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creed3020
Premium Member
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON

1 edit

1 recommendation

creed3020 to resa1983

Premium Member

to resa1983

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

said by resa1983:

c2roth:
We still won 1 point going forward.

CRTC just expanded the speedmatching policy - Incumbents can't do 'beta' speeds available in specific areas, and not provide them to wholesale - FTTH not included.

I am glad about that don't get me wrong. I caught your earlier post that highlighted the "bone" that the CRTC threw us in this decision. I am very happy that Rogers can't play shadow games anymore with speeds that only available when calling in. We've both seen this practice for over a year now documented on the Rogers forum here at DSLR and that can now be brought to an end, and equality in the available speeds will be brought to TPIAs.

Now it will be interesting to see how TPIAs deal with it and if they even open the option to their customers.

Thanks Marc for the huge explanation literally a post below my rant, patience, patience.... :blush:
chrisl83
join:2011-06-21
Almonte, ON

chrisl83 to BACONATOR26

Member

to BACONATOR26
Ouch, I feel bad for Teksavvy

If I wasn't moving away in July I'd care more, but two family members will probably stay customers as they don't need the upload.

I'd like to start streaming on twitch tv, it's not possible with 1 megabit up.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to EHTL

Premium Member

to EHTL
said by EHTL:

Not matter how I setup the QoS, I couldn't get decent VoIP performance when I am bittorrenting with the currently 512k up. I hope 2M up will solve my problem. If TSI is not announcing their plan, soon, I will switch to Start.

And with evening service 'rush hour' on Rogers pathetic overloaded nodes, having higher uploads won't matter anyhow. You'll still get stuttering service due to node constraints until they fix that. This applies to all neighbourhoods.
da_guy2
join:2003-06-10
Kanata, ON

da_guy2 to BACONATOR26

Member

to BACONATOR26
I hate to sound selfish, but I don't think I can wait more than 2 or 3 months (and it doesn't sound like I'll see changes in that time frame). Not when there are viable, and affordable options from start.ca and electronicbox.net. Sorry to say but Teksavvy bet on delaying their transition to Aggregated and lost. Such is the will of the free market.
nitric
join:2012-01-29

nitric to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

said by TSI Marc:

we will likely look to migrate that specific POI sooner rather than later since otherwise they would need to build more facilities to accomodate it.. each POI has it's own set of specifics.

This is what we're sorting out still.

So, if you were to hazard a guess - which order are POI's likely to be converted to Aggregated, ie.
1) Bloor
2) Dupont
3) etc....

If you could provide this information - even if it's on a preliminary basis - I think it would cut down on the amount of carping.

It's probably correct to assume they'll go from downtown Toronto out. Highest population density and then spread outward from there. This is typically how most upgrades etc are pushed out.
The Mongoose
join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON

The Mongoose to da_guy2

Member

to da_guy2
said by da_guy2:

I hate to sound selfish, but I don't think I can wait more than 2 or 3 months (and it doesn't sound like I'll see changes in that time frame). Not when there are viable, and affordable options from start.ca and electronicbox.net. Sorry to say but Teksavvy bet on delaying their transition to Aggregated and lost. Such is the will of the free market.

They haven't lost. They stuck with distributed POI and will lose a few customers because of it. The vast majority don't know or care about the speed matching issues, and lots of those who do know will choose to wait it out.

Switching to Start is a perfectly reasonable option, but let's not pretend that just because a few very knowledgeable consumers might switch, it's the end of the world for TSI. If they lose more than 1-2% of their customer base because of this, I'd be shocked.
The Mongoose

The Mongoose to nitric

Member

to nitric
said by nitric:

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by TSI Marc:

we will likely look to migrate that specific POI sooner rather than later since otherwise they would need to build more facilities to accomodate it.. each POI has it's own set of specifics.

This is what we're sorting out still.

So, if you were to hazard a guess - which order are POI's likely to be converted to Aggregated, ie.
1) Bloor
2) Dupont
3) etc....

If you could provide this information - even if it's on a preliminary basis - I think it would cut down on the amount of carping.

It's probably correct to assume they'll go from downtown Toronto out. Highest population density and then spread outward from there. This is typically how most upgrades etc are pushed out.

I'm not so sure about that. If I were them I'd want to test the process on some smaller POIs before trying to scale it up to the big one where a failure in the transition process would affect a massive number of customers.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

HiVolt

Premium Member

said by The Mongoose:

I'm not so sure about that. If I were them I'd want to test the process on some smaller POIs before trying to scale it up to the big one where a failure in the transition process would affect a massive number of customers.

Well they said that they will turn up the Aggregated POI for all the areas they don't serve as of yet, then move onto migrating existing POI's one at a time.

PlatooN
join:2007-02-13
Kitchener, ON

PlatooN to TSI Marc

Member

to TSI Marc
this may seem like a simplistic approach but follow me here.

Since you have more links on order, and APOI is coming up very soon to cover the rest of the footprint. Is it not possible to cancel the new links on order and just start activating new subs (and maybe move a few subs to lower demand on current links) on the APOI gear?

