dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
27573
share rss forum feed


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to koreyb

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

said by koreyb:

....I know a lot of people with D2 modems.. almost every one has issues during peak.

My point was, D2 modems are obsolete, and to sell a D2 modem and the headache that comes with it to keep it working properly in highly populated areas especially, is not fair or right for lower tech customers.

It leaves very bad taste of the ISP, as most think this is an issue with the ISP, not the technology they are using. Look at these forums, and you will see this. Rogers refuses to give anyone over 15mb a d2 modem at this point, so it's time they do the same for the new speed tiers on TPIA.

You may not like it, but D2's days are over. Moving forward TSI knowing this is coming, should pick up a cheaper D3 modem like Acanac and others have, for people on a budget, but stop selling D2 - as well warn people with D2, they may experience slow downs during peak....

 
Hear, Hear !

I preach this sermon every chance that I get.

It is false economy for customers to save a few bucks up front by choosing a D2 modem, and ISPs should stop offering them, EVEN to folks who choose a lower speed tier and swear that they will never ask to upgrade.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by TwiztedZero:

Impatience is a good reason, if you have a terminal illness and are on your deathbed right this very moment.

Yeah, but the install....after 3 missed appointments by the tech ... will kill ya.

 
Either way, please accept my advance condolences.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by veriphone:

Marc,
Speaking of Cogeco ATPIA when can one sign up for that service, see available packages, speeds, etc.? I am in Cogeco territory and am very interested in the long delayed Cogeco deal....

Well that's the thing.. the CBB rates are completely retarded as they are now with Cogeco... so our ability to do up packages that make sense just isn't there. i.e. the packages I would make right now, you wouldn't want to buy them and I'd look bad just for offering them!

I mean.. I could offer our lower offering maybe....

 
[I have not read ahead after Page 11 to see whether this has already been answered - my apologies if it has.]

Marc, that's understandable, your reasons for holding back.

OTOH, if you DID right now bring to market some packages for GOUGEco areas, would the caps and prices still be better than whatever Cogeco's own retail plans are ?

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TwiztedZero

said by TwiztedZero:

Impatience is a good reason, if you have a terminal illness and are on your deathbed right this very moment.

Yeah, but the install....after 3 missed appointments by the tech ... will kill ya.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to Teddy Boom

Impatience is a good reason, if you have a terminal illness and are on your deathbed right this very moment.



Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

1 recommendation

reply to TwiztedZero

Hopefully people don't go crazy switching from one TPIA to another. It costs all the TPIAs a lot of money, and disrupts the network. Of course if you have good reasons, switch to whatever suits you best, but... impatience isn't a good reason
--
electronicsguru.ca



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to Tristan

- (9 months), and ATPIA transitions is allready underway, Feb/March according to Marc's statements in the other thread; though it'll be a while before we start seeing things on the customer end; plus we're waiting still for the CBB decision on the tariffs later this month or early next month. I'm confident we'll all be shunted over to ATPIA long before we're anywheres near November.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


Tristan

join:2006-09-10
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to mlerner

Not surprised about the decision. The speed-matching rules, as I understood them, were pretty clear, and as much as some/most people will hate it, this ruling was the correct ruling.

I'm glad Teksavvy and Rogers are working towards getting the aggregated POI's set up. November 15 2013 is still a fair ways away (10 months), and while many people will hang tight and stay with Teksavvy, lots will be leaving for iISP's using aggregated POI's to get the faster speeds sooner. Hopefully it happens sooner.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Kewjoe

said by Kewjoe:

My understanding is Teksavvy gained access to the 32 and 75 profiles recently but it's not worth upgrading the infrastructure to offer those speeds. Reason being the move to aggregate would make that investment mostly wasted.

This. Teksavvy is already in process of figuring the schedule with Rogers to convert everything to Aggregated, and following the new Capacity Based Billing rates which should be out sometime this month, Teksavvy may be more able to afford to offer the higher speeds without going broke.

