer the higher rogers packages, Example 75 or 150?


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
said by Bren27 :

i am wondering, with the switch to Agg coming in March, will Teksavvy be able to offer the higher rogers packages, Example 75 or 150?

TSI Marc See Profile allready mentioned that in his post above. 75 or 150
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

EHTL

join:2002-10-31
Canada
reply to bt
said by bt:

VoIP needs relatively little upstream, and every TPIA speed available (that I know of) has enough upstream for a single VoIP session.

If you're running multiple concurrent VoIP sessions, that may be different.

Not matter how I setup the QoS, I couldn't get decent VoIP performance when I am bittorrenting with the currently 512k up. I hope 2M up will solve my problem. If TSI is not announcing their plan, soon, I will switch to Start.


Perma

join:2011-12-20
reply to mlerner
I need an answer, when will London see higher uploads?

Talesavo

join:2011-01-07
London, ON
reply to mlerner
And people told me I should wait until after the CNOC announcement to cancel my Teksavvy.

nitric

join:2012-01-29
said by Talesavo:

And people told me I should wait until after the CNOC announcement to cancel my Teksavvy.

I cancelled last Thursday and when I heard the announcement was coming this week I thought it was just my luck. No regrets now. :P

I am happy with my Teksavvy connection but I need the extra upstream.