It would seem like a more future looking approach than putting in more links (no doubt with contracts, and man hours attached to them) that will be redundant in 8 months?
da_guy2
join:2003-06-10
Kanata, ON

da_guy2 to HiVolt

Member

to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

said by The Mongoose:

I'm not so sure about that. If I were them I'd want to test the process on some smaller POIs before trying to scale it up to the big one where a failure in the transition process would affect a massive number of customers.

Well they said that they will turn up the Aggregated POI for all the areas they don't serve as of yet, then move onto migrating existing POI's one at a time.

ACTUALLY, if you read back somewhere, they said they will do areas they don't service followed by POI's that are currently at or over capacity. These could be small POI's that require a single extra link, or a big POI that would require multiple extra links. Last on the list will be POIs that have sufficient capacity and aren't expected to grow.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

1 recommendation

TSI Marc to HiVolt

Premium Member

to HiVolt
Mongoose is correct.. that' exactly what we've asked for.

We may look to try to accelerate things now that we know.. and i think also there's incentive for Rogers also to accelerate things since they're the ones that need to make those additional investments if not... and we'd rather not commit to more than we need to on the existing stuff if there's a way to avoid it..

All around all the motivational factors are all pointing in the right direction.
yabos
join:2003-02-16
London, ON

yabos to HiVolt

Member

to HiVolt
I think they should migrate London first

/no bias here

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc to PlatooN

Premium Member

to PlatooN
said by PlatooN:

this may seem like a simplistic approach but follow me here.

Since you have more links on order, and APOI is coming up very soon to cover the rest of the footprint. Is it not possible to cancel the new links on order and just start activating new subs (and maybe move a few subs to lower demand on current links) on the APOI gear?

It would seem like a more future looking approach than putting in more links (no doubt with contracts, and man hours attached to them) that will be redundant in 8 months?

Right. So the problem is that they need to build a 100+ gig network between the APOI head end and our POP at 151 Front.

In the mean time, we continue to signup more subs... its a bit of a similar situation to a year ago where everybody was saying stop selling... wait for more capacity... our ability to stop on a dim is very limited...

So the first 10gig links that are getting installed for ATPIA will be to light up all the "other POIs" and also one area. If I'm not mistaken the one that's been thrown around was in Ottawa. Dont hold me to that yet though.

After that it's a matter of adding more 10 gig links... and as we add more.. we migrate more.. but the thing is also that we already have 10 gig links.. so we need to migrate some over and as they get freed up.. we can migrate more to the existing 10 gig links as they get re-provisioned on Rogers end... its this whole shuffling of things around...

PlatooN
join:2007-02-13
Kitchener, ON

PlatooN

Member

said by TSI Marc:

said by PlatooN:

this may seem like a simplistic approach but follow me here.

Since you have more links on order, and APOI is coming up very soon to cover the rest of the footprint. Is it not possible to cancel the new links on order and just start activating new subs (and maybe move a few subs to lower demand on current links) on the APOI gear?

It would seem like a more future looking approach than putting in more links (no doubt with contracts, and man hours attached to them) that will be redundant in 8 months?

Right. So the problem is that they need to build a 100+ gig network between the APOI head end and our POP at 151 Front.

In the mean time, we continue to signup more subs... its a bit of a similar situation to a year ago where everybody was saying stop selling... wait for more capacity... our ability to stop on a dim is very limited...

So the first 10gig links that are getting installed for ATPIA will be to light up all the "other POIs" and also one area. If I'm not mistaken the one that's been thrown around was in Ottawa. Dont hold me to that yet though.

After that it's a matter of adding more 10 gig links... and as we add more.. we migrate more.. but the thing is also that we already have 10 gig links.. so we need to migrate some over and as they get freed up.. we can migrate more to the existing 10 gig links as they get re-provisioned on Rogers end... its this whole shuffling of things around...

yeah I hear you. I guess it's a matter of how the back end works. Once your inital APOI is online, do you have an options to add sub's to either APOI or POI?

If so I would immediately start signing up EVERYONE to APOI and just have rogers start building there. If an old POI gets overloaded, grab 15-20 high usage subs and move them over to free up load.

Granted it would require some active management of the situation but would (i ASSUME) result in some major cost savings over lighting up 20 or so gigE links that you will just turn off again in less than a year.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

no.. it's by geography/POI... a POI is either ATPIA or it's not... until it's migrated over.. everybody, new of existing gets the same *on that specific POI*.

PlatooN
join:2007-02-13
Kitchener, ON

PlatooN

Member

well that pretty much crushes that plan. Considering they're totally different infrastructures you would THINK you could do either or.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

well, it would mean adding a whole new set of IPs and routing back through their entire network...

the routers need to know to send it to the ATPIA path or the TPIA path.. only way to do that is to have different pools of IPs...
koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW
join:2005-01-08
Etobicoke, ON

koreyb to underubb

Member

to underubb
said by underubb :

lol; If we all move to start the switch to aggregated will be a lot faster/easier for TSI.