As it is now, if someone were to purchase the 150/10 package on aggregated, Teksavvy wouldn't be able to come close to matching Rogers' price for it due to the ~$1200/100mbps price on capacity.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Kewjoe

join:2002-04-14
North York, ON
reply to Cranky_bob

My understanding is Teksavvy gained access to the 32 and 75 profiles recently but it's not worth upgrading the infrastructure to offer those speeds. Reason being the move to aggregate would make that investment mostly wasted.



Cranky_bob

@uottawa.ca
reply to TSI Marc

I don't understand the speed changes after aggregate, who currently has 32, or 75 download with teksavvy, i thought their highest package is 28/1 which is what i have. How does one get access to the 32 or 75 service?


londoner1

join:2007-04-26
London, ON
reply to resa1983

Sorry I should have read my post prior to posting...I replied to a post from Marc stating that the CBB decision that is outstanding is one that they and other independent ISP's are eagerly awaiting


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to londoner1

said by londoner1:

When is this decision expected?

Would you have a link to the CRTC website on the open 'issue'

Its out already.
Denied.
The only good thing is that Rogers (and now all incumbents) have to file download and upload speeds in Tariffs, and Rogers has to file tariffs for all optional speed packages - ie 45/7 they weren't offering TPIA in already upgraded areas.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

londoner1

join:2007-04-26
London, ON
reply to TSI Marc

When is this decision expected?

Would you have a link to the CRTC website on the open 'issue'


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to travisc

said by travisc:

the reality is they're very likely not losing money.

Like any infrastructure investment of this nature, it does take ~15 years to get a return on investment so I'm guessing people who say Google is selling "at a loss" are forgetting about that.

Infrastructure is a labor-intensive long-term investment. There will be profit (unless Google screw themselves), it is just 10-15 years down the road.

If someone considers only the early months of infrastructure investments then every significant infrastructure investment ever made will look like colossal "losses" since the rewards are out of the time frame being looked at.


travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON
reply to mlerner

As a public company, Google can't just claim it's not being sold at a loss when it is. There are securities regulations that would cause them big problems for doing such a thing. I know the tinfoil hatters would like to believe their own nonsense that it's a giant conspiracy to steal your information, the reality is they're very likely not losing money.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to jmck

said by jmck:

again it's benefitting them to say it's not being sold at a loss. assuming it is then it's likely being sold at an even cost which isn't proving anything.

At $70/month with no speed guarantees, I think it is pretty safe to conclude that they will eventually be making a fair profit on it. Similar service in Hong Kong costs as little as $35/month and in Japan you can have it for ~$50/month in some areas.

As far as KC "funding" Google Fiber, the only conditions Google had were free access to easements and the city generally staying out of Google's way. Local incumbents did try to have GF shut down by saying free easement was an unfair advantage.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to mlerner

The city owns all the right of ways, and has allowed Google access to all the poles and such for free.

They're essentially giving Google Carte Blanche.

Those who want google fiber installed pay for it. for the free 5mbps, you pay $300 to install. If you go on a monthly plan, they waive the install fee.

They're also getting money from the neighbourhood 'rallies' (people vote on which neighbourhood gets it next). To sign up to vote costs $10.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

Google is on the record as saying it's not being sold at a loss.

again it's benefitting them to say it's not being sold at a loss. assuming it is then it's likely being sold at an even cost which isn't proving anything.

the big cost from fiber to the home is the installation/last mile infrastructure (not the actual bandwidth) and the install fee cannot cover that. it could be that city of KC or some other org is funding it and Google isn't counting that as their 'cost'.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Guspaz

Unless they reveal all the costs associated with rolling out fiber on poles, running the into homes, installing in home, building their edge ip network, etc., it is simply just their word saying its not being sold at a loss.

And like other companies, they just reveal total profits for the company in financial reports, so those don't indicate much. Google's primary business is mining data, selling that data to advertisers and selling space to advertisers.

Look no further then Google's Android OS, they developed it and then just give it away to OEMs.