Not totally... less income tsi has, the less they will be able to afford to throw at this.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

said by TSI Marc:

well, it would mean adding a whole new set of IPs and routing back through their entire network...

the routers need to know to send it to the ATPIA path or the TPIA path.. only way to do that is to have different pools of IPs...

I guess more importantly.. we asked them to do that and they said they wouldn't or couldn't do it.. and frankly, I can understand it given the above.

Confused
@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

Confused to TSI Marc

Anon

to TSI Marc
Dear Marc,

I am giving you till December to make the switch to higher speeds. If you don't do that by then I will be switching to Start

Thanks
da_guy2
join:2003-06-10
Kanata, ON

da_guy2

Member

said by Confused :

Dear Marc,

I am giving you till December to make the switch to higher speeds. If you don't do that by then I will be switching to Start

Thanks

You can be guaranteed it will be by December. If they don't do it by November they get cut off.

TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium Member
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON

1 edit

TwiztedZero to HiVolt

Premium Member

to HiVolt
" Said to The Mongoose See Profile
said by HiVolt:

said by The Mongoose:

I'm not so sure about that. If I were them I'd want to test the process on some smaller POIs before trying to scale it up to the big one where a failure in the transition process would affect a massive number of customers.

Well they said that they will turn up the Aggregated POI for all the areas they don't serve as of yet, then move onto migrating existing POI's one at a time.

TSI Marc said earlier, out of the 50 Rogers POI's , they have 20 POI's in use. So the 30 they don't, will get moved to Aggreated POI first, then they'll migrate the smaller 20 POI's over following that with the more congested ones being given priority. Thats the geist of it.

Scroll back up and read the two bigger Posts that TSI Marc posted earlier in the thread for clarification. After a bit of thinking it'll start to make sense.
ry29
join:2010-05-12

ry29 to BACONATOR26

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I waited for over 2 years to move from 2.5mbps/800k dsl to 28/1 cable (to see how ubb played out, I had grandfathered dsl). I can wait until November 2013 for higher uploads.

It's not that far away.

Just remember that Start came in late in the game and had the advantage to go right to Aggregate. Without Tek cable, we would have either been on DSL or Robbers cable paying more for less.

Tek has my business now and for the future.
koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW
join:2005-01-08
Etobicoke, ON

koreyb to EHTL

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to EHTL
said by EHTL:

said by bt:

VoIP needs relatively little upstream, and every TPIA speed available (that I know of) has enough upstream for a single VoIP session.

If you're running multiple concurrent VoIP sessions, that may be different.

Not matter how I setup the QoS, I couldn't get decent VoIP performance when I am bittorrenting with the currently 512k up. I hope 2M up will solve my problem. If TSI is not announcing their plan, soon, I will switch to Start.

I use PFSENSE for my router, and have been able to set it to work very well with BT and voip on 512k up, but when someone uses the voipline, the drops BT huge! VOIP always has to get the most/highest priority.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc to Confused

Premium Member

to Confused
said by Confused :

Dear Marc,

I am giving you till December to make the switch to higher speeds. If you don't do that by then I will be switching to Start

Thanks

No problem. I have no doubt that we'll be done before then... the current CRTC ruling is that we have to be migrated by October I believe. Some could migrate as earlier as 1 to 1.5 months from now.

mike1questio
@teksavvy.com

mike1questio to da_guy2

Anon

to da_guy2
How do I knw if im elidgible for the 45/7 package that has been talked about in this thread? Any date when this should be availible from TSI approx this package is veryyy good. With 1mb upload my brother cant even use skype or teamviewer without maxing the upstream then lags my downstream to the point i start to freeze on fps games..
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to TSI Marc

Premium Member

to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

So the problem is that they need to build a 100+ gig network between the APOI head end and our POP at 151 Front.

So what's the due date for that? 2015??
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by TSI Marc:

So the problem is that they need to build a 100+ gig network between the APOI head end and our POP at 151 Front.

So what's the due date for that? 2015??

In the next few months, so that TSI can go Agg.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to TSI Marc

Premium Member

to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

So the problem is that they need to build a 100+ gig network between the APOI head end and our POP at 151 Front.

You mean they haven't built it yet? There's a CRTC requirement to cut off conventional POI's and they dont have the necessary infrastructure built?

Its nice that the TPIA's have a deadline but Rogers doesnt?

I have a feeling this wont be a smooth conversion.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

said by HiVolt:

said by TSI Marc:

So the problem is that they need to build a 100+ gig network between the APOI head end and our POP at 151 Front.

You mean they haven't built it yet? There's a CRTC requirement to cut off conventional POI's and they dont have the necessary infrastructure built?

Its nice that the TPIA's have a deadline but Rogers doesnt?

I have a feeling this wont be a smooth conversion.

Hum, this isn't rocket science.. we've been planning this with them. I dont see why it wouldn't go smoothly.