Comparing Google's fibre project in Kansas city to convential ISPs is not really is like comparing apples to oranges. I predict the Google's fibre rolling out to the masses to fizzle like Verizon's FIOS did when it first arrived in the States many, many years ago.
--
[img] »/im/103954564/64554.png [/img]



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to jmck

Google is on the record as saying it's not being sold at a loss.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
reply to Dones

while this isn't really the thread for it, Google is selling it at a loss and generally all their products at a loss too as long as it enables them to collect data off you and sell it or feed you ads.

they also are very interested in disrupting current broadband markets in the US and likely just using it as a scare tactic.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Dones

said by Dones:

Holy shit! Makes you wonder how Google is offering 1Gb for $70. That Google fibre sounds sexy.

Google Fiber is 1Gbps only between the subscriber and Google's edge equipment. Beyond that, speeds vary wildly and even more so if you go beyond Google's own network.

Not quite the same provisioning burden as aggregated or dedicated links where ISPs and clients usually expect to be able to push links to full speed at any time of day for however long they need.

High speeds are much cheaper to offer when they come with minimal (if any) performance guarantees.


Dones

join:2008-02-14
Toronto, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by 34764170:

Last time I checked $8k/Gbps is much cheaper than $26k/$22k/Gbps...

Cheaper, yes. But still nowhere near as cheap as the 1-2k$/Gbps many people here are hoping for and 8k$/Gbps is near the optimistic end of my guess range.

Holy shit! Makes you wonder how Google is offering 1Gb for $70. That Google fibre sounds sexy.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

Last time I checked $8k/Gbps is much cheaper than $26k/$22k/Gbps...

Cheaper, yes. But still nowhere near as cheap as the 1-2k$/Gbps many people here are hoping for and 8k$/Gbps is near the optimistic end of my guess range.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

said by InvalidError:

With the much more efficient "packing" by aggregating everything on 10G links instead of individual 1Gbps virtual circuits, TSI would likely be able to get away with somewhat fewer 10G links than what their projected total of 1G links would dictate. They only need to aim for equal or more if most of their 1G links happen to frequently hit their peaks at the same time, which should be very uncommon.

There is no point in reducing the amount of capacity between TSI and Rogers when they'll end up just going up to that level of required capacity very quickly anyway, especially with the increased coverage and the new speed tiers.

I'm inclined to concurr on this assessment.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by NBomb:

When's the CBB decision due, anyway?

There is no due date or anything..

But a bunch of us have been hearing rumors that it'll be out by end of Feb.

Supposed to be in 2012-2013 for what appears to be the 703 file
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/backgrnd/plan2012.htm

And a review of costing for wholesale in 2013-2014 (file #??).

Ref:
»Re: The end of ####?

So I think the best we came up with, with those in the "know" and what we regular pee-ons know, was 703 being looked at in Nov-Dec-Jan with some sort of ruling coming out in Jan-Feb.

With Bell giving unlimited all of a sudden after calling their customers thieves (more or less), seems to me they may have advanced knowledge that this is completed, the decision rendered, and now just waiting for it to be released.

Best guess.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

With the much more efficient "packing" by aggregating everything on 10G links instead of individual 1Gbps virtual circuits, TSI would likely be able to get away with somewhat fewer 10G links than what their projected total of 1G links would dictate. They only need to aim for equal or more if most of their 1G links happen to frequently hit their peaks at the same time, which should be very uncommon.

There is no point in reducing the amount of capacity between TSI and Rogers when they'll end up just going up to that level of required capacity very quickly anyway, especially with the increased coverage and the new speed tiers.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

As for the CBB R&V, I would not expect rates to go lower than 8k$/Gbps... at least not without some of the costs getting shuffled back into the per-sub access fees.

Last time I checked $8k/Gbps is much cheaper than $26k/$22k/Gbps...


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by NBomb:

When's the CBB decision due, anyway?

There is no due date or anything..

But a bunch of us have been hearing rumors that it'll be out by end of Feb.

2013?



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged